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Theranos Wellness Centers Aren’t Using “Nanotainers” at This Time

91 points by oznathan 11y ago

codezero 11y ago
There has been a lot of critical attention towards theranos. I have no opinion whether it is granted or not, in general I feel critical is always good, but the volume is so high, does anyone have any insight into the intense scrutiny theranos is receiving?
- Aleman360 11y ago
  I suspect it's because medical stuff deserves more scrutiny than the average tech startup.
  - codezero 11y ago
    This is a great point. Thanks for pointing it out.
- danso 11y ago
  The origin story of Theranos is carved from pure Silicon Valley mythril: 19-year-old drops out of Stanford to build a massively disruptive startup and in short-order, receives hundreds of millions in funding and near-decaunicorn valuation. On top of that, the founder is a photogenic woman who dresses and speaks and acts as if she were Steve Jobs incarnate. And unlike Facebook and most other tech startups, Theranos was outright in its mission about achieving a meaningful and life-saving benefit for all of humanity. In the current debacle, you again have all the classic ingredients in force: pride goeth before a fall, the extreme secrecy, the aristocracy > meritocracy, venture capitalists all wearing the VC equivalent of beer-goggles, the ignorance and laziness of tech media exposed. You even have a co-inventor who committed suicide and, for no obvious reason, Henry Kissinger is just hanging out. The fact that Theranos aimed so high in its disruptive mission has come to bite it a bit...it's one thing to butt heads against government regulations when just making it easier for people to catch a ride or sleep on a couch. A lot different when you're allegedly subverting regulations explicitly constructed around human health. Basically, there's popcorn for everyone.
  - codezero 11y ago
    What does this have to do with the photogenicness of the founder? What exactly did Theranos do wrong here as a company? How does she dress? It didn't even seem like a favor. Does she wear black turtlenecks and jeans? I'm really confused about your comment. Does it address what I asked at all? Can you elaborate?
    - danso 11y ago
      Yes, she wore black turtlenecks...according to reports, every day since the company was started. Why does being photogenic matter? Because you're more likely to have a massive photo spread/cover devoted to you. Steve Jobs himself was very photogenic. But Theranos is much more affected by Holmes as the face of the company. Because the company never talked about its tech in detail, there wasn't much else to focus on except the youth and passion of its founder.
    - Nutmog 11y ago
      Those were reasons why the media and public are interested in it. Yes she does wear black turtlenecks. I'm sure the way she dresses is part of why people are so interested in the stories. It's probably largely schadenfreude, the kind the celebrities are usually subject to when they put on weight or get arrested.
      - joezydeco 11y ago
        I don't agree that this is schadenfreude. Here was a company that popped up, literally out of nowhere, claiming to have a handle on microfluidic diagnostic assays...something that the major players in the industry haven't been able to get off the ground since ELISA came along in the 1960s. The skeptics were quiet at first. I mean shit, they landed Walgreen's and Kroeger! It must work, right? Now we discover a little more of the truth and it's a lot safer to say "put up or shut up".
        kzhahou 11y ago
        It's absolutely schadenfreude! Company appears to have led VCs, investors, and the public, and is actually getting called out for it. Lots of people (myself included) thought the whole thing smelled funny a while back.
- Dr_tldr 11y ago
  So your question isn't "what's going on here?" but "why do so many people want to know what's going on here?" Is Theranos holding open tryouts for their PR department or something?
  - codezero 11y ago
    Nope. It's definitely what's going on here. Sorry I'm not very good at enunciating that. It sounds like Theranos is providing a really useful service but there are a lot of hurdles and they are either not doing anything new, or they are and it's not better than what already exists, but it is hard for a casual observer which is all I am to know which it is.
    - Dr_tldr 11y ago
      Yeah, I just re-read your original post and realized you're probably not a native speaker of english (or were writing in a hurry on a phone), my apologies! Theranos is catching a lot of flak right now because they claim to be a company founded on this awesome new technology, but they seem to be use existing technologies for all the services they currently offer, they won't show people their wonder-device, and the story of the way the company was initially funded and valued keeps getting sketchier.
      - codezero 11y ago
        Writing in a hurry on a phone after a few beers and a hockey game. :)
