4 ms·

The big sleep

140 points by mathgenius 11y ago

slagfart 11y ago
I am young, and very scared of this 'death' thing. It is so humbling to read of those who have transcended that fear.
- nappy-doo 11y ago
  I was young once, and very afraid of dying. As I've gotten older, and by no means do I consider myself old, I'm growing more content that I will die. My children are growing. Watching them age and mature, and tackle new things brings me the most joy in the world. It is right that my life will end. It is right that the old must clear the way for the young and the new. It is the way of things. The probability of my death is 1. Fighting it is useless -- living what I have is not. Best of luck. I hope you come to terms with it in whatever way makes sense for you.
  - mysterypie 11y ago
    > It is right that my life will end. It is right that the old must clear the way for the young and the new. It is the way of things. Lots of people say that but it's because we are resigned to it. We don't have a choice about growing old and dying. Just imagine for a minute though that some life extension technology began to really work and could dramatically extend lifespan or prevent aging. Almost everyone who was resigned to aging and death would have a change of heart and would be demanding arbitrarily long lifespans and freedom from aging.
    - noonespecial 11y ago
      Does even radical life extension technology "fix" this? If I live a year longer or until the heat-death of the universe, I still face the same existential questions... and I'll still feel like it flew by and wonder where it all went. I existed. Compared to that fact, the duration is nearly meaningless.
      - smartial_arts 11y ago
        Said the whale from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
        noonespecial 11y ago
        We're all the whale aren't we? Its still better than "Oh no not again" isn't it?
    - ta0967 11y ago
      > > It is right that my life will end. It is right that the old must clear the way for the young and the new. It is the way of things. > Lots of people say that but it's because we are resigned to it. We don't have a choice about growing old and dying. hm, maybe, but that doesn't explain the steep and quick change in my attitude towards the perspective of my own death after my first child was born. i realized how much of the feeling is "the other side" of my sex drive: our primary purpose in life is to procreate so our genes can carry on. once that's fulfilled, the fretting washes away very quickly.
- api 11y ago
  When I had children I experienced a significant drop in fear of death. Now if, say, someone were pointing a gun at me, my greatest emotion would be fear for how it would hurt them. Fear of death is just a piece of hard coded programming to make sure we successfully reproduce and raise healthy offspring. It's not an intrinsic part of being sentient or conscious. It's possible that intelligences that reproduced in some other way would lack it entirely, e.g. AIs that explicitly create their offspring or hive like aliens. For ants only the queen might fear death, and we indeed see ants behaving this way. I think this explains why radical life extension tech is underfunded. Even being a billionaire doesn't change this. Bill Gates has kids.
  - abstractbill 11y ago
    I've had the opposite experience. I remember being very young and starting to think about death, and thinking it the most horrible thing imaginable. That the beautiful experience of life as a human should end in annihilation. That we would just stop existing at some point. Now I'm watching my oldest daughter suffer the same realization. I tell her that there are a few people who are working on solving the problem, that I hope they can figure it out fast enough, that I understand and share the same fears she does. I tell her to live each day to the fullest anyway, and to enjoy life and not dwell on death too much. I don't know what else to say. I've been in extreme pain, and I've been pumped full of enough morphine that I've been pretty incompetent. At least I still existed! And even in all the pain and incompetence I still found my own existence precious and worth hanging on to. Assuming we don't solve death in time for me, I have an eternity to not exist. Why would I be in a hurry to get started? (Still, I found the article interesting and respect the decision of anyone who decides they actually prefer annihilation to pain and incompetence, even if I don't understand them).
  - Aleman360 11y ago
    I don't have kids, but I find it curious when parents have that mentality. If you're kids feel the same about their kids, and so on, then we're not much different than apples, existing only to spread our seed.
    - 11y ago
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
danr4 11y ago
Wonderful. I can definitely relate to being more afraid of being an incompetent old man than actually dying.
japhyr 11y ago
I just turned 43. At times I can't hold in my head the notion that I could die today, or I could live another 60 years. The only answer is to live fully each day. My heroes are people like these. Live a full and active life, and accept death as part of life. I hope we sort out end of life legalities so more people can be as involved in their own deaths as they are in the other major decisions in their lives.
- sdegutis 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure, as a millennial, I'm supposed to agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. But this "individuals should be able to do whatever they want" mentality is harmful to society as a whole. Society is made up of individuals. The actions of individuals do in fact affect the rest of society, even when it's not immediately apparent how they do. We don't live in a vacuum.
  - japhyr 11y ago
    People making intentional, reasoned end of life decisions is beneficial to society. Viewing death as something to put off as long as technologically possible is not a universally good thing.
  - anticore 11y ago
    I don't see why the way one chooses to die should affect society as a whole, specially when it's done on the terms described. The fact that they were courageous enough to live the entirety of their lives the way they wanted to is to be admired and respected, even if you don't necessarily wish to follow such footsteps.
wtbob 11y ago
Their downfall was pride: they were so proud of their intelligence and competence that senility and incompetence seemed to them worse than death (I wonder if they would have supported killing the young mentally deficient as well, but that's a different subject). But I've had relatives who were senile and incompetent, and it's not actually bad, when one is surrounded by family and friends. We were all born dumb and helpless, and many of us die that way. A senile, frail old man is no more worthless than is an infant. Sure, he won't ever grow out of his state (as an infant will), but he once was otherwise and has hopefully earned some love and respect. There are worse things than helplessness. I think hubris is one of them.
- JshWright 11y ago
  Your comment clearly assumes they have lost something by taking the action they did. Can you articulate what it is you think they lost?
  - delluminatus 11y ago
    They lost nothing more or less than some years (or months?) of their lives.
    - amelius 11y ago
      But, getting perhaps a bit philosophical, if you don't experience a loss, did you really "lose" something?
- hiq 11y ago
  One key to happiness according to several studies is to devote a bit of your time to others. Advanced senility deprives you of this once you're unable to actually help another, and I understand how one could want to end it, even without hubris. Not only will an old person never grow out of his state, he has to carry the burden of being aware of it. This is another huge difference.
- fooster 11y ago
  I see no downfall at all. They ended _their_ life the way they chose at the time of their choice. That is how it should be.
me_again 11y ago
I found this book to be a very interesting and affecting discussion of the end of life. Unfortunately it gives fairly cursory attention to the topic of suicide, assisted or otherwise. Otherwise highly recommended. http://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/ http://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/
archibaldJ 11y ago
This is so beautiful. I wish I have the opportunity and courage to make the same rational decision when the appropriate time has come.

