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"The number of Americans trying to smuggle guns on to planes keeps rising" Is the actual headline. And it's one I find fault with. The mere presence of a gun i

"The number of Americans trying to smuggle guns on to planes keeps rising" Is the actual headline. And it's one I find fault with. The mere presence of a gun in somebody's bag does not imply "smuggling". As alien as it seems to us in the UK (and elsewhere), there are certain parts of the US where people think absolutely nothing of carrying a gun around with them all the time. I have little doubt that some percentage of these finds are just due to forgetfulness, and not to any malign intent.

01Michael10 11y ago
Did you even read the article? They are talking about cases where people are actually trying to hide the guns in their luggage which are on the rise. Sorry, the increase in found guns can't be explained merely by people "forgetting" them. Everyone should be MORE aware of what they are bring to the airport these days. Right?
- MCRed 11y ago
  Do you realize it is perfectly legal to transport a firearm in your luggage? You just check it at the counter, and they usually put a flag on the case to indicate it has been cleared (to make sure it's unloaded.) I wonder how many of these are simply pieces where the flag was ripped off via the luggage transport system.
  - 01Michael10 11y ago
    Do you realize your reply has nothing to do with my comment? I don't believe most of these people were ever going to check their guns at the counter as in they are NOT "forgetting".
Kiro 11y ago
Maybe you're right but I think that you would have to be very absent-minded to accidentally bring a gun with you into airport security.
- hueving 11y ago
  Have you ever accidentally brought a bottle of shampoo or scissors? You are vastly underestimating how common it is to have a gun in some parts of the country. It is just an everyday item like anything else to some people.
  - yoz-y 11y ago
    Even though understandable this does not explain the rising numbers. We do not know whether they are normalised or simply due to the fact that more people have guns, but it could be a trend. Also, the whole point of airport security is to find weapons, so it is also reasonable to think that people would be more cautious about accidentally bringing a gun rather than a shampoo bottle (which you can actually bring if it is small enough).
    - vijayr 11y ago
      Are we sure the numbers are rising? Maybe airport security just got better at detecting guns in the recent years?
      - yoz-y 11y ago
        That is of course also a possibility.
      - amelius 11y ago
        Some other options: people started traveling more; people are carrying guns more; people have become more absent-minded (smartphones?)
      - wil421 11y ago
        This could be the case, every year or so I see headlines where the TSA failed to find a gun during a test by their own people. Last time I flew it was almost mandatory to go through the body scanner. The time before that it was only every 10 people or so.
    - swiley 11y ago
Silhouette 11y ago
The last time I flew in Europe, there was a huge skip next to the security check. As far as I could see, it was full of exactly two things: bottles of drinks and bottles of sunscreen. It seems a reasonable assumption that these weren't being "smuggled" on board for nefarious purposes but had instead been left in people's bags unintentionally or due to ignorance of the rules and then picked up on a scan when it was too late to transfer anything worth keeping to checked luggage. One would hope that anyone possessing a firearm would be more aware of it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if at least some non-zero level of passengers in areas where people routinely and legally carry do forget.
ekianjo 11y ago
> Is the actual headline Funny, HN mods tend to correct headlines when it's not the same as the actual link's, but in this case they keep leaving it on like that. Is there any reason for the double-standards?
- dang 11y ago
  I'm late to see this, but the submitter chose to use the doc title of the HTML document. Since it was neither misleading nor linkbaity, that was legit, so there was never any moderation issue here.
- rory096 11y ago
  That's not the policy. If the article headline is clickbaity or misleading the HN headline is changed to a representative sentence from the article.
- Silhouette 11y ago
  The article was posted in the middle of the night, US time. I imagine most people with any mod powers are asleep, and in any case it's hardly a wildly inappropriate submission title.
  - scoot 11y ago
    And that is a problem. The moderation here is noticeably inconsistent, depending on time of day / day of week.
    - ptaipale 11y ago
      Bah. I think the moderation here likes to sleep at night, and isn't working full-time just on moderating comments and headlines.
      - scoot 11y ago
        Completely missing the point that this site doesn't sleep, so if the moderation is all in one timezone, it's being applied inconsistently. I found your own form of "moderation" of something you didn't understand amusingly childish.
surge 11y ago