      - codezero 11y ago
        The use of existing technologies seems like an unimportant factor. Uber uses cars, more to the point they started using private limo contractors and still do. They nonetheless provided a service above and beyond what you could get before. Is Theranos using existing technologies and still not providing value above the incumbents? This is what I really want to know. I just don't know.
        11y ago
- Pyxl101 11y ago
  It's a company with a high valuation, that's raised a lot of money and has been in the industry for 11 years (if I recall correctly) by now. Investigative journalism raised concerns that the company is a sham, which the company exacerbated by reacting in a secretive and defensive way - unorthodox approach for a company working in a field where scientific testing and results are the norm, and where breakthroughs are patented and (eventually) shared somewhat openly. Imagine if a search company like Google had been founded 11 years ago, and claims to have revolutionized web search, but then a reporter exposed that they don't actually use any of their own search technology at all (!), and instead they pay to license Microsoft's search technology Bing instead (!). And a major industry regulator has claimed they're operating outside regulation (FDA in this case for Theranos). When challenged about whether their technology works, they respond with what amounts to hot air and empty claims. That's where Theranos is right now. I was inclined to side with Theranos initially, since I've seen my own share of reporting hit-pieces where my insider knowledge made it clear the reporting was highly biased and essentially nothing but an all-out attack on the company. However, my opinion of them has been turning toward skepticism since I've seen them respond to criticism in a secretive way and by failing to substantiate their claims about their product. The cynical part of me is beginning to believe that Theranos is refusing to share real details because the data doesn't look good for them. If Theranos has not developed any commercially viable breakthrough technology for fingertip blood draws, and will continue to operate indefinitely by conducting regular venous draws using other firms' equipment, then their investment value cannot be sustained, because that's a substantially weaker business model, and different than what was claimed. Selling fingertip testing on breakthrough technology would make them highly differentiated (unique, only ones to do it), whereas reselling other firms' venous draw technology is minimally differentiated (they'd just be a lab, same as any other). Hacker News is a forum of entrepreneurial and hacker-minded folks, and I think we're all worried about what it means for that sector of the industry, or the tech industry as a whole, if the company turns out to have been a sham. It would not be good for Silicon Valley if Theranos turns out to be anything close to a Ponzi scheme. If in the end it's discovered that Theranos' technology does not work, that's how they may be viewed. It's an interesting story that concerns people.
  - codezero 11y ago
- discodave 11y ago
  1. Multi billion dollar valuation. 2. In the health space, being trustworthy is kinda important.
  - codezero 11y ago
    Are the incumbents really trustworthy? I don't think so, but I guess it's becaus the entire industry is so nebulous.
    - bigchewy 11y ago
      yes, by and large the incumbents comply with regulations, use industry standard equipment that has been tested and approved as being accurate for its intended use, etc.
      - codezero 11y ago
        Ok so if Theranos is using the same equipment and tests, what are they doing wrong?
        danso 11y ago
        Not being forthright about the scope of their technological progress and innovation, which is ostensibly the basis of its $9 billion valuation.
        codezero 11y ago
        Who must they be forthright to? I mean, I agree, obviously, but if they aren't forthright and their investors are still paying, the investors suffer, how is the consumer suffering here? Are they promising a product that they aren't delivering? Sorry, I know I'm being difficult here, I would really love to chat with someone who is very invested either for or against, or both, this approach, so that I can understand better. Seriously, if you, or you know anyone who has time to chat about this, send me an email. I don't intend to be as contrarian as I know I appear to be (and probably am being) here. I really care, and just for purely reasons of curiosity. Anyways, ping me if we can chat.
- randycupertino 11y ago
  It's because Theranos with it's pretty blonde Stanford dropout founder was an absolute media darling for 7 months to a year, could do no wrong, had heaps of fawning puff piece press. Now that their questionable tech has come to light, the press feels burned and is vengeful of being caught giving them a blowjob without due diligence. So now the media swings the opposite way and lashes out at Theranos to overcompensate.
