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I would argue that the only skill a business owner really needs is the skill to identify, hire, and lead talent. Everything else is probably secondary. If you'r

I would argue that the only skill a business owner really needs is the skill to identify, hire, and lead talent. Everything else is probably secondary. If you're not good at programming, learning to program in order to do it yourself is ridiculous advice - unless you spend ten years learning full time, you'll end up with a mediocre product. Delegation works. Just do it.

joe_the_user 17y ago
Yes, If someone happens to have programming skill, it might expand into the skill of knowing which programmer to hire. But the skills the parent identifies are inherently the core skills - anyone growing in business would want to gain them and leave their other skills by the way side (you aren't going to run your business like a twelve year doing his homework, are you?). Of course, I'd prefer not to live in the world of pure delegation so I'd rather go with being hired by someone with these skills. Oddly enough, the best managers of programmers actually don't jump in and program themselves!
vorador 17y ago
How do you identify a good programmer if you don't know programming ?
- dschobel 17y ago
  A track record of producing good products would be my instinctive answer were I a non-technical person. But since I'm a technical person, I'd ask them why manhole covers are round.
  - jderick 17y ago
    And hope they laugh and refer to Feynman
- coffeemug 17y ago
  It's not immediately clear to me that technical people are any better at identifying good programmers than non-technical ones.
  - geebee 17y ago
    Some technical people are probably worse at identifying good programmers than non-technical ones. But overall, I'd say that the very best people at identifying good programmers have a strong technical background. However, would agree that the situation is hardly hopeless for non-technical folks. After all, as far as I know, Jason Fried didn't have a strong programming background, and he ended up with DHH. I also agree with your top post. While it would be nice to have 10 years of software experience or the technical background to evaluate programming talent, you can still succeed by identifying and partnering with talented people.
  - vorador 17y ago
    But, would you say the same for a doctor ?
- protomyth 17y ago
  One of my friends had this as an interview question "What was the last thing you programmed that wasn't for work or school?" He was looking for any answer and some enthusiasm. Might not work for everybody, but it was a neat question.
  - aswanson 17y ago
    The best programmers I've run into always have interesting side projects. Without fail.
nate 17y ago
If you have someone to delegate to, delegation is great. And yep something like yourflipflops.com is a mediocre website, but its a website thats up and sells a product. Too many people can't say that because they refuse to do it themselves and get stuck waiting for someone else to help them out. When it comes to programming, just learning to program is an incredible way to actually meet other people that are already on a path to getting much better than you at programming - doesn't mean you have to commit to it full time for 10 years.
rwhitman 17y ago
I agree to an extent... (I personally am actually in the process of trying to forget that I know how to do the production work so that I can focus more on delegating and bigger picture issues.) But on the other hand intimate knowledge of what exactly you're delegating can be crucial in many ways. Even if you're not a GREAT programmer, having had the experience learning the skills and building the prototype gives a more comprehensive understanding of what's needed to accomplish your goals
krmmalik 17y ago
I think the author is trying to assert the idea of "not hanging around" waiting for someone to come and do it for you. He's not negating the idea of delegation. I guess you just have to strike a balance. There are many people out there who will wait days for someone to make a simple html change for them on their site, where they could just as well learn to do it themselves. Its not like they have to learn C# overnight.
yankeeracer73 17y ago
Delegation does work when there is just too much to do, but I would also argue knowing at least a _little_ about programming would help you work with your team better. And that goes for anything in addition to programming. I don't really know how to program but I understand the basics from taking a couple classes in school. I don't try to give advice, but I at least can tell when something is going to be hard or easy to accomplish and can say more cogent things in discussions about new features/changes, etc.
nostrademons 17y ago
So many people confuse "Let others do what they're good at" with "Let others do everything", though. Including your comment. No, talent identification is not the only skill a business owner needs. If they have a skill and you don't, why should they come work for you? A business owner needs to be skilled enough in their particular specialty to get the ball rolling and the money flowing in. Then they'll have the resources and cachet to identify and hire talent. But if all they can do is find talent and tell it what to do, why should the talent bother listening? I'm sure I could tell go up to Marc Andreesen or Steve Jobs or Larry Page and say "I've got this great idea. Come work for me." I also suspect that if I did this, I'd get this quizzical "Who the fuck are you and why should I?" look, and then they'd walk away.
- aswanson 17y ago
  Nostra, accidentally downmodded you when I meant to upmod. Damned interface on this phone sucks at this, sorry.
- coffeemug 17y ago
  If they have a skill and you don't, why should they come work for you? Because talented people don't spontaneously self-organize. Your example is a bit silly - you're talking about people with a lot of money, stellar reputation, and great leadership skills. Most skilled people don't have any of these things. Working for someone with leadership skills is the only option they've got. If you happen to have enough charisma to get people to buy into your vision, you really don't need to know how to code.
  - aswanson 17y ago
    Because talented people don't spontaneously self-organize. Yes they do. Game recognizes game. I always want to socialize and engage with people I deem technically competent. Myself, and most technical people I know, would not defer judgement nor respect to someone trumping "leadership skills" as a reason to follow them. In fact, someone projecting that air would be an immediate target for mockery until they displayed technical competence.
- 17y ago
jimbokun 17y ago
What if you don't have any money to hire people?
- dagobart 17y ago
  then I'd likely resort to getafreelancer or something and get the initial stuff done. There is quite a bandwith of talent and cheap, too. Though, I wouldn't get excited about it. For an initial version, I guess, everything you get there might suffice; but I might turn to pros asap.

