8 ms·

The absolute horror of WiFi light switches

89 points by edent 11y ago

Klathmon 11y ago
TL;DR: Someone buys cheap no-name brand chinese light switches and is surprised when they don't include instructions, have poor security, and don't work very well or at all. I see these kinds of "IOT hate" articles on HN a lot recently, and most of them are judging an industry based on the cheapest and worst quality parts.
- edent 11y ago
  Well, I don't consider £50 (US$70, €65) to be particularly cheap. They're certainly more expensive than some of the competition (http://www.wifiplug.co.uk/wifiplug-glass.html http://www.wifiplug.co.uk/wifiplug-glass.html). If you can find me a more expensive and/or higher quality switch - I'll gladly buy and review it.
  - delinka 11y ago
    "Inexpensive" and "cheap" are not synonymous. I've experienced plenty of cheap things with a high price, and it produces the perception that the entire industry is terrible.
    - frobozz 11y ago
      I've never seen a thesaurus that agrees with you.
      - roymurdock 11y ago
        He/she is talking about cheap (quality) vs. inexpensive (cost) - to put it another way, poor-quality items can be expensive.
      - stephenhuey 11y ago
        The OS X Dictionary app's thesaurus lists "poor-quality" and "low-grade" and "shoddy" as synonyms of cheap. Merriam Webster's online dictionary gives this for definition 3a of cheap: "of inferior quality or worth" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheap http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheap
        frobozz 11y ago
        Both of the sources you cite list "inexpensive" as a synonym of "cheap", and vice versa. In fact, I've just looked at the OSX app, and "CHEAP" is the first word after the context in the "inexpensive" entry, and "INEXPENSIVE" is the first word after the context in the "cheap" entry. http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/inexpensive http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/inexpensive http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/cheap http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/cheap
        Sanddancer 11y ago
        Yes, in some contexts, they're synonymous. However, they tend to have different connotations. Inexpensive usually implies low in cost, but of reasonable quality. Cheap tends to imply low in cost, and low quality. For example, someone cheaping out on a part.
        frobozz 11y ago
        Yes, but apart from the case of a low quality and cost item ending up more expensive in the long run because of replacements and high maintenance costs; it doesn't tend to mean high in cost,low in quality. The relationship between the words,in the sense you describe, is hypo/hypernymy. My original comment was in response to an apparent claim that the two words are entirely unrelated.
        jvickers 11y ago
        Things can indeed be both cheap and expensive. It takes two different perspectives, both being correct in their own right, and not directly contradicting each other. There can be different ways of looking at the cost of an item: 1) The cost of the parts and manufacture. 2) The retail price. An item could be cheap from perspective 1 and expensive from perspective 2.
- SixSigma 11y ago
  When visiting one's parents, one has to be ready for products like this.
- CaptSpify 11y ago
  To be fair, even the best IoT devices are pretty terrible. I'm very pro "computerization of everything", and hate most things marked as IoT.
- Zigurd 11y ago
  Indeed. I was just now commenting on another thread about how smart homes are shit. The problem is that smart homes work, just not if you can't afford custom professional installation and maintenance. J. Random Blogger can't afford a smart home that works, can't afford to upgrade it, and hasn't got the right use cases, like a large home with a security system, telephone/intercom system, media room, multi-car garage, pool, etc.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- marssaxman 11y ago
  It's difficult to see how such a device could avoid being terrible even if it weren't "cheapest and worst quality".
rlpb 11y ago
Traditional light switches have evolved to have the perfect UX (within their scope). I can tell the state of the switch from its physical position and it has a nice click when switching to give me instant and appropriate tactile feedback. Losing this is a step backwards. For me, this device would be a downgrade even if it worked well. I understand that the state of the switch might end up wrong, but we already have that in standard 2-way switches. Ultimately, perhaps we'll see mechanical switches that can also move themselves. You can get both Z-Wave and Insteon switch inserts that continue using the existing physical switch but also relay the switch position to a controller. I plan to use these instead. I like Insteon's dual bus system (RF and also encoded into the lighting circuit itself) but it doesn't have encryption. Z-Wave has encryption but I don't know how good it is. So I haven't decided between the two yet.
- edent 11y ago
  That's very true. The switches I reviewed had good "click" when pressed and used an LED to indicate state. I did look at Z-Wave switches, but it seems they also need a neutral wire. Perhaps I'll just hire a servant to turn things on and off for me. Uber for electrical switches...
  - delinka 11y ago
    "...LED to indicate state." This will not do when I'm trying to sleep in a darkened room.
    - edent 11y ago
      Actually, I think on that specific switch it was the other way round. Personally I'd have preferred your scenario - because it means I can always find the switch.
    - jagger27 11y ago
      I would be okay with a dim orange LED. I already sleep with several idle LEDs on so one more won't hurt.
    - 11y ago
rvense 11y ago
I still struggle to understand why this is worth the trouble even if it did work. Maybe if you were a head in a jar living a life of quiet dignity like in Futurama. But you're not. You want to turn the lights on you go flick the switch. What's the problem?
- edent 11y ago