  - codezero 11y ago
    again, why does the attractiveness and hair color of the founder have anything to do with this discussion?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - anon8418 11y ago
      Because it was an influencing factor in the initial media infatuation with Theranos. If u goto their website a lot of the media and copy is very founder-specific. Almost like they are trying to build some cult of personality around her.
    - randycupertino 11y ago
      Because they used it as a way to cultivate attention to their company. She was a Glamour "Woman of the Year" http://fortune.com/2015/10/29/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabeth-holmes-feminist-icon/ http://fortune.com/2015/10/29/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabeth... Her pedigree, looks, family $$, being a Stanford dropout, blonde haircut, blue eyes, Steve Jobs drag and surfer voice (she took vocal coaching to deepen her voice to sound more like a leader) all combined as tantalizing catnip to the press. Theranos knew this and purposely stirred up a media storm focusing singularly on Holmes, NOT on the technology. Almost like it was constructed like a sleight of hand so everyone would be distracted by the cult of personality around the pretty blonde founder and ignore their lack of peer reviewed research that their testing methods actually worked.
    - eruditely 11y ago
swingbridge 11y ago
In general if a company is unfairly receiving bad press claiming its product is a sham, the usual response is to counteract that by being open and transparent and allowing independent assessment to disprove such claims. Want to pop in unannounced to test our product? Sure, no problem, let us show you how wonderful things are. The fact that they keep acting all shady doesn't bode well for their efforts to claim that the current criticism against their product and leadership is inaccurate or unfair.
- cat-dev-null 11y ago
  It doesn't look like they're "acting shady," but that Walgreens + Theranos hasn't streamlined their bureaucracy and user experience which promotes the value-add of change instead of offering a lesser experience (like the much touted credit card chip, which takes longer and not as forgiving to user interaction as the ol' magstripe). Most of the time, the only lab work I trust Walgreens with is a cholesterol test and a flu shot... If they can actually deliver the former without some complicated extra option or cost, then it's a no-brainer that it should be the default, not some hidden option that almost no one knows about. Definitely an advertising / customer education epic fail.
  - wavefunction 11y ago
    I agree with swingbridge, they're "acting all shady." Especially if you've seen their public press appearances.
    - randycupertino 11y ago
      Totally agree, they are extremely shady. Especially when they started actively cultivating press this past spring, and a few months ago and suddenly they're shocked and pissed off that not all their press is glowing.
SilasX 11y ago
No knowledge of the biotech, but this is really shady. Above-board companies simply do not look like this. 1) Refusal to use the ground-breaking technology: >Then I asked about what Theranos calls “nanotainers” or tiny vials that can give you test results with a single drop of blood. >“Oh you have to order that separately,” she informed me. “We take those intravenously if you bundle a bunch of tests together.” >[...]I then informed them I was a journalist and would like to take the test separately to test the technology. They told me I would still need to order it separately. 2) Sudden delays and bizarre excuses when you insist on using their ground-breaking technology and identify as a journalist: > So I went to order it separately. >That’s when things got weird. It took much longer to process this separate order at the counter. I was told it was because they had to manually type in my order on the other end. >[...]I spoke with Chris, the Theranos manager, on the phone who informed me it was about supplies. Okay, but the people with the supplies to administer [the] test thought I could take it until management said they could not that day. 3) Extreme concern with following a central PR script when people ask questions: >Then I walked myself back to the testing center and could overhear one of the women on the phone with management in a panicked voice telling them I was a journalist doing an investigative piece (I wasn’t, just curious as to how it worked). 4) Scouts that are instructed to alert central command whenever people start asking questions (edit: especially when that was during a patient consultation): >I reached out to Theranos head of communications Brooke Buchanan for an explanation as well. She’d already been informed I was in the store today. 5) Insistence that you check only specific cases of their product: > I was asked why I chose not to go to the Theranos main office in Palo Alto for a test instead [of the Walgreen's location the author went to]. Also -- just a personal observation -- the use of the phrase "at this time" strongly correlates with how badly someone wants you to stop asking questions (police officers citing you, HR employees with bad news, PR spokespeople in a bind, etc).
