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ReactOS, a 17-year quest for an open-source Windows, has a new release candidate
- giancarlostoro 11y agoThis is one OS I've kept my eye on forever, though it feels as though Microsoft will go open source before ReactOS can catch up if anything. I wouldn't mind if certain parts of Windows were open sourced, or replaced by open sourced alternatives at least, not all of Windows. We saw this happen to the Open Live Writer.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- johnmaguire2013 11y agoIt seems to me like Microsoft is trying to position themselves more as a Google-type entity. In the past, they were a massive proprietary corporation focused on Windows. Nobody cares about computers anymore (thanks smartphones, tablets!), and so Windows will go down the drain eventually. Not to mention Linux and OSX market share increasing. Not today, not tomorrow, but the writing's on the wall. Open source to get devs on board again, switch to subscription-based models, record more user data, and create more products.
- return0 11y ago> Nobody cares about computers anymore (thanks smartphones, tablets!), and so Windows will go down the drain eventually Not holding my breath for that.
- paulddraper 11y agoWait....are you telling me that used a computer today? And the day before that? And the day before... Ah, you're probably behind the times and not very techy anyway.
- iopq 11y agoI'm using a computer right now. I use a cellphone when I'm out, and use a tablet in bed/on the couch. I use a laptop when not home. I use my computer to stream games on TwitchTV. I also run a Linux VM on my personal computer to run caffe for neural net things. Let's see your tablet do that...
- Killswitch 11y agoTablets are computers.
- simonh 11y agoComputer + X = Computer Computer + teletype = Computer Computer + VDU = Computer Computer + Mouse = Computer Computer + Ethernet = Computer Computer + Phone = Computer Computer platforms devour the peripherals mated to them. BTW The Limbo PC emulator on Android is capable of running a minimal Linux distro and there are MS DOS emulators for iOS. It's just a matter of time.
- pjc50 11y agoBRB, installing vmware on my Win8 tablet.
- iopq 11y agoIt still won't run caffe because you don't have a powerful GPU to train neural nets on
- derefr 11y agoAgree, but with a disclaimer: I have a feeling the biggest part of Windows' marketshare 20 years from now will be Windows Server Core instances (running on Azure and elsewhere), with "Windows as PC software" no longer contributing much-at-all to the bottom line, and possibly made entirely free. Business workstations (everything currently running Windows Enterprise) will run something-or-other-that-doesn't-matter that can run Microsoft Remote Desktop, and apps will mostly be delivered via RemoteApp connections to said Windows Server Core clusters. Microsoft is becoming a cloud company, and enterprises are finally starting to accept thin clients (because now thin clients are actually kind of fat, and thus much less annoying to use.) Windows-on-the-desktop will basically be in a race against ChromeOS, which is fundamentally a thin-client OS as well. (Meanwhile, OSX will probably... continue to just be OSX. Unless Apple has some big new shift in vision, they're nowhere near being a cloud company, and OSX is nowhere near being a thin-client OS.)
- capitalsigma 11y agoApple is a hardware company, too.
- ferrari8608 11y agoThey kind of have to be. They forbid using their OSes on non-Apple hardware.
- capitalsigma 11y agoDesktop use is shrinking compared to alternatives --- especially mobile. In developing countries, many people use smartphones as their only form of access to the internet. People aren't saying that desktops etc are going to disappear, but that the cash cow in the next decade is probably going to have a much smaller form factor and a different OS from your traditional desktop.
- johnmaguire2013 11y agoThis is exactly what I was trying to say, thank you.
- eecks 11y ago> Nobody cares about computers anymore You're not in touch with reality at all
- carbocation 11y agoI think the comment to which you were responding was both thoughtful and, yes, provocative. You took the bait, but you didn't add anything of substance. Do you think that attributing some of the shift in how computing is done to tablets/smartphones is "not in touch with reality"? Because if you can show some data or link to other arguments, that would be really interesting. If not, why post?
- eecks 11y agoThe parent post didn't say anything thoughtful. The same spiel about Windows going down the drain has been repeated for years. People not using computers is just mindlessly repeated these days. You're asking me to provide data or links to other arguments but the initial statement provided neither. Why did you call my comment out but not the other two similar responses to the same line? I could say that you proved my comment to provocative and took the bait but then we'll spiral into comment hell.