I've lost how many multitool pocket knives in my bags when travelling because I forgot I had it, even when I check my bags one ends up being discovered in some nook or cranny in a bag. I have a hard time thinking I wouldn't be constantly mindful of the fact I had a gun on me, and would never pack one in a bag, but I'm not everybody and I have never carried everyday. There are parts of rural America and some cities where it is done as part of their every day carry and no one blinks an eye. So I could see it happening.
- MCRed 11y ago
  The proper, legal way to transport a firearm while flying is in the bag. Last time I did it (this was before 2001 and the police state hysteria we're in now) all that you had to do was get a little sticker for the bags handle at the check in counter (they asked us to show that the gun was unloaded.) Not even a big deal. There is no history of guns leaping up, loading themselves and killing people.
  - rsync 11y ago
    "Last time I did it (this was before 2001 and the police state hysteria we're in now) all that you had to do was get a little sticker for the bags handle at the check in counter (they asked us to show that the gun was unloaded.)" This is still the case, post-2001. You bring the firearms in a locked, hard case and you show the gate agent that they are unloaded, then you lock the case in front of them and they put some stickers on it. The only sketchy part is, you have to take a firearm out in the ticket line to show it to the gate agent, who has a hazy-at-best understanding of whether that particular firearm is loaded or not.
matwood 11y ago
I grew up in the south and it was no big deal when kids would come to school with their shotguns and rifles on racks in the back of their trucks. Usually they had gone hunting that morning. Now they would be labeled as terrorists and probably shot upon entering the parking lot (I jest, but only sort of). At airports I have had to mail back to myself a very nice engraved money clip multiple times. The reason? It has a 2" or so pocket knife type blade on it. Each time TSA treated me like I was trying to smuggle something when I put the clip in the bin for the xray machine. If I was trying to smuggle something I would not throw it in the bin with everything else.
- hga 11y ago
  In my part of SW Missouri, which I'll grant is in part of the cultural South, in the late '40s my father and his peers would store their long guns in their high school lockers during the day. The late Supreme Court Justice Scalia, three years younger, carried his .22 target rifle on the NYC subways to and from practice. One reason I've elsewhere referred to what's happening with skyrocketing legal concealed carry as a renorming, we're just returning to a not all that old normal.
gherkin0 11y ago
> As alien as it seems to us in the UK (and elsewhere), there are certain parts of the US where people think absolutely nothing of carrying a gun around with them all the time. I have little doubt that some percentage of these finds are just due to forgetfulness, and not to any malign intent. I'm reminded of this story: A man accidentally had a loaded gun in his luggage, got past security, realized it in flight, and then reported himself afterward: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded-gun-slips-past-tsa-screeners/story?id=12412458 http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded-gun-slips-past-tsa-scre...
rsync 11y ago
"I have little doubt that some percentage of these finds are just due to forgetfulness, and not to any malign intent." As a gun owner, a CCW holder and a sometimes open carrier of firearms - privately and publicly - let me state in no uncertain terms: if you forget you are carrying a gun, you have no business carrying a gun.
- d_theorist 11y ago
  Completely agreed. Doesn't mean some people won't forget though.
- jackinloadup 11y ago
  I'm sure in this stance its not that they forgot about the gun its self but when you have something on you all the time like a phone or a ring or a gun in this case. You might forget when you can't bring it into a building. In areas where guns are common place like SW Missouri there aren't a whole lot of places you can't bring your gun so its not always at the front of peoples thought processes.
  - hga 11y ago
    And in most of the places you "can't bring your gun" the law in Missouri is such that you can only be asked to leave, and if the police have to be called, the first time it's a wrist slap (although that of course says nothing about trespassing etc.).
    - aidenn0 11y ago
      Big exception being federal property.
CyberDildonics 11y ago
Not only that but it is perfectly legal and not an exotic request to bring a gun with you when you fly, it just must be checked and locked up properly.
- DrScump 11y ago
  It must be unloaded, declared, and in a locked container. The stat this article refers to is "catches", i.e. someone bearing a handgun without declaring it in this manner. Any such error is troubling, but look at the stat in context: that's an average 7 occurrences out of an average of 2.2 million trips (emplanements) on an average DAY plus all the additional people who enter security to see people off and greet arrivals.
Zelphyr 11y ago
I lost a perfectly good very small, very dull Victornox pocket knife because I forgot it was in my pocket before going through security. The TSA agent was nearly orgasmic in her "find". Her rapture at discovering my WMD was more frustrating than actually losing it.
dang 11y ago
> the actual headline jimsojim used the doc title, which is always a legit option, and in this case the better one because it contains more information.