- Animats 11y ago
  "Scouts that are instructed to alert central command whenever people start asking questions, especially when that was during a patient consultation." That's a HIPPA violation.[1] The article author asks others to write to her about their experiences with Theranos "nanotainer" tests. [1] https://www.hipaa.com/the-reality-of-hipaa-violations-and-enforcement/ https://www.hipaa.com/the-reality-of-hipaa-violations-and-en...
adevine 11y ago
To me, one of the sad things about the Theranos debacle is that even if they DON'T have super whiz-bang nanotainer technology, the general model of having affordable, transparently priced tests where you can just walk into a Walgreen's and order them is pretty awesome in my opinion. There are other companies that offer something somewhat similar (e.g. AnyLabTestNow), but the experience still sucks - locations/times are nowhere near as convenient as your local drug store, and the tests are expensive. I don't know how much Theranos' price reduction is dependent on its nanotainer tech, but if someone came in and offered an affordable service like CVS's minute clinics, but for tests, I'd use it, even if they had to do normal draws.
- sandGorgon 11y ago
  Is this something innovative? In india, i just paid 90$ and got 14 different tests including tumor markers tested for. The blood was collected at home (and then sent to a central testing facility). Unless, it is radically new technology... I'm curious on the value proposition here.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - firasd 11y ago
    Yes, the customer-friendly blood testing in India would be incredibly "disruptive" to American lab tests. Not only does the US have different costs and regulations but the medical industry is based on extracting money from insurance companies so every process is a bit occluded. That said, Theranos is still on the hook because a business model innovation would probably not justify their valuation and PR compared to a tech innovation.
    - adevine 11y ago
      If it were just a business model innovation, Theranos would rightly be worth nothing, because they wouldn't bring anything to the table. CVS or Walgreen's have all the assets that would be worth anything in this situation.
empressplay 11y ago
Some commenters are making me wonder if Theranos' new narrative is that their value proposition is opening blood collection facilities in drug stores / supermarkets. If it is, and Theranos feels this "new" value proposition is enough to justify their valuation, I'm not sure what they're smoking, but I would sure like some!
joshpadnick 11y ago
I live in Phoenix, AZ and voluntarily sought out a Theranos test as part of an annual check-up last January. My PCP (primary care physician) ordered a bunch of blood tests, and I made the call to use a Theranos center at Walgreens. I showed up and they already had the order. I was advised that my insurance probably would not be accepted, but the total cost for a CBC, Lipid Panel, and 2 other blood tests was $42 cash so no insurance coverage was STILL cheaper than my covered labs. To draw the blood, a near-painless prick of my finger was used to fill I believe 2 nanotainers. A few days later, the results were sent to my PCP (though for some reason never to me). The entire process was (nearly) painless, extremely affordable, and convenient. I can't speak beyond my personal experience to the broader allegations, but I have to say that the vibe I got from the whole experience is that the innovation is real. Cheap tests I can order directly that are quicker to take and nearly pain-free? Yes, please! But based on mixed signals in the media, there is now an open question on whether the test results are in fact accurate. Also, although the company responded publicly to the allegations[1], for some reason the pitchforks haven't gone away. It also does seem like the transparency has left a little to be desired. Maybe this would spill key trade secrets? Sadly, given all the media confusion, I don't feel I can trust the results of a Theranos test anymore, but that's mostly because of all the media noise, and nothing to do with my experience itself. Hopefully, they can find a way to restore confidence in the service. If it delivers on the promise, it would be transformative. [1] https://www.theranos.com/news/posts/custom/theranos-facts https://www.theranos.com/news/posts/custom/theranos-facts
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  > But based on mixed signals in the media, there is now an open question on whether the test results are in fact accurate. Were yours?
  - joshpadnick 11y ago
    That's the problem. I have no way of knowing since I didn't also get the same blood tests from a conventional lab. So I have no baseline to compare them to.