The big sleep

140 points by mathgenius 11y ago

slagfart 11y ago

I am young, and very scared of this 'death' thing. It is so humbling to read of those who have transcended that fear.

nappy-doo 11y ago
I was young once, and very afraid of dying. As I've gotten older, and by no means do I consider myself old, I'm growing more content that I will die. My children are growing. Watching them age and mature, and tackle new things brings me the most joy in the world. It is right that my life will end. It is right that the old must clear the way for the young and the new. It is the way of things. The probability of my death is 1. Fighting it is useless -- living what I have is not. Best of luck. I hope you come to terms with it in whatever way makes sense for you.
- mysterypie 11y ago
  > It is right that my life will end. It is right that the old must clear the way for the young and the new. It is the way of things. Lots of people say that but it's because we are resigned to it. We don't have a choice about growing old and dying. Just imagine for a minute though that some life extension technology began to really work and could dramatically extend lifespan or prevent aging. Almost everyone who was resigned to aging and death would have a change of heart and would be demanding arbitrarily long lifespans and freedom from aging.
  - noonespecial 11y ago
    Does even radical life extension technology "fix" this? If I live a year longer or until the heat-death of the universe, I still face the same existential questions... and I'll still feel like it flew by and wonder where it all went. I existed. Compared to that fact, the duration is nearly meaningless.
    - smartial_arts 11y ago
      Said the whale from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
      - noonespecial 11y ago
        We're all the whale aren't we? Its still better than "Oh no not again" isn't it?
  - ta0967 11y ago
    > > It is right that my life will end. It is right that the old must clear the way for the young and the new. It is the way of things. > Lots of people say that but it's because we are resigned to it. We don't have a choice about growing old and dying. hm, maybe, but that doesn't explain the steep and quick change in my attitude towards the perspective of my own death after my first child was born. i realized how much of the feeling is "the other side" of my sex drive: our primary purpose in life is to procreate so our genes can carry on. once that's fulfilled, the fretting washes away very quickly.
api 11y ago
When I had children I experienced a significant drop in fear of death. Now if, say, someone were pointing a gun at me, my greatest emotion would be fear for how it would hurt them. Fear of death is just a piece of hard coded programming to make sure we successfully reproduce and raise healthy offspring. It's not an intrinsic part of being sentient or conscious. It's possible that intelligences that reproduced in some other way would lack it entirely, e.g. AIs that explicitly create their offspring or hive like aliens. For ants only the queen might fear death, and we indeed see ants behaving this way. I think this explains why radical life extension tech is underfunded. Even being a billionaire doesn't change this. Bill Gates has kids.
- abstractbill 11y ago
  I've had the opposite experience. I remember being very young and starting to think about death, and thinking it the most horrible thing imaginable. That the beautiful experience of life as a human should end in annihilation. That we would just stop existing at some point. Now I'm watching my oldest daughter suffer the same realization. I tell her that there are a few people who are working on solving the problem, that I hope they can figure it out fast enough, that I understand and share the same fears she does. I tell her to live each day to the fullest anyway, and to enjoy life and not dwell on death too much. I don't know what else to say. I've been in extreme pain, and I've been pumped full of enough morphine that I've been pretty incompetent. At least I still existed! And even in all the pain and incompetence I still found my own existence precious and worth hanging on to. Assuming we don't solve death in time for me, I have an eternity to not exist. Why would I be in a hurry to get started? (Still, I found the article interesting and respect the decision of anyone who decides they actually prefer annihilation to pain and incompetence, even if I don't understand them).
- Aleman360 11y ago
  I don't have kids, but I find it curious when parents have that mentality. If you're kids feel the same about their kids, and so on, then we're not much different than apples, existing only to spread our seed.
  - 11y ago
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

