5 ms·

>Learn synthetic biology That term doesn't mean what you think it means. >Poorly constructed, sealed chambers This thing will work once, and then be contamin

by searine 11y ago

>Learn synthetic biology That term doesn't mean what you think it means. >Poorly constructed, sealed chambers This thing will work once, and then be contaminated forever. >Talk about DNA programs Replacing standard terminology with non-standard patronizing terms are a key to proper education, right? >Random name drop of Obama, and biology "Threads" I think you mean "threats". But hey obvious typos on your frontpage really showcase your commitment to quality, right? >800 dollars Good fucking lord.

btreesOfSpring 11y ago
the $800 price tag seems reasonable if you compare the 1982 introductory price of the Commodore 64 at $595 (approx. $1,500 today)[0]. Most parents were buying the c64 or a similarly priced computer for their children's education and entertainment. From that POV the pricing for this biology kit, if you kids are scientifically enthusiastic, seems reasonable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64
- searine 11y ago
  Give me 200 bucks and an ebay account and I can buy a lab that will run circles around this crippled mess. Kids want to be empowered, not patronized. The intended user for a kit like this would be a 12-16 year old. At that age they are old enough to use real tools. Buy the kid an incubator, glassware, and a pcr machine. The commodore is a great example because you could actually program things on it. Things not listed in the instruction manual. Kids will learn if you give them the tools to do real biology, not playskool biology.
  - haliax 11y ago
    > Give me 200 bucks and an ebay account and I can buy a lab that will run circles around this crippled mess. Could you go into more detail about this? I'd love to know how to build a lab on the cheap. Can you get genetic material for bacterial transformation within a K-12 budget as well?
    - searine 11y ago
      > Can you get genetic material for bacterial transformation within a K-12 budget as well? For a standard bacterial transformation experiment you'll need : An incubator, a pcr machine, taq, primers, pcr master mix, a centrifuge, petri plates, LB broth, agar, ecoli, a gel box. Honestly, half of this you could get as cast-offs from your local university for free. Universities are all about supporting K-12 science, you just have to ask. Hardware is going to run you about 200-300 bucks. The real expense here is the used PCR machine. The incubator, and the centrifuge can be home-made or repurposed (ie a hand crank centrifuge, and a chicken egg incubator). The rest of the cost is just reagents. The two big things you need to make yourself are Taq, and ecoli competent cells. Both of these are fun experiments in themselves are can be made for 50-100 bucks (resulting in years worth of reagents). After that it's just buying primers (10-20 bucks a pop) and refills on reagents like agarose and LB which are cheap. DIY lab doesn't have to be expensive if you are willing to sacrifice a little bit of time.
      - ohblahitsme 11y ago
        True. The problem with DIY labs I think is the barrier to entry. It's really hard to start from nothing to having a DIY lab where you have some idea of what's going on. Maybe an online lab (videos?) is the way to go? My microbio and biotech labs in college did serve me pretty well as far as knowing what the bands in my gel mean, etc.
        ehtll 11y ago
        Arcturus BioCloud are doing an cloud lab geared towards DIY biology: https://www.arcturus.io/ https://www.arcturus.io/
        searine 11y ago
        >Maybe an online lab (videos?) is the way to go? Check out the Journal of Visualized Experiments : http://www.jove.com/ http://www.jove.com/
      - dekhn 11y ago
        I just went through the exercise of outfitting my home lab, and I think $200-300 is a bit low. Most of the stuff on ebay that goes super-cheap is just broken. You'll spend a lot of time debugging and fixing stuff that is unrelated to your experiment. For the centrifuge, I'd do 3d-printed rotor on a dremel (https://diybio.org/tag/3d-printing/ https://diybio.org/tag/3d-printing/) I use this already to spin down cells and is... cheap and not very safe. You didn't mention an autoclave- that's needed to make sure all your buffers and equipment aren't contaminated.
dang 11y ago
It sounds like you know a lot about this area, but an angry denunciation doesn't help the rest of us much. It would be better to share your knowledge and drop the snark. An absolute dismissal can feel good for a little while, but a culture of dismissals is one of the worst things that could happen here, so we all need to moderate our impulses a bit.
entee 11y ago
Agreed. Applying the terminology of traditional consumer tech to Biology/Biochemistry is both conceptually incorrect and deeply problematic. I've been doing molecular biology professionally for nearly 10 years now, I don't think I could so something very useful with this kit.