91 points by oznathan 11y ago

There has been a lot of critical attention towards theranos. I have no opinion whether it is granted or not, in general I feel critical is always good, but the volume is so high, does anyone have any insight into the intense scrutiny theranos is receiving?

Aleman360 11y ago
I suspect it's because medical stuff deserves more scrutiny than the average tech startup.
- codezero 11y ago
  This is a great point. Thanks for pointing it out.
danso 11y ago
The origin story of Theranos is carved from pure Silicon Valley mythril: 19-year-old drops out of Stanford to build a massively disruptive startup and in short-order, receives hundreds of millions in funding and near-decaunicorn valuation. On top of that, the founder is a photogenic woman who dresses and speaks and acts as if she were Steve Jobs incarnate. And unlike Facebook and most other tech startups, Theranos was outright in its mission about achieving a meaningful and life-saving benefit for all of humanity. In the current debacle, you again have all the classic ingredients in force: pride goeth before a fall, the extreme secrecy, the aristocracy > meritocracy, venture capitalists all wearing the VC equivalent of beer-goggles, the ignorance and laziness of tech media exposed. You even have a co-inventor who committed suicide and, for no obvious reason, Henry Kissinger is just hanging out. The fact that Theranos aimed so high in its disruptive mission has come to bite it a bit...it's one thing to butt heads against government regulations when just making it easier for people to catch a ride or sleep on a couch. A lot different when you're allegedly subverting regulations explicitly constructed around human health. Basically, there's popcorn for everyone.
- codezero 11y ago
  What does this have to do with the photogenicness of the founder? What exactly did Theranos do wrong here as a company? How does she dress? It didn't even seem like a favor. Does she wear black turtlenecks and jeans? I'm really confused about your comment. Does it address what I asked at all? Can you elaborate?
  - danso 11y ago
    Yes, she wore black turtlenecks...according to reports, every day since the company was started. Why does being photogenic matter? Because you're more likely to have a massive photo spread/cover devoted to you. Steve Jobs himself was very photogenic. But Theranos is much more affected by Holmes as the face of the company. Because the company never talked about its tech in detail, there wasn't much else to focus on except the youth and passion of its founder.
  - Nutmog 11y ago
    Those were reasons why the media and public are interested in it. Yes she does wear black turtlenecks. I'm sure the way she dresses is part of why people are so interested in the stories. It's probably largely schadenfreude, the kind the celebrities are usually subject to when they put on weight or get arrested.
    - joezydeco 11y ago
      I don't agree that this is schadenfreude. Here was a company that popped up, literally out of nowhere, claiming to have a handle on microfluidic diagnostic assays...something that the major players in the industry haven't been able to get off the ground since ELISA came along in the 1960s. The skeptics were quiet at first. I mean shit, they landed Walgreen's and Kroeger! It must work, right? Now we discover a little more of the truth and it's a lot safer to say "put up or shut up".
      - kzhahou 11y ago
        It's absolutely schadenfreude! Company appears to have led VCs, investors, and the public, and is actually getting called out for it. Lots of people (myself included) thought the whole thing smelled funny a while back.
Dr_tldr 11y ago
So your question isn't "what's going on here?" but "why do so many people want to know what's going on here?" Is Theranos holding open tryouts for their PR department or something?
- codezero 11y ago
  Nope. It's definitely what's going on here. Sorry I'm not very good at enunciating that. It sounds like Theranos is providing a really useful service but there are a lot of hurdles and they are either not doing anything new, or they are and it's not better than what already exists, but it is hard for a casual observer which is all I am to know which it is.
  - Dr_tldr 11y ago
    Yeah, I just re-read your original post and realized you're probably not a native speaker of english (or were writing in a hurry on a phone), my apologies! Theranos is catching a lot of flak right now because they claim to be a company founded on this awesome new technology, but they seem to be use existing technologies for all the services they currently offer, they won't show people their wonder-device, and the story of the way the company was initially funded and valued keeps getting sketchier.
    - codezero 11y ago
      Writing in a hurry on a phone after a few beers and a hockey game. :)
    - codezero 11y ago
      The use of existing technologies seems like an unimportant factor. Uber uses cars, more to the point they started using private limo contractors and still do. They nonetheless provided a service above and beyond what you could get before. Is Theranos using existing technologies and still not providing value above the incumbents? This is what I really want to know. I just don't know.
      - 11y ago
Pyxl101 11y ago
