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If only Project Fi's cost/gb were competitive with T-Mobile so I could jump ship. For my volume of use (5-10GB/mo) T-Mobile is the cheapest provider in town. G

If only Project Fi's cost/gb were competitive with T-Mobile so I could jump ship. For my volume of use (5-10GB/mo) T-Mobile is the cheapest provider in town. Google's convergence (i.e. bundling Fi+Fiber) in this space would be exciting if they could get their MVNO pricing competitive but I guess they'd have to buy T-Mobile or Sprint to make that happen because they're not going to sell minutes or data at a loss.

netneutralish 11y ago
For my volume of use (5-10GB/mo) T-Mobile is the cheapest provider in town. It's even cheaper if you don't opt out of BingeOn and can tolerate DVD (480p24) quality video streaming on your wireless device.
mikeash 11y ago
As long as people prioritize price above all other things, shenanigans like this will keep happening. If you're not willing to pay more for better service then your likes or dislikes don't matter in the end.
- toolz 11y ago
  That's simply not true at all, if you're paying the lowest, that means you value money over extra service and provided ample opportunities for competition in the market place and customers that want cheap service. They'll get what they want. If there isn't ample competition or near perfect legislation, it doesn't matter what you pay, the service will eventually be held by a monopoly that can do almost whatever they damn well please. You don't fight monopolies by paying more money, because as long as that's your only focus, the bar to entering the market will continue to rise until eventually you can't afford the `good guy`.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    There's no monopoly in the US cell phone market. Competition is decently robust, with four major networks and a buttload of MVNOs. Right now, one network is pulling this throttling bullshit. If you don't like it, there are other choices. If you say "I wish I could switch but T-Mobile is cheaper" then what you're actually saying is that you don't care about the issue enough to pay for it, and that means the providers have no reason to care about it.
    - maxsilver 11y ago
      > one network is pulling this throttling bullshit. They're all doing something major that violates Net Neutrality. Sprint's compresses images and throttles video https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sprint%20compressing%20images https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e... They just don't advertise compression/throttling as a "feature", so it doesn't get the publicity. Sprint also does zero-rating for music. AT&T has "Sponsored Data" and throttles 'unlimited' plans, and Verizon has their ad-tracking-injection mess. Whoever I pay is going to get money for "pulling bullshit". I love the idea of voting with your dollar, but all of the major cell networks are anti-Net-Neutrality in multiple ways, so the whole thing is almost a false choice.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        I don't see how throttling "unlimited" plans is a net neutrality problem, but other than that, point taken. The comment I replied to mentions Project Fi, do they avoid all this? Aside: not that this really makes it better, but AT&T's list of Sponsored Data providers is full of hilariously obscure companies: http://www.att.com/att/sponsoreddata/en/index.html http://www.att.com/att/sponsoreddata/en/index.html
        netneutralish 11y ago
        I don't see how throttling "unlimited" plans is a net neutrality problem It's one of the examples given during the FCC's bright-line guidance ( https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-332260A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-332260A1.p...): However, the network practice must be primarily used for and tailored to achieving a legitimate network management and not business purpose. For example, a provider can’t cite reasonable network management to justify reneging on its promise to supply a customer with “unlimited” data.
        mikeash 11y ago
        I still don't see how it's a net neutrality problem. Promising "unlimited" and then not providing it is a bad thing, certainly, but it's either false advertising or a failure to abide by the service contract, not a net neutrality violation.
- matwood 11y ago
  I value price and service, both of which TMO wins for my use case today. I get we are talking about the future and where things can go, but the now is that they are the most customer friendly large wireless provider out there.
- rifung 11y ago
  Well, T Mobile also is the first carrier to do away with subscriptions which I support. Sure, I don't agree with everything they do but as far as I can tell they are the most agreeable of the bunch.
VikingCoder 11y ago
Google should REALLY develop a tool that lets you effectively estimate how much of your 5-10GB/mo would actually end up going over WiFi (and thus not cost you any Project Fi bits.)
- Skunkleton 11y ago
  That 5-10 GB number is probably only mobile data, which is the number that shows up on your bill.
  - VikingCoder 11y ago
    Remember, a critical part of Google Fi is that it's supposed to automatically switch your voice and data to WiFi, and that Google has rigged partnerships such that they have lots of WiFi available for you to use. So, if you currently use 5-10 GB/mo on one carrier, the theory is that you'll use less - possibly significantly less - on Google Fi.
    - russell_h 11y ago
      Google Fi user here. I don't think there is any "partnership", the "Wifi Assistant" feature just joins open wifi networks. It does do two neat things: first, it establishes a VPN tunnel through a Google controlled endpoint. Second, they seem to have a database tracking the quality of wifi networks. It won't join networks that are known to be slow, and if a network gets too slow it will automatically disconnect. In practice though, almost every open wifi network is slow. Much slower than LTE, and certainly not something you could reasonably make a voice call over. Overall I'm relatively happy with Fi. The service is a little better than T-Mobile (still not as good as AT&T) and the management interface is dead simple. Its what a software startup would build if they went into the cellular carrier business. And for my level of usage (3-4GB/month) the price is similar to T-Mobile. But don't expect it to save you bandwidth.
      - bduerst 11y ago
        Does international work? (Considering it's on top of T Mobile)
heimatau 11y ago
Project Fi is all about buying usage from T-Mobile and Sprint. It's a blend of the two services, providing 'the best experience' between the two. Give it enough time, Project Fi might change the game but it's a long way off, since they don't have the scale nor can you use every phone on their leased network.

