25 ms·

Leaving the Mac App Store

884 points by davidbarker 11y ago

Rio_Tous 11y ago
consider China market, things are even worse due to network problem.
austenallred 11y ago
>App Review continues to take at least a week That must be the most frustrating/annoying thing in the world. > there are technical limitations imposed by the Mac App Store guidelines (sandboxing and so on) that limit some of the features we want to bring to Sketch I'm sure there are good intentions to what Apple is doing there, but it would be nice to know more details. > and upgrade pricing remains unavailable Man, the Mac App Store really just needs to up its game.
- p0la 11y ago
  + having a China wall between review (that are on the app store) and the support (that you may implement in your app if you wish) isn't so great. When selling on Amazon for example, you have a ready to use support platform that allow you to easily interact with customers that seem to be strugling. I feel this really helps avoiding unnecessary frustrations. Also, the best moment to collect feedback is when people are in review mode. And when your users get in review mode, they got straight to the app store where you can't reach them.
- roosterjm2k2 11y ago
  The intention of most of their decisions is more about their own money... Case in point, it took forever for chrome or opera to come to iOS because they "competed" with the apple product already integrated into the OS, and "provided a less seamless user experience" ... basically, Apple didn't want to be outshined on their own platform...
  - scarface74 11y ago
    That's not true. Apple allowed third party browsers - as long as they used WebKit - from day one when the app store opened.
    - Karunamon 11y ago
      Which makes them not really third party browsers anymore, they're basically frames around a UIWebView (which is Safari) which can't do anything interesting.
      - sosborn 11y ago
        UIWebView and Safari are different things. Yes, Safari uses (essentially) UIWebView, but a browser is much more than its rendering engine.
        Karunamon 11y ago
        The important bit there is "do anything interesting". Forget about any plugins that directly manipulate the markup (so no µ/adblock, no ghostery, no noscript). Yeah, they can display web pages, but iOS Firefox/Chrome provide almost no benefits over the stock safari. Less in fact, since it's a near certainty that Safari is using privileged APIs to integrate with the OS in a way that no other browsers are allowed to. (Didn't a very prominent company get sued for something along these lines back in the 90s?)
        sosborn 11y ago
        You can actually load whatever you want into a UIWebView. You could do the request, manipulate the response and display your modified HTML. Adblocking is of course now integrated into the OS.
  - simonh 11y ago
    I'm not sure who you're quoting with those quote marks. It's not Apple though, because I don't believe they ever said any such thing. The reason Apple has always given is security. This is the reason they gave for not allowing third party access to the JIT version of the javascript engine. Their critics at the time claimed this was really because they didn't want other browsers competing with Safari, and they'd never let anyone have it because of that. Then when Apple developed the XPC framework allowing secure remote execution, they opened up the JIT engine to third party browsers in a secure way. So far Apple's actual behaviour has been completely consistent with their stated reasons, which are not the reasons you are 'quoting' from somewhere, and in several respect contrary to the predictions of their critics. Isn't it possible that they are being honest about their motives? But on the other hand, yes, the Mac App Store is a broken mess. Right now it's part of the problem with app distribution on the desktop, not part of the solution.
- kybernetyk 11y ago
  >That must be the most frustrating/annoying thing in the world. Yes, and sometimes it gets even more frustrating when you get rejected for some minor issue like "the app name in the help menu is mis-spelled". An issue that takes you 3 minutes to fix and re-upload. And then you need to wait another 7 days. (If you're unlucky they find something else for 7 days more of waiting time).
  - makecheck 11y ago
    If they're doing that level of scrutiny a million times, they should have released a tool (or even built it into Xcode); something like "Consistency Checker". It's silly of them to reject apps entirely over checks that anyone could do in advance, if only they knew what to look for.
    - ssutch3 11y ago
      There are a lot of automated tests that the upload program and receiving web service already do. But "quality checking" is left up to a human editor.
    - shawn-furyan 11y ago
      Not only would it be nice, but if such an application exists internally at Apple, and they released it with Xcode or something, then perhaps developers could integrate it into their testing infrastructure. If that chain of events happened, then it could bring up the consistency of Apple-centric OS 3rd party software, all the while decreasing time that updates spend in review. This sort of change could be a huge win for Apple, iOS/OSX Developers, and iOS/OSX users.
    - copperx 11y ago
      Oh, they have ; but it doesn't do that many checks.
song 11y ago
I avoid buying from the mac app store as much as possible. If Apple ever decided to change mac os x to no longer allow external applications, I would switch to Linux right away. I don't want to do that because I do like the os X better a GUI... But there's no way I'd stay on a system that wouldn't allow me to do what I want with it.
- atonse 11y ago
  EDIT: That would be suicide (for the whatever 5% of their sales the mac brings in!). If they imposed a rule like that AND continued to neglect the app store the way they do, droves of developers would leave. Unless they rethink or overhaul their sandboxing system to allow a bigger class of applications (essentially, most of what's out there), they won't be able to move power users to the App Store.
