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The closing of this article is actually the key for me. I've been trying to teach my kids that if they have a problem, and I'm not around, they should pick an a

by Afton 11y ago

The closing of this article is actually the key for me. I've been trying to teach my kids that if they have a problem, and I'm not around, they should pick an adult and ask for help. The odds that they will pick an adult that has malicious intention is astronomically small. The odds that things will get worse because they can't bring themselves to ask someone for help seem much higher.

Someone1234 11y ago
Exactly. "Stranger kidnappings" (where someone the child doesn't know kidnaps them) are incredibly rare, a child is at much more risk from traffic, guns, cancer, or swimming pools. The reason why child kidnappings (non-stranger) are seemingly common is because the vast majority of these are by family members (e.g. parents during a custody dispute, grandparents, etc). Child molesters are also very rare (although you can make them seem more common by massaging the statistics, as some charities/politicians/media like to do), and on average in a large retailer there won't even be a single one. There are stories where kids have literally died both because they were scared to approach a stranger, or a stranger was scared to approach them. I have a kid. I am going to teach them to approach any adult, with a slight bias towards people who work there (simply because they are more likely to know the procedure for lost child, not because they're inherently safer/less safe).
- hitekker 11y ago
  To add to what you're saying: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_danger#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_danger#Criticism
- imglorp 11y ago
  Also a slight bias towards an adult accompanying children and also bias towards female: ie mommies with strollers are generally okay.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    I won't be teaching my kids that men are inherently dangerous/child molesters. But you're welcome to bring them up that way. Any adult is fine. The chance of them being dangerous is incredibly low, regardless of gender. Plus the whole "men are bad" thing just mixes a simple message up, what if they spot a member of staff somewhere but they're male. Do they approach or do they not? What if a man is the only adult around? To be honest the whole "men are dangerous" thing is very much a large part of the core problem. It is stranger danger all over again.
    - rayiner 11y ago
      Right. It's basic math. Even if 0.1% of men are going to molest a random kid and it's 0.01% for women, there is a 99.9% chance a random man is not a child molester. It's noise. Similar reasoning applies to why you should ignore all the "X doubles the risk of [some rare Y]" stuff you read in the media.
      - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
        So you're buying a lottery ticket - if you buy it from the female cashier you get a 10x chance of winning. Which cashier do you choose?
        rmxt 11y ago
        No matter who you choose, when you inevitably lose the lottery, you will still only have lost one dollar either way. When a child chooses to not go to an adult at all because only men are around, they might be facing more dire consequences than simply losing a dollar. A valid response to playing the lottery is "don't play the lotto, 10x chance or not"... for a child, there are some things that only adults are equipped to handle, and a valid response isn't to tell a 5 year old "don't go to a man, but do go to a woman". How might that work out at a football/soccer game?
        pbhjpbhj 11y ago
- rdtsc 11y ago
  > "Stranger kidnappings" (where someone the child doesn't know kidnaps them) are incredibly rare, a child is at much more risk from traffic, guns, cancer, or swimming pools. Agreed, I am a parent as well. But a word of warning, you'll get mean looks and talk behind your back from playground parents if you take that attitude. I've seen moms and dads on playground who are way out there in assessing what is threatening and what is not. They'd see a man walking by the playground going by their business and start calling their children closer to them acting all scared. Or make comments about "hmm what are they doing, we haven't seen this person before". Mind you we were not in a crime ridden neighborhood, this is a quiet suburban area. Was going to say "lay of the news people, take it easy" but of course couldn't they'd think I am crazy. Oh and co-worker's neighbor called CPS (child protective services) on them because they were playing by themselves in the cul-de-sac while the parents watched from inside the house. They of course don't know who did it, and even if they knew there no repercussion they could take against that person. They can always claim "they thought of the children", nobody can argue with that...
  - Osiris 11y ago
    I allow my kids to play in our cul-de-sac by themselves all the time. I've never really been worried about them. When I was a kid I'd hop on my bike and my friends and I would ride into town, buy pizza, come home a few hours later. It was normal. This trend toward having to stay within arms reach of your children at all times is, in my opinion, very unhealthy for a child as they don't have opportunities to build confidence and independence.
