5 ms·

If windows 10 didn't have that metro ui and wasn't plagued with spying accusations most people wouldn't be bemoaning the death of windows 7. However because win

by wnevets 11y ago

If windows 10 didn't have that metro ui and wasn't plagued with spying accusations most people wouldn't be bemoaning the death of windows 7. However because windows 10 comes with many different ways to track users, I see this not as an effort for "progress" but just another screw for microsoft to turn against their users.

Qantourisc 11y ago
Yep spyware and metro UI. But I can't imagine it would be this hard to code 2 GUI/Themes, and put in a checkbox to disable all spyware.
- TheDong 11y ago
  > this hard to code 2 GUI/Themes You realize they're more than just themes. Aero and Metro are more different than QT and GTK in my opinion. Sure, old apps look okay with the metro UI theme, but Metro is also a design paradigm similar to material design which expects a fundamentally different layout and design. Windows is still themable, but it's not the theme that people are complaining about, it's the fundamental UI changes. Those are hard to switch between, and it's difficult for both developers and customers to deal with that. > put in a checkbox to disable all spyware The definition of spyware is subjective. The fact that google stores your search queries for later suggestion is spyware to some and convenience to others. There are a set of checkboxes under advanced options in the Windows 10 install to "disable spyware" and, it turns out, having those checkboxes didn't stop people from complaining. Even though it can be turned out, the fact that it's there and on by default (where spyware is mostly "send info to microsoft so that they can attempt to improve the product presumably. Which has no value if it's opt in because no one will do that). Neither of those is as easy to address as you make it out to be.
  - vetinari 11y ago
    > The fact that google stores your search queries for later suggestion is spyware to some and convenience to others. There is one very significant difference. The fact, that the Google search is being done at Google servers, so you have to send out the query - and you are aware, that you are sending the query over network to another computer. Not so with Windows 10 - search in start menu (with Cortana and Bing integration disabled) still sends your query to Bing. Why? It cannot do anything with the search, your local machine is being searched, why should be the query sent at all? The solution would be to firewall SearchUI.exe from sending out anything. But it turns out, that this was intentionally made difficult: a) The firewall rules include exe version numbers. b) The exe versions, their respective firewall rules and your preferences are changed by updates. c) You cannot forbid or manually vet the updates. So basically a+b+c together, Microsoft can (and does) change anything behind your back, without you noticing. > There are a set of checkboxes under advanced options in the Windows 10 install to "disable spyware" and, it turns out, having those checkboxes didn't stop people from complaining. As mentioned above, they are there for good feeling, if they are there. They don't really work as a reasonable person would imagine they would. For some things (i.e. telemetry, update vetting), there are no check boxes at all. It does not help, that even for check/combo boxes that are there, they are silently reset with updates. No wonder that people think, that this is unreasonable and talk loudly about that. And yes, it is easy to address - just don't do things behind people's back, be transparent with data you are sending out, allow out outs (you can ask at OOBE, without hiding choices) and don't silently change preferences. You know, behave how a honest person would behave.
    - mamon 11y ago
      I wonder: can we get something like complete list of servers accessed by those Microsoft trojans? If you try to block SearchUI.exe on system level Microsoft will always find a way to bypass it. If you do that with firewal on your ROUTER then you are protected, at least at home, while being in your own LAN.
  - yrro 11y ago
    > There are a set of checkboxes under advanced options in the Windows 10 install to "disable spyware" and, it turns out, having those checkboxes didn't stop people from complaining. Are these the checkboxes that are greyed out in the UI with no way to make them active?
qntmfred 11y ago
There's nothing wrong with metro ui, people just didn't like full screen start menu in win8. Win10 has the old start menu back
- mercurial 11y ago
  I had briefly the misfortune of working with Windows 8. Double clicking on a PDF resulted in some sort of PDF reader opening up in fullscreen, without any obvious way of turning it into a normal window. I eventually resorted to installing a third-party PDF reader. If that's the new black, I can understand why people would want to stick with Windows 7.
  - Joeri 11y ago
    Even on 8 that full-screen pdf reader now has a title bar with close button (since 8.1). And on 10 it's a normal window. Yes, MS messed up the UX on windows 8.0. They realized it, they fixed it.
    - mercurial 11y ago
      Nonetheless, if that's representative of Metro, I'll just say "no thanks". The problem is that Metro is apparently intended for phone/tablets. It may be good for this kind of scenario, the little I've seen of it is disastrous for desktop use. I want the best use of screen real estate, not an ersatz Android intended for small touch screens.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      They "fixed" metro by reverting back to the old UI. I don't know what crack the Microsoft UX team were smoking, but the utterly ballsed up on Windows 8, so badly that it made Vista look tame. Windows 7 has been around for a long time because of the mess that was Windows 8.
      - Joeri 11y ago
        They assumed that the primary windows 8 user was going to be someone on a 2-in-1 touchscreen laptop. I used windows 8.0 on such a device, and liked it a lot. Windows 7's UI was a really poor fit for that device.
ck2 11y ago
Anyone who must use windows 10 should install Spybot Anti Beacon https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/ https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/ Works on Windows 7 & 8 too for older tracking/phonehome stuff. And Windows 7 users should install GWX control panel to prevent forced upgrades http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
- cm2187 11y ago
  I would be curious to know what spybot anti beacon can't block. Is it enough?
  - ck2 11y ago
    well since you must keep up with windows updates I am sure there is some information passed to microsoft that cannot be blocked during that process it might be possible someday like xprivacy on android to send empty or bogus information for data that cannot be blocked
    - cm2187 11y ago
      But the other thing is that it relies on group policies to block windows features. But I do not know is what data leak cannot be blocked with group policies (if any), even in the current version of windows.

by wnevets 11y ago

Qantourisc 11y ago

Yep spyware and metro UI. But I can't imagine it would be this hard to code 2 GUI/Themes, and put in a checkbox to disable all spyware.