It's a company with a high valuation, that's raised a lot of money and has been in the industry for 11 years (if I recall correctly) by now. Investigative journalism raised concerns that the company is a sham, which the company exacerbated by reacting in a secretive and defensive way - unorthodox approach for a company working in a field where scientific testing and results are the norm, and where breakthroughs are patented and (eventually) shared somewhat openly. Imagine if a search company like Google had been founded 11 years ago, and claims to have revolutionized web search, but then a reporter exposed that they don't actually use any of their own search technology at all (!), and instead they pay to license Microsoft's search technology Bing instead (!). And a major industry regulator has claimed they're operating outside regulation (FDA in this case for Theranos). When challenged about whether their technology works, they respond with what amounts to hot air and empty claims. That's where Theranos is right now. I was inclined to side with Theranos initially, since I've seen my own share of reporting hit-pieces where my insider knowledge made it clear the reporting was highly biased and essentially nothing but an all-out attack on the company. However, my opinion of them has been turning toward skepticism since I've seen them respond to criticism in a secretive way and by failing to substantiate their claims about their product. The cynical part of me is beginning to believe that Theranos is refusing to share real details because the data doesn't look good for them. If Theranos has not developed any commercially viable breakthrough technology for fingertip blood draws, and will continue to operate indefinitely by conducting regular venous draws using other firms' equipment, then their investment value cannot be sustained, because that's a substantially weaker business model, and different than what was claimed. Selling fingertip testing on breakthrough technology would make them highly differentiated (unique, only ones to do it), whereas reselling other firms' venous draw technology is minimally differentiated (they'd just be a lab, same as any other). Hacker News is a forum of entrepreneurial and hacker-minded folks, and I think we're all worried about what it means for that sector of the industry, or the tech industry as a whole, if the company turns out to have been a sham. It would not be good for Silicon Valley if Theranos turns out to be anything close to a Ponzi scheme. If in the end it's discovered that Theranos' technology does not work, that's how they may be viewed. It's an interesting story that concerns people.
- codezero 11y ago
discodave 11y ago
1. Multi billion dollar valuation. 2. In the health space, being trustworthy is kinda important.
- codezero 11y ago
  Are the incumbents really trustworthy? I don't think so, but I guess it's becaus the entire industry is so nebulous.
  - bigchewy 11y ago
    yes, by and large the incumbents comply with regulations, use industry standard equipment that has been tested and approved as being accurate for its intended use, etc.
    - codezero 11y ago
      Ok so if Theranos is using the same equipment and tests, what are they doing wrong?
      - danso 11y ago
        Not being forthright about the scope of their technological progress and innovation, which is ostensibly the basis of its $9 billion valuation.
        codezero 11y ago
        Who must they be forthright to? I mean, I agree, obviously, but if they aren't forthright and their investors are still paying, the investors suffer, how is the consumer suffering here? Are they promising a product that they aren't delivering? Sorry, I know I'm being difficult here, I would really love to chat with someone who is very invested either for or against, or both, this approach, so that I can understand better. Seriously, if you, or you know anyone who has time to chat about this, send me an email. I don't intend to be as contrarian as I know I appear to be (and probably am being) here. I really care, and just for purely reasons of curiosity. Anyways, ping me if we can chat.
randycupertino 11y ago
It's because Theranos with it's pretty blonde Stanford dropout founder was an absolute media darling for 7 months to a year, could do no wrong, had heaps of fawning puff piece press. Now that their questionable tech has come to light, the press feels burned and is vengeful of being caught giving them a blowjob without due diligence. So now the media swings the opposite way and lashes out at Theranos to overcompensate.
- codezero 11y ago
  again, why does the attractiveness and hair color of the founder have anything to do with this discussion?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - anon8418 11y ago
    Because it was an influencing factor in the initial media infatuation with Theranos. If u goto their website a lot of the media and copy is very founder-specific. Almost like they are trying to build some cult of personality around her.
  - randycupertino 11y ago
    Because they used it as a way to cultivate attention to their company. She was a Glamour "Woman of the Year" http://fortune.com/2015/10/29/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabeth-holmes-feminist-icon/ http://fortune.com/2015/10/29/theranos-founder-ceo-elizabeth... Her pedigree, looks, family $$, being a Stanford dropout, blonde haircut, blue eyes, Steve Jobs drag and surfer voice (she took vocal coaching to deepen her voice to sound more like a leader) all combined as tantalizing catnip to the press. Theranos knew this and purposely stirred up a media storm focusing singularly on Holmes, NOT on the technology. Almost like it was constructed like a sleight of hand so everyone would be distracted by the cult of personality around the pretty blonde founder and ignore their lack of peer reviewed research that their testing methods actually worked.
  - eruditely 11y ago