  I'm really pleased you don't have any mobility problems. But for those of us who sometimes struggle to get from one side of the room to the other, it makes a world of difference to be able control things locally. Or set up timers. Or make the lights flash when there's a phone call.
- Klathmon 11y ago
  Well we've had remotes for TVs since the 50s Is it really that big of a leap to have other things be remote controlled? I feel like every day I want the light turned on while i'm at my desk. Or i remember that i forgot to turn out the living room light when i'm in bed. Or when a friend texts me and i'd like to turn on the outside light for them. Yeah, it's not a cure for cancer, but it's not useless either.
- xlayn 11y ago
  >Maybe if you were a head in a jar living a life of quiet dignity like in Futurama People like comfort, a friend of mine says that we come to earth to fight against pain (or discomfort). There are practical scenarios that you would like to consider, -e.g. you are on your way to the kitchen and lights turn on on your way -(not sure if we have a product with this feature but) turn the temperature of lightning as it becomes night a la f.lux -Wake you up with lights On the other hand even then with the exception of light temperature I would not consider it price/feature ratio worthy.
  - raldi 11y ago
    Or you just have a room with two entrances, and you want to be able to toggle the lights without having to walk across the room in the dark.
dfc 11y ago
I skipped to the section that is titled "Decompiling the Software" hoping for something interesting. Spoiler alert the author "was too scared to port scan the light switch." These IoT rage posts are starting to get monotonous. There should be a law against that many "pull quotes" from your twitter account.
- joshuaheard 11y ago
  Ha, and he was quoting himself. Why not just say it. I felt like I was switching back and forth between an alternate reality.
Ixiaus 11y ago
We don't have a 220v version of the Plum Lightpad, otherwise I would offer to send one to you, but not all "smart" switches are quite as bad as your experience. We've done our best to focus on build quality, security, and usefulness (we do need a neutral though).
- edent 11y ago
  Yours do look lovely. Might get an electrician to give me a quote on rewiring some of the switches. Either that or move to the USA ;-)
  - ValentineC 11y ago
    You could alternatively use a stepdown transformer, I suppose.
    - edent 11y ago
      Bit hard to squeeze into a light switch :-)
  - Ixiaus 11y ago
    Thanks, we've bled a lot to get this product built :-p If you do want one I can give you a discount coupon (my email is in my profile).
- ValentineC 11y ago
  This reminds me of another problem with home automation: there's plenty of cool devices produced in the US that I'm not able to use in a 240V country, because of the voltage difference. I recently bought a Hue starter kit, but I'm having trouble finding affordable white (4000K-5000K colour temperature) bulbs that are rated for 240V and have Zigbee Lightlink support.
  - Ixiaus 11y ago
    We have a lot of backers waiting on a European compatible version but it's a classic startup story for us: funding is the limitation. It requires a different power board in our product, which we're totally capable of designing, but the cost of maintaining those two versions, the cost and time to certify, and getting the contract manufacturer spun up for it is quite a hurdle in terms of bandwidth and money for us. I believe we're aiming at building a European version once we've closed our Series A.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- tshtf 11y ago
  Your linked article is from 2013. This feature is in Android 6.0.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
RRRA 11y ago
Ubnt mFi gives you root access over ssh, a rest API and a web page that'll probably work from your phone... They're not perfect, but damn, we should stop treating IoT devices like closed crap that'll never get updated and they at least try...
- andrewpe 11y ago
  Another +1 for Ubnt mFi. I'm running 2 of them in my apartment for the last 3 months with no problems.
  - edent 11y ago
    Sadly they don't seem suitable for UK voltages.
orestes910 11y ago
While pricey, the Hue Tap seems to be a good middle ground. Its powered by the press of the button itself, so no wiring needs to take place. Pair, stick it onto a wall, and then you have 3 light switches ready to go.
- sundaeofshock 11y ago
  As an owner of Hue lights, I can unequivocally state that the Tap sucks. I have all sorts of alarms and geofences so that my lights turn off and on with little or no manual intervention, so the Tap might get used only a few times a week. Since the device didn't hold much of a charge, I would have to tap it multiple times before it responded. The damn thing also turned out to be pretty flimsy; it just plain stopped working after about 6 months.
  - bergie 11y ago
    Though, in my experience the geofencing stuff works pretty badly if you have multiple devices connected to Hue (so, have multiple people living in the same flat). The lights would turn off when one person leaves, even though others are still inside. Kind of same thing with alarms: they would turn lights on to dim them when nobody's home, etc
  - tyleo 11y ago
    Interesting. I have about 10 Hue Taps in my house. The nice thing about this is that I was able to gauge the performance of each switch against the others. In my experience, some of the switches work better than others. The poor ones can be so bad that they are borderline useless while the good ones function more or less like a standard light switch. I returned and replaced all of my finicky switches. I recommend that you do the same if you are experiencing issues.
raldi 11y ago
> The UK has a unique way of wiring houses which doesn't lend itself well to automated control. I never heard of this. Does anyone know what it refers to? Edit: Free karma points for anyone who sketches ASCII art diagrams of the replies! The links are nice, but none of them show how switches and lightbulbs work in ring vs radial.
- nakedrobot2 11y ago