TheDong 11y ago
> this hard to code 2 GUI/Themes You realize they're more than just themes. Aero and Metro are more different than QT and GTK in my opinion. Sure, old apps look okay with the metro UI theme, but Metro is also a design paradigm similar to material design which expects a fundamentally different layout and design. Windows is still themable, but it's not the theme that people are complaining about, it's the fundamental UI changes. Those are hard to switch between, and it's difficult for both developers and customers to deal with that. > put in a checkbox to disable all spyware The definition of spyware is subjective. The fact that google stores your search queries for later suggestion is spyware to some and convenience to others. There are a set of checkboxes under advanced options in the Windows 10 install to "disable spyware" and, it turns out, having those checkboxes didn't stop people from complaining. Even though it can be turned out, the fact that it's there and on by default (where spyware is mostly "send info to microsoft so that they can attempt to improve the product presumably. Which has no value if it's opt in because no one will do that). Neither of those is as easy to address as you make it out to be.
- vetinari 11y ago
  > The fact that google stores your search queries for later suggestion is spyware to some and convenience to others. There is one very significant difference. The fact, that the Google search is being done at Google servers, so you have to send out the query - and you are aware, that you are sending the query over network to another computer. Not so with Windows 10 - search in start menu (with Cortana and Bing integration disabled) still sends your query to Bing. Why? It cannot do anything with the search, your local machine is being searched, why should be the query sent at all? The solution would be to firewall SearchUI.exe from sending out anything. But it turns out, that this was intentionally made difficult: a) The firewall rules include exe version numbers. b) The exe versions, their respective firewall rules and your preferences are changed by updates. c) You cannot forbid or manually vet the updates. So basically a+b+c together, Microsoft can (and does) change anything behind your back, without you noticing. > There are a set of checkboxes under advanced options in the Windows 10 install to "disable spyware" and, it turns out, having those checkboxes didn't stop people from complaining. As mentioned above, they are there for good feeling, if they are there. They don't really work as a reasonable person would imagine they would. For some things (i.e. telemetry, update vetting), there are no check boxes at all. It does not help, that even for check/combo boxes that are there, they are silently reset with updates. No wonder that people think, that this is unreasonable and talk loudly about that. And yes, it is easy to address - just don't do things behind people's back, be transparent with data you are sending out, allow out outs (you can ask at OOBE, without hiding choices) and don't silently change preferences. You know, behave how a honest person would behave.
  - mamon 11y ago
    I wonder: can we get something like complete list of servers accessed by those Microsoft trojans? If you try to block SearchUI.exe on system level Microsoft will always find a way to bypass it. If you do that with firewal on your ROUTER then you are protected, at least at home, while being in your own LAN.
- yrro 11y ago
  > There are a set of checkboxes under advanced options in the Windows 10 install to "disable spyware" and, it turns out, having those checkboxes didn't stop people from complaining. Are these the checkboxes that are greyed out in the UI with no way to make them active?

qntmfred 11y ago

There's nothing wrong with metro ui, people just didn't like full screen start menu in win8. Win10 has the old start menu back

mercurial 11y ago
I had briefly the misfortune of working with Windows 8. Double clicking on a PDF resulted in some sort of PDF reader opening up in fullscreen, without any obvious way of turning it into a normal window. I eventually resorted to installing a third-party PDF reader. If that's the new black, I can understand why people would want to stick with Windows 7.
- Joeri 11y ago
  Even on 8 that full-screen pdf reader now has a title bar with close button (since 8.1). And on 10 it's a normal window. Yes, MS messed up the UX on windows 8.0. They realized it, they fixed it.
  - mercurial 11y ago
    Nonetheless, if that's representative of Metro, I'll just say "no thanks". The problem is that Metro is apparently intended for phone/tablets. It may be good for this kind of scenario, the little I've seen of it is disastrous for desktop use. I want the best use of screen real estate, not an ersatz Android intended for small touch screens.
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    They "fixed" metro by reverting back to the old UI. I don't know what crack the Microsoft UX team were smoking, but the utterly ballsed up on Windows 8, so badly that it made Vista look tame. Windows 7 has been around for a long time because of the mess that was Windows 8.
    - Joeri 11y ago
      They assumed that the primary windows 8 user was going to be someone on a 2-in-1 touchscreen laptop. I used windows 8.0 on such a device, and liked it a lot. Windows 7's UI was a really poor fit for that device.

ck2 11y ago

Anyone who must use windows 10 should install Spybot Anti Beacon https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/ https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/ Works on Windows 7 & 8 too for older tracking/phonehome stuff. And Windows 7 users should install GWX control panel to prevent forced upgrades http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

cm2187 11y ago
I would be curious to know what spybot anti beacon can't block. Is it enough?
- ck2 11y ago
  well since you must keep up with windows updates I am sure there is some information passed to microsoft that cannot be blocked during that process it might be possible someday like xprivacy on android to send empty or bogus information for data that cannot be blocked
  - cm2187 11y ago
    But the other thing is that it relies on group policies to block windows features. But I do not know is what data leak cannot be blocked with group policies (if any), even in the current version of windows.