01Michael10 11y ago

Did you even read the article? They are talking about cases where people are actually trying to hide the guns in their luggage which are on the rise. Sorry, the increase in found guns can't be explained merely by people "forgetting" them. Everyone should be MORE aware of what they are bring to the airport these days. Right?

MCRed 11y ago
Do you realize it is perfectly legal to transport a firearm in your luggage? You just check it at the counter, and they usually put a flag on the case to indicate it has been cleared (to make sure it's unloaded.) I wonder how many of these are simply pieces where the flag was ripped off via the luggage transport system.
- 01Michael10 11y ago
  Do you realize your reply has nothing to do with my comment? I don't believe most of these people were ever going to check their guns at the counter as in they are NOT "forgetting".

Kiro 11y ago

Maybe you're right but I think that you would have to be very absent-minded to accidentally bring a gun with you into airport security.

hueving 11y ago
Have you ever accidentally brought a bottle of shampoo or scissors? You are vastly underestimating how common it is to have a gun in some parts of the country. It is just an everyday item like anything else to some people.
- yoz-y 11y ago
  Even though understandable this does not explain the rising numbers. We do not know whether they are normalised or simply due to the fact that more people have guns, but it could be a trend. Also, the whole point of airport security is to find weapons, so it is also reasonable to think that people would be more cautious about accidentally bringing a gun rather than a shampoo bottle (which you can actually bring if it is small enough).
  - vijayr 11y ago
    Are we sure the numbers are rising? Maybe airport security just got better at detecting guns in the recent years?
    - yoz-y 11y ago
      That is of course also a possibility.
    - amelius 11y ago
      Some other options: people started traveling more; people are carrying guns more; people have become more absent-minded (smartphones?)
    - wil421 11y ago
      This could be the case, every year or so I see headlines where the TSA failed to find a gun during a test by their own people. Last time I flew it was almost mandatory to go through the body scanner. The time before that it was only every 10 people or so.
  - swiley 11y ago

Silhouette 11y ago

The last time I flew in Europe, there was a huge skip next to the security check. As far as I could see, it was full of exactly two things: bottles of drinks and bottles of sunscreen. It seems a reasonable assumption that these weren't being "smuggled" on board for nefarious purposes but had instead been left in people's bags unintentionally or due to ignorance of the rules and then picked up on a scan when it was too late to transfer anything worth keeping to checked luggage. One would hope that anyone possessing a firearm would be more aware of it, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if at least some non-zero level of passengers in areas where people routinely and legally carry do forget.

ekianjo 11y ago

> Is the actual headline Funny, HN mods tend to correct headlines when it's not the same as the actual link's, but in this case they keep leaving it on like that. Is there any reason for the double-standards?

dang 11y ago
I'm late to see this, but the submitter chose to use the doc title of the HTML document. Since it was neither misleading nor linkbaity, that was legit, so there was never any moderation issue here.
rory096 11y ago
That's not the policy. If the article headline is clickbaity or misleading the HN headline is changed to a representative sentence from the article.
Silhouette 11y ago
The article was posted in the middle of the night, US time. I imagine most people with any mod powers are asleep, and in any case it's hardly a wildly inappropriate submission title.
- scoot 11y ago
  And that is a problem. The moderation here is noticeably inconsistent, depending on time of day / day of week.
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    Bah. I think the moderation here likes to sleep at night, and isn't working full-time just on moderating comments and headlines.
    - scoot 11y ago
      Completely missing the point that this site doesn't sleep, so if the moderation is all in one timezone, it's being applied inconsistently. I found your own form of "moderation" of something you didn't understand amusingly childish.

surge 11y ago

I've lost how many multitool pocket knives in my bags when travelling because I forgot I had it, even when I check my bags one ends up being discovered in some nook or cranny in a bag. I have a hard time thinking I wouldn't be constantly mindful of the fact I had a gun on me, and would never pack one in a bag, but I'm not everybody and I have never carried everyday. There are parts of rural America and some cities where it is done as part of their every day carry and no one blinks an eye. So I could see it happening.