  It might be referring to the "daisy chain" wiring, which means that every plug has the fuse inside the actual plug itself. This is why UK plugs are so huge. The reason for this is after WWII there was a copper shortage and it was cheaper to wire houses this way.
- AlgorithmicTime 11y ago
  I believe the UK uses ring circuits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit
- pjc50 11y ago
  Neutral is not usually present at the switch, which makes it hard to power things. There is a lighting ring main through the lights, and each switch is a spur that gets "live" and "to lightbulb". Whereas it looks like other countries run power to the switches, and then to the light. Edit for diagrams: http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power-feed-via-light/ http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power... ("UK") versus http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power-feed-via-switch/ http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power... (neutral at switch, suitable for powering other electronics)
  - raldi 11y ago
    Okay, I think I get it. They're both electrically equivalent to this circuit: White main --- Bulb ----+ | Black main --- Switch --+ But "equivalent circuits" are not actually equivalent when you're an electrician. It makes a big practical difference whether the main goes to the bulb, with the switch as a spur (UK), or whether the main goes to the switch, with the bulb as a spur (US and others). P.S. Everybody please give pjc50 the karma I promised.
fit2rule 11y ago
Here's the (open) User Manual for the MagicShifter3000, which is an open-source wifi-controlled light synthesizer: https://github.com/magicshifter/MS3000/wiki/UserManual https://github.com/magicshifter/MS3000/wiki/UserManual You can use the MagicShifter3000 as a remote-controlled LED light .. among other things. More details here: http://magicshifter.net/ http://magicshifter.net/
api 11y ago
I bet someone in China can turn off your lights now. Am I the only one who sees this as a degradation? IoT will hit it's stride when it moves beyond "put a chip in it." The killer apps will be entirely new things impossible to build without chips, not chips in old things that work perfectly fine already.
skoczymroczny 11y ago
https://twitter.com/internetofshit https://twitter.com/internetofshit
mdip 11y ago
I've got a couple of these WiFi switches (different brands and configuration) and most of them are variants of the Broadlink SP1/SP2 switches/plugs. They work by sending UDP packets between the device and the app, either over the internet (Ankuoo attaches to AWS hosts in the US and EU) or on the local network segment. The AWS host is used for time sync and to allow internet control of devices behind NAT firewalls. I've traced the packets and they're pretty benign (though I haven't grabbed the traffic of the initial "connect it to the network" part, so there may be scary bits there). The packets are UDP port 80 and the most frequent is the sending of the device MAC and IP/Port to AWS which is replied to with the same packet and the server's time appended. As best I can tell, no encryption is used anywhere, however, the reply to a Device Query command contains data I can't make any sense of so part of it might be encrypted. The devices have a 4-byte code associated which appears to be used by a method in the firmware that looks to be creating an AES key and doing an AES-CBC encryption/decryption, but other than that Device Query command, the other packets are easy to parse and have no encrypted parts, so I'm not sure where that's actually used, yet. The traffic between the different brands is extremely similar, varying mostly only by the hosts they contact and the first 32-bytes of each packet which I believe is a key identifying the variant of the Broadlink based device so that the different apps don't pick up devices that aren't meant for them (since capabilities of each vary, as well). The Ankuoo device has two ports open, one on port 80 and one other, UDP way up in the user ports, that I can't figure out. They listen on UDP port 80 for everything. The other device brand has an http web service exposed, as well, which makes interacting with it a lot easier, but adds one more attack vector. Though the lack of encryption bothers me, these devices are also completely proprietary, very cheap and lack any API or any way to work with any home automation solutions other than their apps, so the fact that it's unprotected is allowing me to easily write a plug-in to tie these in with my home automation tools. My plan is to block them from communicating with the internet and replace their heartbeat packets with replies from a local host. They're already running on a separate wireless network that's isolated from my home network and all but the hosts they contact. I did this because of another ugly limitation: the devices all require your network be WPA-PSK (or WEP, I assume). WPA2 is not supported and the passphrase has a maximum length of 32 characters. When I do this, the (worthless) apps will stop working but since I'm tying into my home automation solution, that's no issue from where I sit. As for the neutral wire, it's purpose is pretty obvious when you think about it: The neutral wire is required to power the switch when the switch is turned off. Without it, there's no current going to the switch and therefore nothing to power the device -- bye, bye WiFi connection. My house was built in the 1980s and includes neutral wires in all of the switches. Whether or not a house has neutral wires, though, seems to be pretty random. Since a lot of switches include LEDs for making finding the switch easier in the dark (though many are battery powered), a lot of house wiring includes the neutral wire to some/all switches. Code in my area requires it for new wiring and I assume that's common, but my parent's house built in the late 90s lacks the neutral wire in the switches I looked at. I'm a little surprised they didn't include this in bold lettering in the listing, but if you do a bit of home wiring you'd assume this limitation was there, anyway.
adysan 11y ago
Regarding that fake CE (China Export) mark https://twitter.com/StudioBezombie/status/703039494975414273 https://twitter.com/StudioBezombie/status/703039494975414273