swingbridge 11y ago

In general if a company is unfairly receiving bad press claiming its product is a sham, the usual response is to counteract that by being open and transparent and allowing independent assessment to disprove such claims. Want to pop in unannounced to test our product? Sure, no problem, let us show you how wonderful things are. The fact that they keep acting all shady doesn't bode well for their efforts to claim that the current criticism against their product and leadership is inaccurate or unfair.

cat-dev-null 11y ago
It doesn't look like they're "acting shady," but that Walgreens + Theranos hasn't streamlined their bureaucracy and user experience which promotes the value-add of change instead of offering a lesser experience (like the much touted credit card chip, which takes longer and not as forgiving to user interaction as the ol' magstripe). Most of the time, the only lab work I trust Walgreens with is a cholesterol test and a flu shot... If they can actually deliver the former without some complicated extra option or cost, then it's a no-brainer that it should be the default, not some hidden option that almost no one knows about. Definitely an advertising / customer education epic fail.
- wavefunction 11y ago
  I agree with swingbridge, they're "acting all shady." Especially if you've seen their public press appearances.
  - randycupertino 11y ago
    Totally agree, they are extremely shady. Especially when they started actively cultivating press this past spring, and a few months ago and suddenly they're shocked and pissed off that not all their press is glowing.

SilasX 11y ago

No knowledge of the biotech, but this is really shady. Above-board companies simply do not look like this. 1) Refusal to use the ground-breaking technology: >Then I asked about what Theranos calls “nanotainers” or tiny vials that can give you test results with a single drop of blood. >“Oh you have to order that separately,” she informed me. “We take those intravenously if you bundle a bunch of tests together.” >[...]I then informed them I was a journalist and would like to take the test separately to test the technology. They told me I would still need to order it separately. 2) Sudden delays and bizarre excuses when you insist on using their ground-breaking technology and identify as a journalist: > So I went to order it separately. >That’s when things got weird. It took much longer to process this separate order at the counter. I was told it was because they had to manually type in my order on the other end. >[...]I spoke with Chris, the Theranos manager, on the phone who informed me it was about supplies. Okay, but the people with the supplies to administer [the] test thought I could take it until management said they could not that day. 3) Extreme concern with following a central PR script when people ask questions: >Then I walked myself back to the testing center and could overhear one of the women on the phone with management in a panicked voice telling them I was a journalist doing an investigative piece (I wasn’t, just curious as to how it worked). 4) Scouts that are instructed to alert central command whenever people start asking questions (edit: especially when that was during a patient consultation): >I reached out to Theranos head of communications Brooke Buchanan for an explanation as well. She’d already been informed I was in the store today. 5) Insistence that you check only specific cases of their product: > I was asked why I chose not to go to the Theranos main office in Palo Alto for a test instead [of the Walgreen's location the author went to]. Also -- just a personal observation -- the use of the phrase "at this time" strongly correlates with how badly someone wants you to stop asking questions (police officers citing you, HR employees with bad news, PR spokespeople in a bind, etc).