  - unethical_ban 11y ago
    My parents let me play in the cul-de-sac all the time. It's why we moved to one! One time as an adult, I got a cop called because my music was too loud. The next day, I went to all my adjacent neighbors and said, without malice, "If there are any issues, I'm receptive to being a good neighbor, let me know if I can help". I would have done the same thing in the instance of CPS called on my kids. "Hello, I watch my children and they know how to handle themselves on our home street. If you see a dangerous situation, let me know immediately and we'll work to fix it." Then, if they have any issue with that, we can have it out.
- knodi123 11y ago
  This is not the interesting point of his comment, though. The interesting part is, even in a world where stranger kidnappings were more common - letting the child pick an adult to ask for help is extremely safe. It's letting an adult choose to approach the kid first where the stranger kidnapping even becomes a statistical possibility.
  - paulddraper 11y ago
    Exactly. It's like asking someone to watch your stuff while you go to the bathroom. The chances of picking a thief are low compared to the chances of a thief picking you.
far33d 11y ago
P(adult evil | talk to them) < .0001 P(stranger evil | they talk to you) > .0001
- tgb 11y ago
  In the US there's about 100 child kidnappings by strangers every year [1]. So you're claiming that each year, there are fewer than 10000*100 = 1 million times in the US that a stranger talks to a child. There are 50 million children in the US under age 12 [2], so only one in fifty children would be approached by a stranger in each year. How many times did a stranger talk to you as a child? More than none? Were you kidnapped? [1] http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/national-child-kidnapping.html http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/national-child-kidnapping.ht... [2] http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp
  - slavik81 11y ago
    > How many times did a stranger talk to you as a child? More than none? Were you kidnapped? Just to share anecdotes, I had a few memorable experiences as a kid (and probably many more that I don't remember). A very nice person helped fix my bike chain when it slipped off the gears and got wedged against the frame. Without them, I'd have a long walk home with a stuck back wheel. On another occasion, while I was playing outside my house, a man came by and invited me to attend his church. My parents weren't keen on that, and I was rather uninterested so we never took him up on the offer. I presume he was a Jehova's Witness or a Mormon.
Nelson69 11y ago
Is your spouse cool with that line of thinking? It's legit, odds are nothing bad will happen but we live in a fear based society anymore... I live in a fairly well-to-do bedroom community, it's a rural area a short drive from some bigger cities in Colorado. The neighborhood nextdoor.com info is an interesting read. The sheriff (we don't have town police, it's a small place, 5000ish people) is called for ringing and running, that's like the main offense. It seems like there are fears when there are work men of color in the area doing things (building new houses, etc..) it appears that their presence correlates to the crime of breaking in to cars in neighboring cities, at least in the minds of some. I can confess there is a slight feeling of isolation at times, like if you had a problem you couldn't solve, it could take 15-30minutes for a police officer to help you but in 8 years I'm unaware of such a problem happening in the town. For the most part it is insanely safe, like you could leave your doors unlocked and expect no issues. When my son get's on the school bus, he has to swipe a badge. They can track where he get's on a bus and where he get's off. That's what we've come to. They have 4 different kinds of "drills." There is the fire drill we all grew up with. There is "lock down" where they all stay in their class rooms and lock the doors. There is a harder form of that where they stay in the class rooms, lock all the doors and windows and the try to hide. Then there is a drill where they go in the school basement, being that there are tornados in the area from time to time that's not too unreasonable but the staff is open with parents that it's for the event that there is some sort of a disturbance that is used to draw kids outside to attack in the open. The school itself (this is K-5) has locks on all doors, you have to buzz in, or swipe a badge at any time of day. It's all in how you look at it, I guess. The technology is fairly inexpensive and if it helps with anything, then maybe it seems worth it. It's definitely playing in to the culture of fear that exists though. What's really shocking, at least to me, is how cool everyone seems to be with everything. We got emails from the school when the did some of the drills, just to let us know our kids might tell us about something odd that they did. I can't imagine how they'd possibly let middle-school or younger kids on public transportation around here.
- Afton 11y ago
  My spouse agrees with my logic, but occasionally has pangs of visceral concern. We discuss these issues like adults. :)