89 points by edent 11y ago

TL;DR: Someone buys cheap no-name brand chinese light switches and is surprised when they don't include instructions, have poor security, and don't work very well or at all. I see these kinds of "IOT hate" articles on HN a lot recently, and most of them are judging an industry based on the cheapest and worst quality parts.

edent 11y ago
Well, I don't consider £50 (US$70, €65) to be particularly cheap. They're certainly more expensive than some of the competition (http://www.wifiplug.co.uk/wifiplug-glass.html http://www.wifiplug.co.uk/wifiplug-glass.html). If you can find me a more expensive and/or higher quality switch - I'll gladly buy and review it.
- delinka 11y ago
  "Inexpensive" and "cheap" are not synonymous. I've experienced plenty of cheap things with a high price, and it produces the perception that the entire industry is terrible.
  - frobozz 11y ago
    I've never seen a thesaurus that agrees with you.
    - roymurdock 11y ago
      He/she is talking about cheap (quality) vs. inexpensive (cost) - to put it another way, poor-quality items can be expensive.
    - stephenhuey 11y ago
      The OS X Dictionary app's thesaurus lists "poor-quality" and "low-grade" and "shoddy" as synonyms of cheap. Merriam Webster's online dictionary gives this for definition 3a of cheap: "of inferior quality or worth" http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheap http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheap
      - frobozz 11y ago
        Both of the sources you cite list "inexpensive" as a synonym of "cheap", and vice versa. In fact, I've just looked at the OSX app, and "CHEAP" is the first word after the context in the "inexpensive" entry, and "INEXPENSIVE" is the first word after the context in the "cheap" entry. http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/inexpensive http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/inexpensive http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/cheap http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/cheap
        Sanddancer 11y ago
        Yes, in some contexts, they're synonymous. However, they tend to have different connotations. Inexpensive usually implies low in cost, but of reasonable quality. Cheap tends to imply low in cost, and low quality. For example, someone cheaping out on a part.
        frobozz 11y ago
        Yes, but apart from the case of a low quality and cost item ending up more expensive in the long run because of replacements and high maintenance costs; it doesn't tend to mean high in cost,low in quality. The relationship between the words,in the sense you describe, is hypo/hypernymy. My original comment was in response to an apparent claim that the two words are entirely unrelated.
        jvickers 11y ago
        Things can indeed be both cheap and expensive. It takes two different perspectives, both being correct in their own right, and not directly contradicting each other. There can be different ways of looking at the cost of an item: 1) The cost of the parts and manufacture. 2) The retail price. An item could be cheap from perspective 1 and expensive from perspective 2.
SixSigma 11y ago
When visiting one's parents, one has to be ready for products like this.
CaptSpify 11y ago
To be fair, even the best IoT devices are pretty terrible. I'm very pro "computerization of everything", and hate most things marked as IoT.
Zigurd 11y ago
Indeed. I was just now commenting on another thread about how smart homes are shit. The problem is that smart homes work, just not if you can't afford custom professional installation and maintenance. J. Random Blogger can't afford a smart home that works, can't afford to upgrade it, and hasn't got the right use cases, like a large home with a security system, telephone/intercom system, media room, multi-car garage, pool, etc.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
marssaxman 11y ago
It's difficult to see how such a device could avoid being terrible even if it weren't "cheapest and worst quality".