  - Alex3917 11y ago
    > That would be suicide Most big companies commit suicide. If you think OS X and the MacBook Pro users are being neglected now, just wait until they have the car.
- deleted 11y ago
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  - seivan 11y ago
    Would you prefer exclusive Mac OS games through Steam or Mac App Store?
    - 91bananas 11y ago
      Steam all day, especially after this disaster of expired certificates this year [0]. I had a copy of a game from 2007 that will probably never be touched by the developers again, which leaves me $20 in the hole with a broken game. I bought it again from Steam, works better than the App Store version ever did. [0]: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/17/apple-responds-mac-app-store-certificate/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/17/apple-responds-mac-app-s...
deleted 11y ago
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- Shengbo 11y ago
  Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.
S_A_P 11y ago
That is my biggest complaint about the Mac App store. I think in general prices have been reduced for most apps. But upgrade pricing is a must for customer retention. If they try to sell me the next version of Logic for 199 Im not buying it. I spent 599 for logic 8 platinum, 129(I think) for logic 9 upgrade and then 199 for Logic pro X. Im not interested in giving them another couple of hundred dollars for a while.
- j2bax 11y ago
  Logic Pro is a professional DAW as I'm sure you are aware given your years with it. If you can't afford the $199 upgrade, you should probably just use Garageband for free. Personally I prefer this pricing strategy over requiring a monthly subscription. And $199 is far cheaper than the alternatives.
  - S_A_P 11y ago
    I agree- however, if you follow what other DAW upgrades cost(and I agree, forget this monthly subscription crap) Studio One Upgrade from 2-3(highest version) - 149 Reason 8 upgrade from any version - 129(sometimes 99) Cubase 8 upgrade - 75 Logic is pretty expensive to upgrade for what usually amounts to a free plugin or two and minor functionality increases...
    - j2bax 11y ago
      I didn't realize they charge so little for their major upgrades. Sorry to assume you didn't do the math.
      - tjl 11y ago
        Another point, Pro Tools HD is $99/year and $199 for the first year. In that case, $199 is reasonable.
- thirdsun 11y ago
  You picked a bad example. Yes, you need to purchase Logix X for 199, but you probably won't need to pay for any Logic updates in the foreseeable future. While the lack of update pricing is a problem for many developers, it's also a feature of Apple's software. They usually simply don't do priced updates. As far as I remember the upgrade from Logic 9 to X was free on the App Store. Furthermore the full price of 199 could very well be mistaken for an upgrade offer - it's a very reasonable price.
nnx 11y ago
> We should also add that this move is not a knee-jerk reaction to the recent certificate expiration problems that affected so many Mac App Store customers. Any good link/background about this?
- jhull 11y ago
  HN thread here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10560634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10560634
nicksergeant 11y ago
Good. The other day the App Store was down and I couldn't use half of my downloaded apps because they failed "verification". I'll be happy as a clam to see more developers move their apps off of the App Store.
- deleted 11y ago
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- Already__Taken 11y ago
  Steam does this to me as well sometimes. Why can't these stores use some kind of encryption that can just validate "Yes at some point in the past this has been purchased on this computer" and leave it at that. Always online frankly seems excessive.
  - roosterjm2k2 11y ago
    Steam seems to remember for a while... i've played Euro Truck Sim while traveling with no internet...
    - WorldMaker 11y ago
      It varies with different games on Steam. Steam doesn't require its DRM, so some games have no DRM, even when installed by Steam, which is great. More critically, though, Steam also doesn't require its DRM be exclusive so some games are protected both by Steam's DRM and something else, where that something else may have its own weird requirements before launching a game.
      - facetube 11y ago
        Can confirm. I bought Goat Simulator from Steam about a year ago, have uninstalled Steam, and even moved the application between OSs and devices without any issue.
      - forgotmypassw 11y ago
        That's why we should promote DRM-free software distributions - like GOG.
wyattjoh 11y ago
After I just got profile manager figured out to distribute our Sketch licences at the office... Hope there's some option to manage those licenses.
wyattjoh 11y ago
After I just got profile manager figured out to distribute our Sketch licences at the office... Hope there's some option to manage those licenses.
deleted 11y ago
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- cageface 11y ago
  Really? They seem to target different kinds of users. For illustration work Affinity Designer has the edge but was still pretty badly suited for the kinds of UI design work people usually do in Sketch. Or at least that was the case the last time I tried it.
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - deleted 11y ago
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- dubcanada 11y ago
  Sketch 3 and Affinity Designer are two completely different markets. Sketch is a vector editing program (competing with Adobe Illustrator and Inkscape), Affinity Designer is a photo editing program (competing with Photoshop and Pixelmator).
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - ChristianGeek 11y ago
    Look again...Affinity is vector-based with the ability to work on a pixel level as well.
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - quarterto 11y ago
    You're thinking of Affinity Photo. Affinity Designer is probably closer to Illustrator than Sketch is, since it's geared towards vector illustration rather than UI design.
tdkl 11y ago
Thank god there are some developers who have the balls to stop with this "Store" app distribution bonanza brought by the mobile phone. Someone should give Microsoft a hint.