- carbocation 11y agoI replied to your post because I saw it first. Had I seen the others at the time, I might have just moved on.
- newjersey 11y agoWhat I understand when people say the PC is dying is not that people will not touch a desktop or laptop at all in the foreseeable future but rather that the growth in sales will be much sharpernwith phones and tabletsbthan with desktop and laptop devices. They're not making broad, futuristic predictions. They're just trying to make sense of the market. The fact that Apple released a whole line of iPads kindnof shows this. That is just my opinio though.
- marcosdumay 11y ago> Nobody cares about computers anymore You know, it was annoying when people started to say those computers you carry with yourself the entire day were not "personal computers". Now you are trying to say they are not even "computers"! I just hope the world ignores your labels.
- SwellJoe 11y agoI call it "the super computer in my pocket", but that label doesn't seem to be catching on.
- derefr 11y agoEvery label gets stuck to its progenitor. The first things that we owned that were computers get called computers. The second set of things we own, that are also computers, but have some other defining qualities, get called something else to distinguish them from the first thing.
- marcosdumay 11y agoI'm perfectly ok with naming them "telephones", or "smartphones". As I'm quite ok with naming those older ones "desktops" and "laptops". I find the name "PC" for distinguishing desktops/laptops from phones/tablets mildly annoying, and very amusing because of how badly the name fits its meaning. But yes, there is a need to differentiate open computers from locked-down computers, and from that point of view the name isn't that bad anymore. Now, there's no need at all to assign the label "computer" to any form-factor. We have plenty of label already, and that would make a huge mess on communications.
- marcosdumay 11y agoReactOS may be the best WinXP-like alternative in existence. That counts for something... Not a huge amount, but something.
- yuhong 11y agoWindows is complex enough that I think so. I am thinking of breaking up Microsoft's OS division into a non-profit foundation, funded by hardware vendors like Dell and Intel with no per system licensing fees required anymore for example.
- tomcam 11y agoGenerous of you. What about the effect on pension funds that hold this now worthless stock? Grants to employees? The thousands of job losses?
- orionblastar 11y agoThe DOJ wanted to break Microsoft up into different companies like they did to AT&T. They would have been called the Baby Bills, and one would do Windows all by itself, and another would do Internet sites and apps, and another games, and another apps, and another developer tools. But that didn't happen and Microsoft got a slap on the wrist instead. Many people migrated to GNU/Linux or Mac because Microsoft had abused their monopoly, some people and companies are stuck with Microsoft because their business needs Windows to run their custom apps.
- yuhong 11y agoI know, and simply breaking up the OS division the traditional way would not solve the problems anyway. That is why I suggested a better idea this time.
- rasz_pl 11y agoMicrosoft already kinda went open source, unintentionally :) http://www.opennt.net/ http://www.opennt.net/ interesting thread documenting start of OpenNT project http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=33250 http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=33250 from broken code base that would not compile to booting ~Windows 2003 compiled from source.
- orionblastar 11y agoAvast gives me a Win32Evo Trojan warning when downloading NT 4.5 binary or ISO images. Is it a false positive or did they accidentally introduce a Trojan into the code? Anyway Avast won't let me download NT 4.5 due to a Trojan warning. So I can't test it out unless I disabled my AV. Edit: Why the downvote, scan it with Avast yourself if you don't believe me. I refuse to use it unless it is verified to not have a Trojan. Even if it might be a false positive.
- easong 11y agoAntiviruses are useless and you probably shouldn't be using one in 2015. Run the ISO in a VM if you don't trust it. (I didn't downvote you.)
- gscott 11y agoThey do this for "cracks" and "warez". I have a remote desktop licensing reset program and it flags it as a virus when it isn't.
- rasz_pl 11y agooh, you might want to brush up on state of the art in security practices https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z7L498dNB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z7L498dNB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzC8jJ0ESJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzC8jJ0ESJ0 its trivial to bypass every single scanner on the market, at this point they are all snake oil
- AgentME 11y agoWhat's the license of that?