rlpb 11y ago

Traditional light switches have evolved to have the perfect UX (within their scope). I can tell the state of the switch from its physical position and it has a nice click when switching to give me instant and appropriate tactile feedback. Losing this is a step backwards. For me, this device would be a downgrade even if it worked well. I understand that the state of the switch might end up wrong, but we already have that in standard 2-way switches. Ultimately, perhaps we'll see mechanical switches that can also move themselves. You can get both Z-Wave and Insteon switch inserts that continue using the existing physical switch but also relay the switch position to a controller. I plan to use these instead. I like Insteon's dual bus system (RF and also encoded into the lighting circuit itself) but it doesn't have encryption. Z-Wave has encryption but I don't know how good it is. So I haven't decided between the two yet.

edent 11y ago
That's very true. The switches I reviewed had good "click" when pressed and used an LED to indicate state. I did look at Z-Wave switches, but it seems they also need a neutral wire. Perhaps I'll just hire a servant to turn things on and off for me. Uber for electrical switches...
- delinka 11y ago
  "...LED to indicate state." This will not do when I'm trying to sleep in a darkened room.
  - edent 11y ago
    Actually, I think on that specific switch it was the other way round. Personally I'd have preferred your scenario - because it means I can always find the switch.
  - jagger27 11y ago
    I would be okay with a dim orange LED. I already sleep with several idle LEDs on so one more won't hurt.
  - 11y ago

rvense 11y ago

I still struggle to understand why this is worth the trouble even if it did work. Maybe if you were a head in a jar living a life of quiet dignity like in Futurama. But you're not. You want to turn the lights on you go flick the switch. What's the problem?

edent 11y ago
I'm really pleased you don't have any mobility problems. But for those of us who sometimes struggle to get from one side of the room to the other, it makes a world of difference to be able control things locally. Or set up timers. Or make the lights flash when there's a phone call.
Klathmon 11y ago
Well we've had remotes for TVs since the 50s Is it really that big of a leap to have other things be remote controlled? I feel like every day I want the light turned on while i'm at my desk. Or i remember that i forgot to turn out the living room light when i'm in bed. Or when a friend texts me and i'd like to turn on the outside light for them. Yeah, it's not a cure for cancer, but it's not useless either.
xlayn 11y ago
>Maybe if you were a head in a jar living a life of quiet dignity like in Futurama People like comfort, a friend of mine says that we come to earth to fight against pain (or discomfort). There are practical scenarios that you would like to consider, -e.g. you are on your way to the kitchen and lights turn on on your way -(not sure if we have a product with this feature but) turn the temperature of lightning as it becomes night a la f.lux -Wake you up with lights On the other hand even then with the exception of light temperature I would not consider it price/feature ratio worthy.
- raldi 11y ago
  Or you just have a room with two entrances, and you want to be able to toggle the lights without having to walk across the room in the dark.

dfc 11y ago

I skipped to the section that is titled "Decompiling the Software" hoping for something interesting. Spoiler alert the author "was too scared to port scan the light switch." These IoT rage posts are starting to get monotonous. There should be a law against that many "pull quotes" from your twitter account.

joshuaheard 11y ago
Ha, and he was quoting himself. Why not just say it. I felt like I was switching back and forth between an alternate reality.