by Afton 11y ago

Someone1234 11y ago

Exactly. "Stranger kidnappings" (where someone the child doesn't know kidnaps them) are incredibly rare, a child is at much more risk from traffic, guns, cancer, or swimming pools. The reason why child kidnappings (non-stranger) are seemingly common is because the vast majority of these are by family members (e.g. parents during a custody dispute, grandparents, etc). Child molesters are also very rare (although you can make them seem more common by massaging the statistics, as some charities/politicians/media like to do), and on average in a large retailer there won't even be a single one. There are stories where kids have literally died both because they were scared to approach a stranger, or a stranger was scared to approach them. I have a kid. I am going to teach them to approach any adult, with a slight bias towards people who work there (simply because they are more likely to know the procedure for lost child, not because they're inherently safer/less safe).

hitekker 11y ago
To add to what you're saying: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_danger#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_danger#Criticism
imglorp 11y ago
Also a slight bias towards an adult accompanying children and also bias towards female: ie mommies with strollers are generally okay.
- Someone1234 11y ago
  I won't be teaching my kids that men are inherently dangerous/child molesters. But you're welcome to bring them up that way. Any adult is fine. The chance of them being dangerous is incredibly low, regardless of gender. Plus the whole "men are bad" thing just mixes a simple message up, what if they spot a member of staff somewhere but they're male. Do they approach or do they not? What if a man is the only adult around? To be honest the whole "men are dangerous" thing is very much a large part of the core problem. It is stranger danger all over again.
  - rayiner 11y ago
    Right. It's basic math. Even if 0.1% of men are going to molest a random kid and it's 0.01% for women, there is a 99.9% chance a random man is not a child molester. It's noise. Similar reasoning applies to why you should ignore all the "X doubles the risk of [some rare Y]" stuff you read in the media.
    - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
      So you're buying a lottery ticket - if you buy it from the female cashier you get a 10x chance of winning. Which cashier do you choose?
      - rmxt 11y ago
        No matter who you choose, when you inevitably lose the lottery, you will still only have lost one dollar either way. When a child chooses to not go to an adult at all because only men are around, they might be facing more dire consequences than simply losing a dollar. A valid response to playing the lottery is "don't play the lotto, 10x chance or not"... for a child, there are some things that only adults are equipped to handle, and a valid response isn't to tell a 5 year old "don't go to a man, but do go to a woman". How might that work out at a football/soccer game?
        pbhjpbhj 11y ago
rdtsc 11y ago
> "Stranger kidnappings" (where someone the child doesn't know kidnaps them) are incredibly rare, a child is at much more risk from traffic, guns, cancer, or swimming pools. Agreed, I am a parent as well. But a word of warning, you'll get mean looks and talk behind your back from playground parents if you take that attitude. I've seen moms and dads on playground who are way out there in assessing what is threatening and what is not. They'd see a man walking by the playground going by their business and start calling their children closer to them acting all scared. Or make comments about "hmm what are they doing, we haven't seen this person before". Mind you we were not in a crime ridden neighborhood, this is a quiet suburban area. Was going to say "lay of the news people, take it easy" but of course couldn't they'd think I am crazy. Oh and co-worker's neighbor called CPS (child protective services) on them because they were playing by themselves in the cul-de-sac while the parents watched from inside the house. They of course don't know who did it, and even if they knew there no repercussion they could take against that person. They can always claim "they thought of the children", nobody can argue with that...
- Osiris 11y ago
  I allow my kids to play in our cul-de-sac by themselves all the time. I've never really been worried about them. When I was a kid I'd hop on my bike and my friends and I would ride into town, buy pizza, come home a few hours later. It was normal. This trend toward having to stay within arms reach of your children at all times is, in my opinion, very unhealthy for a child as they don't have opportunities to build confidence and independence.
- unethical_ban 11y ago
  My parents let me play in the cul-de-sac all the time. It's why we moved to one! One time as an adult, I got a cop called because my music was too loud. The next day, I went to all my adjacent neighbors and said, without malice, "If there are any issues, I'm receptive to being a good neighbor, let me know if I can help". I would have done the same thing in the instance of CPS called on my kids. "Hello, I watch my children and they know how to handle themselves on our home street. If you see a dangerous situation, let me know immediately and we'll work to fix it." Then, if they have any issue with that, we can have it out.
knodi123 11y ago
This is not the interesting point of his comment, though. The interesting part is, even in a world where stranger kidnappings were more common - letting the child pick an adult to ask for help is extremely safe. It's letting an adult choose to approach the kid first where the stranger kidnapping even becomes a statistical possibility.
- paulddraper 11y ago
  Exactly. It's like asking someone to watch your stuff while you go to the bathroom. The chances of picking a thief are low compared to the chances of a thief picking you.