- jamesu 11y agoReactOS may be impressive from a technical standpoint, but judging from the release candidate its still got a long way to go in terms of stability. While I was able to install it after puzzling over the correct hardware options, it still hanged during installing drivers at boot.
- orionblastar 11y agoReactOS runs best in a virtual machine. Running it on bare iron is risky. Driver support is limited and they are still working on it. For example they just added Wifi support and printing support. I donated to their Indiegogo campaign to get the community edition developed, that campaign allowed them to hire developers to get to the 0.40 mile stone.
- kayamon 11y agoIsn't one of the goals behind ReactOS that you can "simply" use the large existing base of Windows drivers on it?
- restalis 11y agoThat's the aim, but the circle of developers working on it is not that wide and even at the level of Windows 2003 (the project's compatibility aim) there already was a pretty large surface of binary compatibility to be covered. Many drivers already work, but many do not yet (because hey, it's not even in beta stage yet).
- ant6n 11y agoAt this point, I wonder whether it wouldn't be easier to bundle linux and wine together.
- wolf550e 11y agoWhat if you want to run vendor provided Windows-only binary drives for some weird hardware?
- suprjami 11y agoReactOS attempts to implement the driver interfaces as well.
- drewbug 11y agoExactly.
- beagle3 11y agoThose 0.1% of the users are likely going to have to buy Windows. After 17 years of development, ReactOS is not really usable with mainstream hardware, so it is unlikely to be a solution for weird hardware.
- restalis 11y ago"it is unlikely to be a solution for weird hardware" But it's there for the taking and tweaking! It's the same as you solve your own problems in the *nix world, but it's for the cases where you really don't have any other solution but but to work with the hardware vendor's black-box provided driver. BTW, don't expect that buying Windows will solve your problems (because Microsoft seems to have acquired a taste for moving fast and breaking things lately).
- suprjami 11y agoI've thought this as well. I agree there's value in aiming too-high, but the amount of effort which has gone into ReactOS would have served Wine really well.
- blisterpeanuts 11y agoAn OEM Windows 7 disc is under $50 at Amazon now (down from $80 which is what I paid a couple of months ago). At a certain point, why not just buy the real thing and not have to fuss so much about compatibility? Almost every recent Mac can bootcamp Windows now, and Linux can also dual-boot, or else maybe install it to VirtualBox. That's also why I've stopped updating my Crossover for $40 every year or two. Basic laptops and desktop boxes are so cheap these days that it becomes a question of whether your time is worth fussing around with compatibility software.
- viraptor 11y agoJust a personal thing, but I'd pay extra to run the one or two windows applications on linux rather install windows. Just because of system maintenance, security, licensing, privacy, etc. reasons.
- e12e 11y agoI'm not sure it's entirely clear what you can use an OEM Windows disk for. Isn't that just for new hardware? And that's at least 50/vm if I understand things. The thing to compare reactOS to is probably a datacenter licensed copy of Windows server. Productivity applications will (mostly) run in Wine - I don't think anyone expects ReactOS to be a viable alternative to bare-metal Windows install for gaming.
- coderjames 11y agoExactly. The Windows "OEM" or "System Builder" edition is only valid for computers that are sold on to the final end user. They aren't legal for personal use by the original purchaser. [1] [1] = http://www.howtogeek.com/197232/microsoft-is-misleading-consumers-with-windows-8.1-system-builder-licensing/ http://www.howtogeek.com/197232/microsoft-is-misleading-cons...
- terinjokes 11y agoInteresting. I bought Windows 8 System Builder and used the "Personal Use License". Some point thereafter I upgraded to Windows 8.1. I'm sure I agreed to the new terms of use (after all, I wanted to get back to my computer), and was suddenly breaking the license. Wonderful.
- secfirstmd 11y agoAs someone working on digital and physical security for human rights defenders in the field, I've followed this project closely. I would love to have a version of TAILS which had the Windows friendly attributes of ReactOS. Unfortunately, far too often the people most at risk just cannot really make the leap to a Linux based system, so a free, locked down version of something like ReactOS mixed with many of TAILS features, would be awesome. I know TAILS have tried to mirror some of the visual features but realistically it will never be the same.