Ixiaus 11y ago

We don't have a 220v version of the Plum Lightpad, otherwise I would offer to send one to you, but not all "smart" switches are quite as bad as your experience. We've done our best to focus on build quality, security, and usefulness (we do need a neutral though).

edent 11y ago
Yours do look lovely. Might get an electrician to give me a quote on rewiring some of the switches. Either that or move to the USA ;-)
- ValentineC 11y ago
  You could alternatively use a stepdown transformer, I suppose.
  - edent 11y ago
    Bit hard to squeeze into a light switch :-)
- Ixiaus 11y ago
  Thanks, we've bled a lot to get this product built :-p If you do want one I can give you a discount coupon (my email is in my profile).
ValentineC 11y ago
This reminds me of another problem with home automation: there's plenty of cool devices produced in the US that I'm not able to use in a 240V country, because of the voltage difference. I recently bought a Hue starter kit, but I'm having trouble finding affordable white (4000K-5000K colour temperature) bulbs that are rated for 240V and have Zigbee Lightlink support.
- Ixiaus 11y ago
  We have a lot of backers waiting on a European compatible version but it's a classic startup story for us: funding is the limitation. It requires a different power board in our product, which we're totally capable of designing, but the cost of maintaining those two versions, the cost and time to certify, and getting the contract manufacturer spun up for it is quite a hurdle in terms of bandwidth and money for us. I believe we're aiming at building a European version once we've closed our Series A.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

tshtf 11y ago
Your linked article is from 2013. This feature is in Android 6.0.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

RRRA 11y ago

Ubnt mFi gives you root access over ssh, a rest API and a web page that'll probably work from your phone... They're not perfect, but damn, we should stop treating IoT devices like closed crap that'll never get updated and they at least try...

andrewpe 11y ago
Another +1 for Ubnt mFi. I'm running 2 of them in my apartment for the last 3 months with no problems.
- edent 11y ago
  Sadly they don't seem suitable for UK voltages.

orestes910 11y ago

While pricey, the Hue Tap seems to be a good middle ground. Its powered by the press of the button itself, so no wiring needs to take place. Pair, stick it onto a wall, and then you have 3 light switches ready to go.

sundaeofshock 11y ago
As an owner of Hue lights, I can unequivocally state that the Tap sucks. I have all sorts of alarms and geofences so that my lights turn off and on with little or no manual intervention, so the Tap might get used only a few times a week. Since the device didn't hold much of a charge, I would have to tap it multiple times before it responded. The damn thing also turned out to be pretty flimsy; it just plain stopped working after about 6 months.
- bergie 11y ago
  Though, in my experience the geofencing stuff works pretty badly if you have multiple devices connected to Hue (so, have multiple people living in the same flat). The lights would turn off when one person leaves, even though others are still inside. Kind of same thing with alarms: they would turn lights on to dim them when nobody's home, etc
- tyleo 11y ago
  Interesting. I have about 10 Hue Taps in my house. The nice thing about this is that I was able to gauge the performance of each switch against the others. In my experience, some of the switches work better than others. The poor ones can be so bad that they are borderline useless while the good ones function more or less like a standard light switch. I returned and replaced all of my finicky switches. I recommend that you do the same if you are experiencing issues.

raldi 11y ago

> The UK has a unique way of wiring houses which doesn't lend itself well to automated control. I never heard of this. Does anyone know what it refers to? Edit: Free karma points for anyone who sketches ASCII art diagrams of the replies! The links are nice, but none of them show how switches and lightbulbs work in ring vs radial.

nakedrobot2 11y ago
It might be referring to the "daisy chain" wiring, which means that every plug has the fuse inside the actual plug itself. This is why UK plugs are so huge. The reason for this is after WWII there was a copper shortage and it was cheaper to wire houses this way.
AlgorithmicTime 11y ago
I believe the UK uses ring circuits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit
pjc50 11y ago
Neutral is not usually present at the switch, which makes it hard to power things. There is a lighting ring main through the lights, and each switch is a spur that gets "live" and "to lightbulb". Whereas it looks like other countries run power to the switches, and then to the light. Edit for diagrams: http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power-feed-via-light/ http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power... ("UK") versus http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power-feed-via-switch/ http://www.howtowirealightswitch.com/2-way-switch-with-power... (neutral at switch, suitable for powering other electronics)
- raldi 11y ago
  Okay, I think I get it. They're both electrically equivalent to this circuit: White main --- Bulb ----+ | Black main --- Switch --+ But "equivalent circuits" are not actually equivalent when you're an electrician. It makes a big practical difference whether the main goes to the bulb, with the switch as a spur (UK), or whether the main goes to the switch, with the bulb as a spur (US and others). P.S. Everybody please give pjc50 the karma I promised.