MCRed 11y ago
The proper, legal way to transport a firearm while flying is in the bag. Last time I did it (this was before 2001 and the police state hysteria we're in now) all that you had to do was get a little sticker for the bags handle at the check in counter (they asked us to show that the gun was unloaded.) Not even a big deal. There is no history of guns leaping up, loading themselves and killing people.
- rsync 11y ago
  "Last time I did it (this was before 2001 and the police state hysteria we're in now) all that you had to do was get a little sticker for the bags handle at the check in counter (they asked us to show that the gun was unloaded.)" This is still the case, post-2001. You bring the firearms in a locked, hard case and you show the gate agent that they are unloaded, then you lock the case in front of them and they put some stickers on it. The only sketchy part is, you have to take a firearm out in the ticket line to show it to the gate agent, who has a hazy-at-best understanding of whether that particular firearm is loaded or not.

matwood 11y ago

I grew up in the south and it was no big deal when kids would come to school with their shotguns and rifles on racks in the back of their trucks. Usually they had gone hunting that morning. Now they would be labeled as terrorists and probably shot upon entering the parking lot (I jest, but only sort of). At airports I have had to mail back to myself a very nice engraved money clip multiple times. The reason? It has a 2" or so pocket knife type blade on it. Each time TSA treated me like I was trying to smuggle something when I put the clip in the bin for the xray machine. If I was trying to smuggle something I would not throw it in the bin with everything else.

hga 11y ago
In my part of SW Missouri, which I'll grant is in part of the cultural South, in the late '40s my father and his peers would store their long guns in their high school lockers during the day. The late Supreme Court Justice Scalia, three years younger, carried his .22 target rifle on the NYC subways to and from practice. One reason I've elsewhere referred to what's happening with skyrocketing legal concealed carry as a renorming, we're just returning to a not all that old normal.

gherkin0 11y ago

> As alien as it seems to us in the UK (and elsewhere), there are certain parts of the US where people think absolutely nothing of carrying a gun around with them all the time. I have little doubt that some percentage of these finds are just due to forgetfulness, and not to any malign intent. I'm reminded of this story: A man accidentally had a loaded gun in his luggage, got past security, realized it in flight, and then reported himself afterward: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded-gun-slips-past-tsa-screeners/story?id=12412458 http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded-gun-slips-past-tsa-scre...

rsync 11y ago

"I have little doubt that some percentage of these finds are just due to forgetfulness, and not to any malign intent." As a gun owner, a CCW holder and a sometimes open carrier of firearms - privately and publicly - let me state in no uncertain terms: if you forget you are carrying a gun, you have no business carrying a gun.

d_theorist 11y ago
Completely agreed. Doesn't mean some people won't forget though.
jackinloadup 11y ago
I'm sure in this stance its not that they forgot about the gun its self but when you have something on you all the time like a phone or a ring or a gun in this case. You might forget when you can't bring it into a building. In areas where guns are common place like SW Missouri there aren't a whole lot of places you can't bring your gun so its not always at the front of peoples thought processes.
- hga 11y ago
  And in most of the places you "can't bring your gun" the law in Missouri is such that you can only be asked to leave, and if the police have to be called, the first time it's a wrist slap (although that of course says nothing about trespassing etc.).
  - aidenn0 11y ago
    Big exception being federal property.

CyberDildonics 11y ago

Not only that but it is perfectly legal and not an exotic request to bring a gun with you when you fly, it just must be checked and locked up properly.

DrScump 11y ago
It must be unloaded, declared, and in a locked container. The stat this article refers to is "catches", i.e. someone bearing a handgun without declaring it in this manner. Any such error is troubling, but look at the stat in context: that's an average 7 occurrences out of an average of 2.2 million trips (emplanements) on an average DAY plus all the additional people who enter security to see people off and greet arrivals.

Zelphyr 11y ago

I lost a perfectly good very small, very dull Victornox pocket knife because I forgot it was in my pocket before going through security. The TSA agent was nearly orgasmic in her "find". Her rapture at discovering my WMD was more frustrating than actually losing it.

dang 11y ago

> the actual headline jimsojim used the doc title, which is always a legit option, and in this case the better one because it contains more information.