- SwellJoe 11y agoI've always been strangely fascinated by this project. I don't understand it. I appreciate the technical skill involved, and the amount of effort expended. But, I can't imagine working on it. From my perspective, Windows is an inferior system to any UNIX-based system on almost every front. It has a very strong application ecosystem, but technically it's unpleasant to work on (for me). So, given that, if there's something I want an OS to do that Linux can't do, I would be motivated to work on making Linux able to do that thing so I could do that thing on an Open Source OS I enjoy using, rather than work on replicating Windows so I could do that thing on an open source OS I don't enjoy using. But, it seems there are people who genuinely enjoy Windows more than Linux (or BSD), and are willing to work for 17 years in pursuit of being able to run an Open Source Windows version. I admire them for it, but still can't understand it.
- userbinator 11y agoIMHO the nixes have a far superior CLI, but Windows' GUI is (at least pre-Metro, i.e. Win32 desktop) superior to the many disjoint alternatives that the Linux/BSD/OS X/Solaris/etc. world has. Instead of Qt, Gtk, and all the others, Windows just has Win32 and all apps have basically identical look-and-feel (except for those that go out of their way to reinvent the standard GUI elements, but in my experience this is much rarer on Windows) and it's relatively easy for them to interact. (I've been writing Win32 apps for over a decade, so maybe I'm biased that way, but I definitely prefer (ba)sh over command.com/cmd.exe. My ideal environment would be a pre-Metro Windows GUI with a UNIX-based filesystem and command prompt...)
- sho_hn 11y ago> Instead of Qt, Gtk, and all the others, Windows just has Win32 No, Windows has Qt, Gtk and all the others, too. Virtually any regular user Windows install has 2-5 Qt apps on it. And Windows has been infamous for apps reinventing standard UI elements with skinned monstrosities.
- donatj 11y agoIt's been about 5 years since I was a regular Windows user, but I can't think of a single Qt app I used on a regular basis. Care to name some examples?
- sutro 11y agoQuixotic is a characteristic I appreciate more and more in software projects as I get older, as my own efforts seem to increasingly tilt at windmills.
- dustinupdyke 11y agoA serious question: When will we see a truly new OS built from the ground up? If there is a space where there seems to be little innovation it is in the space of new OS paradigms. Flavors of Windows or Linux - are there really any commercially ready alternatives today or in the very near future?
- michaelmior 11y agoNew operating systems are still being created. Barrelfish[0] for example is quite promising. The "commercially ready" part is much more challenging. [0] http://www.barrelfish.org/ http://www.barrelfish.org/
- iso8859-1 11y agoGenode has commercial support: http://genode.org/ http://genode.org/
- ferrari8608 11y agoHaiku comes to mind. It's an open source reimplementation of BeOS. Unfortunately it's still alpha like ReactOS.
- ant6n 11y agoHow about an operating system that doesn't execute native code directly anymore. No Segfaults. All programs live in the same VM space.
- cpitman 11y agoIt's pretty much dead now, but Microsoft Research had a project called Singularity (http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/singularity/ http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/singularity/). It's an entire OS implemented in Spec#, which is a subset of C# + Code Contracts. It was built so that contracts between programs could be statically verified when compiled, allowing applications to all run in the kernel's address space.
- ferrari8608 11y ago
- subinsebastien 11y agoIf ReactOS provides a Windows 98/ME like interface and icons and rest of the UI/UX, I would definitely donate to the project and will install it on one of my home computers. I love when software reminds me of my childhood. :)
- wila 11y agoOk, played with it in a virtual machine. Good to see they are making progress. My experience so far from today's experiment run, .. it still is quite unstable, saw several BSODs (about 7 of them varying from processor locked to the real blue screen) Most of the times I lost data during the crash. Files disappearing etc.. Good part is that it reboots really fast. VMware Tools installed -albeit complaining- and I could use VMware shared folders which was convenient. Of course this is a release candidate and we are not at 1.0 so stability really isn't a promise. If they manage to get it more stable then it is starting to become usable.
- collinmanderson 11y agoI think ReactOS is still targeting XP/2003? The way things are going, Microsoft may open source Windows before ReactOS catches up, likely with a more permissive license.