fit2rule 11y ago

Here's the (open) User Manual for the MagicShifter3000, which is an open-source wifi-controlled light synthesizer: https://github.com/magicshifter/MS3000/wiki/UserManual https://github.com/magicshifter/MS3000/wiki/UserManual You can use the MagicShifter3000 as a remote-controlled LED light .. among other things. More details here: http://magicshifter.net/ http://magicshifter.net/

api 11y ago

I bet someone in China can turn off your lights now. Am I the only one who sees this as a degradation? IoT will hit it's stride when it moves beyond "put a chip in it." The killer apps will be entirely new things impossible to build without chips, not chips in old things that work perfectly fine already.

skoczymroczny 11y ago

https://twitter.com/internetofshit https://twitter.com/internetofshit

mdip 11y ago

I've got a couple of these WiFi switches (different brands and configuration) and most of them are variants of the Broadlink SP1/SP2 switches/plugs. They work by sending UDP packets between the device and the app, either over the internet (Ankuoo attaches to AWS hosts in the US and EU) or on the local network segment. The AWS host is used for time sync and to allow internet control of devices behind NAT firewalls. I've traced the packets and they're pretty benign (though I haven't grabbed the traffic of the initial "connect it to the network" part, so there may be scary bits there). The packets are UDP port 80 and the most frequent is the sending of the device MAC and IP/Port to AWS which is replied to with the same packet and the server's time appended. As best I can tell, no encryption is used anywhere, however, the reply to a Device Query command contains data I can't make any sense of so part of it might be encrypted. The devices have a 4-byte code associated which appears to be used by a method in the firmware that looks to be creating an AES key and doing an AES-CBC encryption/decryption, but other than that Device Query command, the other packets are easy to parse and have no encrypted parts, so I'm not sure where that's actually used, yet. The traffic between the different brands is extremely similar, varying mostly only by the hosts they contact and the first 32-bytes of each packet which I believe is a key identifying the variant of the Broadlink based device so that the different apps don't pick up devices that aren't meant for them (since capabilities of each vary, as well). The Ankuoo device has two ports open, one on port 80 and one other, UDP way up in the user ports, that I can't figure out. They listen on UDP port 80 for everything. The other device brand has an http web service exposed, as well, which makes interacting with it a lot easier, but adds one more attack vector. Though the lack of encryption bothers me, these devices are also completely proprietary, very cheap and lack any API or any way to work with any home automation solutions other than their apps, so the fact that it's unprotected is allowing me to easily write a plug-in to tie these in with my home automation tools. My plan is to block them from communicating with the internet and replace their heartbeat packets with replies from a local host. They're already running on a separate wireless network that's isolated from my home network and all but the hosts they contact. I did this because of another ugly limitation: the devices all require your network be WPA-PSK (or WEP, I assume). WPA2 is not supported and the passphrase has a maximum length of 32 characters. When I do this, the (worthless) apps will stop working but since I'm tying into my home automation solution, that's no issue from where I sit. As for the neutral wire, it's purpose is pretty obvious when you think about it: The neutral wire is required to power the switch when the switch is turned off. Without it, there's no current going to the switch and therefore nothing to power the device -- bye, bye WiFi connection. My house was built in the 1980s and includes neutral wires in all of the switches. Whether or not a house has neutral wires, though, seems to be pretty random. Since a lot of switches include LEDs for making finding the switch easier in the dark (though many are battery powered), a lot of house wiring includes the neutral wire to some/all switches. Code in my area requires it for new wiring and I assume that's common, but my parent's house built in the late 90s lacks the neutral wire in the switches I looked at. I'm a little surprised they didn't include this in bold lettering in the listing, but if you do a bit of home wiring you'd assume this limitation was there, anyway.

adysan 11y ago

Regarding that fake CE (China Export) mark https://twitter.com/StudioBezombie/status/703039494975414273 https://twitter.com/StudioBezombie/status/703039494975414273