Animats 11y ago
"Scouts that are instructed to alert central command whenever people start asking questions, especially when that was during a patient consultation." That's a HIPPA violation.[1] The article author asks others to write to her about their experiences with Theranos "nanotainer" tests. [1] https://www.hipaa.com/the-reality-of-hipaa-violations-and-enforcement/ https://www.hipaa.com/the-reality-of-hipaa-violations-and-en...

adevine 11y ago

To me, one of the sad things about the Theranos debacle is that even if they DON'T have super whiz-bang nanotainer technology, the general model of having affordable, transparently priced tests where you can just walk into a Walgreen's and order them is pretty awesome in my opinion. There are other companies that offer something somewhat similar (e.g. AnyLabTestNow), but the experience still sucks - locations/times are nowhere near as convenient as your local drug store, and the tests are expensive. I don't know how much Theranos' price reduction is dependent on its nanotainer tech, but if someone came in and offered an affordable service like CVS's minute clinics, but for tests, I'd use it, even if they had to do normal draws.

sandGorgon 11y ago
Is this something innovative? In india, i just paid 90$ and got 14 different tests including tumor markers tested for. The blood was collected at home (and then sent to a central testing facility). Unless, it is radically new technology... I'm curious on the value proposition here.
- deleted 11y ago
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- firasd 11y ago
  Yes, the customer-friendly blood testing in India would be incredibly "disruptive" to American lab tests. Not only does the US have different costs and regulations but the medical industry is based on extracting money from insurance companies so every process is a bit occluded. That said, Theranos is still on the hook because a business model innovation would probably not justify their valuation and PR compared to a tech innovation.
  - adevine 11y ago
    If it were just a business model innovation, Theranos would rightly be worth nothing, because they wouldn't bring anything to the table. CVS or Walgreen's have all the assets that would be worth anything in this situation.

empressplay 11y ago

Some commenters are making me wonder if Theranos' new narrative is that their value proposition is opening blood collection facilities in drug stores / supermarkets. If it is, and Theranos feels this "new" value proposition is enough to justify their valuation, I'm not sure what they're smoking, but I would sure like some!

joshpadnick 11y ago

I live in Phoenix, AZ and voluntarily sought out a Theranos test as part of an annual check-up last January. My PCP (primary care physician) ordered a bunch of blood tests, and I made the call to use a Theranos center at Walgreens. I showed up and they already had the order. I was advised that my insurance probably would not be accepted, but the total cost for a CBC, Lipid Panel, and 2 other blood tests was $42 cash so no insurance coverage was STILL cheaper than my covered labs. To draw the blood, a near-painless prick of my finger was used to fill I believe 2 nanotainers. A few days later, the results were sent to my PCP (though for some reason never to me). The entire process was (nearly) painless, extremely affordable, and convenient. I can't speak beyond my personal experience to the broader allegations, but I have to say that the vibe I got from the whole experience is that the innovation is real. Cheap tests I can order directly that are quicker to take and nearly pain-free? Yes, please! But based on mixed signals in the media, there is now an open question on whether the test results are in fact accurate. Also, although the company responded publicly to the allegations[1], for some reason the pitchforks haven't gone away. It also does seem like the transparency has left a little to be desired. Maybe this would spill key trade secrets? Sadly, given all the media confusion, I don't feel I can trust the results of a Theranos test anymore, but that's mostly because of all the media noise, and nothing to do with my experience itself. Hopefully, they can find a way to restore confidence in the service. If it delivers on the promise, it would be transformative. [1] https://www.theranos.com/news/posts/custom/theranos-facts https://www.theranos.com/news/posts/custom/theranos-facts

pavel_lishin 11y ago
> But based on mixed signals in the media, there is now an open question on whether the test results are in fact accurate. Were yours?
- joshpadnick 11y ago
  That's the problem. I have no way of knowing since I didn't also get the same blood tests from a conventional lab. So I have no baseline to compare them to.