by searine 11y ago

btreesOfSpring 11y ago

the $800 price tag seems reasonable if you compare the 1982 introductory price of the Commodore 64 at $595 (approx. $1,500 today)[0]. Most parents were buying the c64 or a similarly priced computer for their children's education and entertainment. From that POV the pricing for this biology kit, if you kids are scientifically enthusiastic, seems reasonable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64

searine 11y ago
Give me 200 bucks and an ebay account and I can buy a lab that will run circles around this crippled mess. Kids want to be empowered, not patronized. The intended user for a kit like this would be a 12-16 year old. At that age they are old enough to use real tools. Buy the kid an incubator, glassware, and a pcr machine. The commodore is a great example because you could actually program things on it. Things not listed in the instruction manual. Kids will learn if you give them the tools to do real biology, not playskool biology.
- haliax 11y ago
  > Give me 200 bucks and an ebay account and I can buy a lab that will run circles around this crippled mess. Could you go into more detail about this? I'd love to know how to build a lab on the cheap. Can you get genetic material for bacterial transformation within a K-12 budget as well?
  - searine 11y ago
    > Can you get genetic material for bacterial transformation within a K-12 budget as well? For a standard bacterial transformation experiment you'll need : An incubator, a pcr machine, taq, primers, pcr master mix, a centrifuge, petri plates, LB broth, agar, ecoli, a gel box. Honestly, half of this you could get as cast-offs from your local university for free. Universities are all about supporting K-12 science, you just have to ask. Hardware is going to run you about 200-300 bucks. The real expense here is the used PCR machine. The incubator, and the centrifuge can be home-made or repurposed (ie a hand crank centrifuge, and a chicken egg incubator). The rest of the cost is just reagents. The two big things you need to make yourself are Taq, and ecoli competent cells. Both of these are fun experiments in themselves are can be made for 50-100 bucks (resulting in years worth of reagents). After that it's just buying primers (10-20 bucks a pop) and refills on reagents like agarose and LB which are cheap. DIY lab doesn't have to be expensive if you are willing to sacrifice a little bit of time.
    - ohblahitsme 11y ago
      True. The problem with DIY labs I think is the barrier to entry. It's really hard to start from nothing to having a DIY lab where you have some idea of what's going on. Maybe an online lab (videos?) is the way to go? My microbio and biotech labs in college did serve me pretty well as far as knowing what the bands in my gel mean, etc.
      - ehtll 11y ago
        Arcturus BioCloud are doing an cloud lab geared towards DIY biology: https://www.arcturus.io/ https://www.arcturus.io/
      - searine 11y ago
        >Maybe an online lab (videos?) is the way to go? Check out the Journal of Visualized Experiments : http://www.jove.com/ http://www.jove.com/
    - dekhn 11y ago
      I just went through the exercise of outfitting my home lab, and I think $200-300 is a bit low. Most of the stuff on ebay that goes super-cheap is just broken. You'll spend a lot of time debugging and fixing stuff that is unrelated to your experiment. For the centrifuge, I'd do 3d-printed rotor on a dremel (https://diybio.org/tag/3d-printing/ https://diybio.org/tag/3d-printing/) I use this already to spin down cells and is... cheap and not very safe. You didn't mention an autoclave- that's needed to make sure all your buffers and equipment aren't contaminated.

dang 11y ago

It sounds like you know a lot about this area, but an angry denunciation doesn't help the rest of us much. It would be better to share your knowledge and drop the snark. An absolute dismissal can feel good for a little while, but a culture of dismissals is one of the worst things that could happen here, so we all need to moderate our impulses a bit.

entee 11y ago

Agreed. Applying the terminology of traditional consumer tech to Biology/Biochemistry is both conceptually incorrect and deeply problematic. I've been doing molecular biology professionally for nearly 10 years now, I don't think I could so something very useful with this kit.