netneutralish 11y ago

For my volume of use (5-10GB/mo) T-Mobile is the cheapest provider in town. It's even cheaper if you don't opt out of BingeOn and can tolerate DVD (480p24) quality video streaming on your wireless device.

mikeash 11y ago

As long as people prioritize price above all other things, shenanigans like this will keep happening. If you're not willing to pay more for better service then your likes or dislikes don't matter in the end.

toolz 11y ago
That's simply not true at all, if you're paying the lowest, that means you value money over extra service and provided ample opportunities for competition in the market place and customers that want cheap service. They'll get what they want. If there isn't ample competition or near perfect legislation, it doesn't matter what you pay, the service will eventually be held by a monopoly that can do almost whatever they damn well please. You don't fight monopolies by paying more money, because as long as that's your only focus, the bar to entering the market will continue to rise until eventually you can't afford the `good guy`.
- mikeash 11y ago
  There's no monopoly in the US cell phone market. Competition is decently robust, with four major networks and a buttload of MVNOs. Right now, one network is pulling this throttling bullshit. If you don't like it, there are other choices. If you say "I wish I could switch but T-Mobile is cheaper" then what you're actually saying is that you don't care about the issue enough to pay for it, and that means the providers have no reason to care about it.
  - maxsilver 11y ago
    > one network is pulling this throttling bullshit. They're all doing something major that violates Net Neutrality. Sprint's compresses images and throttles video https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sprint%20compressing%20images https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e... They just don't advertise compression/throttling as a "feature", so it doesn't get the publicity. Sprint also does zero-rating for music. AT&T has "Sponsored Data" and throttles 'unlimited' plans, and Verizon has their ad-tracking-injection mess. Whoever I pay is going to get money for "pulling bullshit". I love the idea of voting with your dollar, but all of the major cell networks are anti-Net-Neutrality in multiple ways, so the whole thing is almost a false choice.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      I don't see how throttling "unlimited" plans is a net neutrality problem, but other than that, point taken. The comment I replied to mentions Project Fi, do they avoid all this? Aside: not that this really makes it better, but AT&T's list of Sponsored Data providers is full of hilariously obscure companies: http://www.att.com/att/sponsoreddata/en/index.html http://www.att.com/att/sponsoreddata/en/index.html
      - netneutralish 11y ago
        I don't see how throttling "unlimited" plans is a net neutrality problem It's one of the examples given during the FCC's bright-line guidance ( https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-332260A1.pdf https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-332260A1.p...): However, the network practice must be primarily used for and tailored to achieving a legitimate network management and not business purpose. For example, a provider can’t cite reasonable network management to justify reneging on its promise to supply a customer with “unlimited” data.
        mikeash 11y ago
        I still don't see how it's a net neutrality problem. Promising "unlimited" and then not providing it is a bad thing, certainly, but it's either false advertising or a failure to abide by the service contract, not a net neutrality violation.
matwood 11y ago
I value price and service, both of which TMO wins for my use case today. I get we are talking about the future and where things can go, but the now is that they are the most customer friendly large wireless provider out there.
rifung 11y ago
Well, T Mobile also is the first carrier to do away with subscriptions which I support. Sure, I don't agree with everything they do but as far as I can tell they are the most agreeable of the bunch.

VikingCoder 11y ago

Google should REALLY develop a tool that lets you effectively estimate how much of your 5-10GB/mo would actually end up going over WiFi (and thus not cost you any Project Fi bits.)

Skunkleton 11y ago
That 5-10 GB number is probably only mobile data, which is the number that shows up on your bill.
- VikingCoder 11y ago
  Remember, a critical part of Google Fi is that it's supposed to automatically switch your voice and data to WiFi, and that Google has rigged partnerships such that they have lots of WiFi available for you to use. So, if you currently use 5-10 GB/mo on one carrier, the theory is that you'll use less - possibly significantly less - on Google Fi.
  - russell_h 11y ago
    Google Fi user here. I don't think there is any "partnership", the "Wifi Assistant" feature just joins open wifi networks. It does do two neat things: first, it establishes a VPN tunnel through a Google controlled endpoint. Second, they seem to have a database tracking the quality of wifi networks. It won't join networks that are known to be slow, and if a network gets too slow it will automatically disconnect. In practice though, almost every open wifi network is slow. Much slower than LTE, and certainly not something you could reasonably make a voice call over. Overall I'm relatively happy with Fi. The service is a little better than T-Mobile (still not as good as AT&T) and the management interface is dead simple. Its what a software startup would build if they went into the cellular carrier business. And for my level of usage (3-4GB/month) the price is similar to T-Mobile. But don't expect it to save you bandwidth.
    - bduerst 11y ago
      Does international work? (Considering it's on top of T Mobile)

heimatau 11y ago

Project Fi is all about buying usage from T-Mobile and Sprint. It's a blend of the two services, providing 'the best experience' between the two. Give it enough time, Project Fi might change the game but it's a long way off, since they don't have the scale nor can you use every phone on their leased network.