far33d 11y ago

P(adult evil | talk to them) < .0001 P(stranger evil | they talk to you) > .0001

tgb 11y ago
In the US there's about 100 child kidnappings by strangers every year [1]. So you're claiming that each year, there are fewer than 10000*100 = 1 million times in the US that a stranger talks to a child. There are 50 million children in the US under age 12 [2], so only one in fifty children would be approached by a stranger in each year. How many times did a stranger talk to you as a child? More than none? Were you kidnapped? [1] http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/national-child-kidnapping.html http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/national-child-kidnapping.ht... [2] http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp
- slavik81 11y ago
  > How many times did a stranger talk to you as a child? More than none? Were you kidnapped? Just to share anecdotes, I had a few memorable experiences as a kid (and probably many more that I don't remember). A very nice person helped fix my bike chain when it slipped off the gears and got wedged against the frame. Without them, I'd have a long walk home with a stuck back wheel. On another occasion, while I was playing outside my house, a man came by and invited me to attend his church. My parents weren't keen on that, and I was rather uninterested so we never took him up on the offer. I presume he was a Jehova's Witness or a Mormon.

Nelson69 11y ago

Is your spouse cool with that line of thinking? It's legit, odds are nothing bad will happen but we live in a fear based society anymore... I live in a fairly well-to-do bedroom community, it's a rural area a short drive from some bigger cities in Colorado. The neighborhood nextdoor.com info is an interesting read. The sheriff (we don't have town police, it's a small place, 5000ish people) is called for ringing and running, that's like the main offense. It seems like there are fears when there are work men of color in the area doing things (building new houses, etc..) it appears that their presence correlates to the crime of breaking in to cars in neighboring cities, at least in the minds of some. I can confess there is a slight feeling of isolation at times, like if you had a problem you couldn't solve, it could take 15-30minutes for a police officer to help you but in 8 years I'm unaware of such a problem happening in the town. For the most part it is insanely safe, like you could leave your doors unlocked and expect no issues. When my son get's on the school bus, he has to swipe a badge. They can track where he get's on a bus and where he get's off. That's what we've come to. They have 4 different kinds of "drills." There is the fire drill we all grew up with. There is "lock down" where they all stay in their class rooms and lock the doors. There is a harder form of that where they stay in the class rooms, lock all the doors and windows and the try to hide. Then there is a drill where they go in the school basement, being that there are tornados in the area from time to time that's not too unreasonable but the staff is open with parents that it's for the event that there is some sort of a disturbance that is used to draw kids outside to attack in the open. The school itself (this is K-5) has locks on all doors, you have to buzz in, or swipe a badge at any time of day. It's all in how you look at it, I guess. The technology is fairly inexpensive and if it helps with anything, then maybe it seems worth it. It's definitely playing in to the culture of fear that exists though. What's really shocking, at least to me, is how cool everyone seems to be with everything. We got emails from the school when the did some of the drills, just to let us know our kids might tell us about something odd that they did. I can't imagine how they'd possibly let middle-school or younger kids on public transportation around here.

Afton 11y ago
My spouse agrees with my logic, but occasionally has pangs of visceral concern. We discuss these issues like adults. :)