danr4 11y ago

Wonderful. I can definitely relate to being more afraid of being an incompetent old man than actually dying.

japhyr 11y ago

I just turned 43. At times I can't hold in my head the notion that I could die today, or I could live another 60 years. The only answer is to live fully each day. My heroes are people like these. Live a full and active life, and accept death as part of life. I hope we sort out end of life legalities so more people can be as involved in their own deaths as they are in the other major decisions in their lives.

sdegutis 11y ago
I'm pretty sure, as a millennial, I'm supposed to agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. But this "individuals should be able to do whatever they want" mentality is harmful to society as a whole. Society is made up of individuals. The actions of individuals do in fact affect the rest of society, even when it's not immediately apparent how they do. We don't live in a vacuum.
- japhyr 11y ago
  People making intentional, reasoned end of life decisions is beneficial to society. Viewing death as something to put off as long as technologically possible is not a universally good thing.
- anticore 11y ago
  I don't see why the way one chooses to die should affect society as a whole, specially when it's done on the terms described. The fact that they were courageous enough to live the entirety of their lives the way they wanted to is to be admired and respected, even if you don't necessarily wish to follow such footsteps.

wtbob 11y ago

Their downfall was pride: they were so proud of their intelligence and competence that senility and incompetence seemed to them worse than death (I wonder if they would have supported killing the young mentally deficient as well, but that's a different subject). But I've had relatives who were senile and incompetent, and it's not actually bad, when one is surrounded by family and friends. We were all born dumb and helpless, and many of us die that way. A senile, frail old man is no more worthless than is an infant. Sure, he won't ever grow out of his state (as an infant will), but he once was otherwise and has hopefully earned some love and respect. There are worse things than helplessness. I think hubris is one of them.

JshWright 11y ago
Your comment clearly assumes they have lost something by taking the action they did. Can you articulate what it is you think they lost?
- delluminatus 11y ago
  They lost nothing more or less than some years (or months?) of their lives.
  - amelius 11y ago
    But, getting perhaps a bit philosophical, if you don't experience a loss, did you really "lose" something?
hiq 11y ago
One key to happiness according to several studies is to devote a bit of your time to others. Advanced senility deprives you of this once you're unable to actually help another, and I understand how one could want to end it, even without hubris. Not only will an old person never grow out of his state, he has to carry the burden of being aware of it. This is another huge difference.
fooster 11y ago
I see no downfall at all. They ended _their_ life the way they chose at the time of their choice. That is how it should be.

me_again 11y ago

I found this book to be a very interesting and affecting discussion of the end of life. Unfortunately it gives fairly cursory attention to the topic of suicide, assisted or otherwise. Otherwise highly recommended. http://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/ http://atulgawande.com/book/being-mortal/

archibaldJ 11y ago

This is so beautiful. I wish I have the opportunity and courage to make the same rational decision when the appropriate time has come.