joe_the_user 17y ago

Yes, If someone happens to have programming skill, it might expand into the skill of knowing which programmer to hire. But the skills the parent identifies are inherently the core skills - anyone growing in business would want to gain them and leave their other skills by the way side (you aren't going to run your business like a twelve year doing his homework, are you?). Of course, I'd prefer not to live in the world of pure delegation so I'd rather go with being hired by someone with these skills. Oddly enough, the best managers of programmers actually don't jump in and program themselves!

vorador 17y ago

How do you identify a good programmer if you don't know programming ?

dschobel 17y ago
A track record of producing good products would be my instinctive answer were I a non-technical person. But since I'm a technical person, I'd ask them why manhole covers are round.
- jderick 17y ago
  And hope they laugh and refer to Feynman
coffeemug 17y ago
It's not immediately clear to me that technical people are any better at identifying good programmers than non-technical ones.
- geebee 17y ago
  Some technical people are probably worse at identifying good programmers than non-technical ones. But overall, I'd say that the very best people at identifying good programmers have a strong technical background. However, would agree that the situation is hardly hopeless for non-technical folks. After all, as far as I know, Jason Fried didn't have a strong programming background, and he ended up with DHH. I also agree with your top post. While it would be nice to have 10 years of software experience or the technical background to evaluate programming talent, you can still succeed by identifying and partnering with talented people.
- vorador 17y ago
  But, would you say the same for a doctor ?
protomyth 17y ago
One of my friends had this as an interview question "What was the last thing you programmed that wasn't for work or school?" He was looking for any answer and some enthusiasm. Might not work for everybody, but it was a neat question.
- aswanson 17y ago
  The best programmers I've run into always have interesting side projects. Without fail.

nate 17y ago

If you have someone to delegate to, delegation is great. And yep something like yourflipflops.com is a mediocre website, but its a website thats up and sells a product. Too many people can't say that because they refuse to do it themselves and get stuck waiting for someone else to help them out. When it comes to programming, just learning to program is an incredible way to actually meet other people that are already on a path to getting much better than you at programming - doesn't mean you have to commit to it full time for 10 years.

rwhitman 17y ago

I agree to an extent... (I personally am actually in the process of trying to forget that I know how to do the production work so that I can focus more on delegating and bigger picture issues.) But on the other hand intimate knowledge of what exactly you're delegating can be crucial in many ways. Even if you're not a GREAT programmer, having had the experience learning the skills and building the prototype gives a more comprehensive understanding of what's needed to accomplish your goals

krmmalik 17y ago

I think the author is trying to assert the idea of "not hanging around" waiting for someone to come and do it for you. He's not negating the idea of delegation. I guess you just have to strike a balance. There are many people out there who will wait days for someone to make a simple html change for them on their site, where they could just as well learn to do it themselves. Its not like they have to learn C# overnight.

yankeeracer73 17y ago

Delegation does work when there is just too much to do, but I would also argue knowing at least a _little_ about programming would help you work with your team better. And that goes for anything in addition to programming. I don't really know how to program but I understand the basics from taking a couple classes in school. I don't try to give advice, but I at least can tell when something is going to be hard or easy to accomplish and can say more cogent things in discussions about new features/changes, etc.

nostrademons 17y ago

So many people confuse "Let others do what they're good at" with "Let others do everything", though. Including your comment. No, talent identification is not the only skill a business owner needs. If they have a skill and you don't, why should they come work for you? A business owner needs to be skilled enough in their particular specialty to get the ball rolling and the money flowing in. Then they'll have the resources and cachet to identify and hire talent. But if all they can do is find talent and tell it what to do, why should the talent bother listening? I'm sure I could tell go up to Marc Andreesen or Steve Jobs or Larry Page and say "I've got this great idea. Come work for me." I also suspect that if I did this, I'd get this quizzical "Who the fuck are you and why should I?" look, and then they'd walk away.

aswanson 17y ago
Nostra, accidentally downmodded you when I meant to upmod. Damned interface on this phone sucks at this, sorry.
coffeemug 17y ago
If they have a skill and you don't, why should they come work for you? Because talented people don't spontaneously self-organize. Your example is a bit silly - you're talking about people with a lot of money, stellar reputation, and great leadership skills. Most skilled people don't have any of these things. Working for someone with leadership skills is the only option they've got. If you happen to have enough charisma to get people to buy into your vision, you really don't need to know how to code.
- aswanson 17y ago
  Because talented people don't spontaneously self-organize. Yes they do. Game recognizes game. I always want to socialize and engage with people I deem technically competent. Myself, and most technical people I know, would not defer judgement nor respect to someone trumping "leadership skills" as a reason to follow them. In fact, someone projecting that air would be an immediate target for mockery until they displayed technical competence.
17y ago

jimbokun 17y ago

What if you don't have any money to hire people?

dagobart 17y ago
then I'd likely resort to getafreelancer or something and get the initial stuff done. There is quite a bandwith of talent and cheap, too. Though, I wouldn't get excited about it. For an initial version, I guess, everything you get there might suffice; but I might turn to pros asap.