- StavrosK 11y ago
  > brought by the mobile phone Brought by the iPhone. You can install whatever you want on Android, and multiple stores exist.
  - spdionis 11y ago
    But 90% of the users (me included) use only the play store and barely know anything about the rest, let alone trust them (me included again).
    - StavrosK 11y ago
      "People don't use them" is qualitatively different from "they cannot exist", though.
    - oneeyedpigeon 11y ago
      I'm guessing you don't have a source for that because I would be shocked if it were any less than 99%. It would be wonderful to see genuine rivals, offering alternative business models.
      - gtk40 11y ago
        The only significant one would be Amazon's app store, which doesn't really offer any improvements over Google's.
        goodplay 11y ago
        I use f-droid over te play store whenever I want to install an app.
ilolu 11y ago
Anyone else not getting the mentioned popup when launching the new Sketch ?
- an4rchy 11y ago
  Did you overwrite the App Store installed version or did you just download from scratch and install? I overwrote the MAS version and it came up.
  - ilolu 11y ago
    I tried overwriting too. But did not get the popup.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
milen 11y ago
Apple has completely lost the goodwill of Mac developers. The one and only reason the ones that haven't gone bankrupt are still staying is because they have no other choice due to platform lock-in. Every single conversation that I've had with indies recently have gone along the same lines: Apple is killing the indie scene. I wrote about the MAS exodus [1] more than a year ago and people were skeptical back then. Think again - here's a list of great apps [3] that are only available outside the MAS. Those are not just small time hobbyist apps - those are professional tools. Pieter (founder of Bohemian, company behind Sketch) listed many problems with the MAS at a recent conference [5]. Wil Shipley (well-known within the community) has also written about it [6]. And now you have another flagship OS X app ditching the MAS due to the multitude problems it creates. The message is loud and clear - if you're a real software business, not a hobbyist at home, don't waste your time with the MAS - it simply does not allow you to run your busienss properly. When the companies building the flagship apps for the platform publicly state they cannot do business due to the restrictions of the Mac App Store and then abandon the dysfunctional virtual marketplace, then you know Apple have pushed them beyond the edge. No company would just decide to leave the MAS unless the situation is hurting them significantly and holding them back. And unfortunately, there are almost no words to describe how bad the MAS has been for the ecosystem and innovation on the platform. [2] You also get ridiculous stuff like Intuit because of the limitations [4]. Even if Apple fixes the Mac App Store one day, which is highly unlikely given that in 5 years they have done absolutely nothing, developers have been burned once and will be skeptical. You know, the whole "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". When people say that everything is fine and dandy with the MAS, they seem to be misguided - no one is asking Apple to make everyone a millionare. Developers are asking for Apple not to force simplistic business models and allow companies to have the ability to choose what works for them. I used to be hopeful for years but no more. I have zero faith that Apple will listen to indies and solve their problem, they've got no leverage. And that's a real pity. Instead of pairing high quality hardware with high quality software, we have a platform encouraging predatory tactics and milking of customers. A truly sad situation. And that's a real shame because the platform I love and have invested a decade in deserves better. It might even be too late - the damage to developers has been enormous. [1] http://blog.helftone.com/mac-app-store-the-subtle-exodus/ http://blog.helftone.com/mac-app-store-the-subtle-exodus/ [2] http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/12/no-one-minding-the-store/ http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/12/no-one-minding-the-store/ [3] http://dancounsell.typed.com/articles/not-on-the-mac-app-store http://dancounsell.typed.com/articles/not-on-the-mac-app-sto... [4] http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/24/quicken-2015-switches-from-mac-app-store-to-direct-updates/ http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/24/quicken-2015-switches-from... [5] https://twitter.com/tmaes/status/657213874970763267 https://twitter.com/tmaes/status/657213874970763267 [6] https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/669321851793879040 https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/669321851793879040
__m 11y ago
Well the new sketch crashes instantly, i hope it doesn't take them a week to release an update
- bomberstudios 11y ago
  If you used The Unarchiver, Pathfinder or Keka to unzip it, try using OSX's Archive Utility
  - henriks 11y ago
    Surprisingly this turned out to be the issue; The Unarchiver messed up some file attributes it seems. Thanks.
VeryVito 11y ago
I'm glad to see successful apps exiting The Mac App Store, and I hope others will follow. Unlike its iOS counterpart, which is great in many ways (new app discovery not being one of them), the MAS has unfortunately done more harm than good to the once-thriving indy Mac app-development scene. It offers a low cost of entry, but also encourages "pump-and-dump" development, in which developers are actively (though surely not intentionally) discouraged from updating their apps once they launch. It's designed to be the "anti-professional" means of app distribution, and it never reaches any higher.
- jonknee 11y ago
  Which is a real shame because it's great to not worry about billing information, key management and pushing out updates (for both users and developers).
  - jasonbarone 11y ago
    This is the part I wish could be solved. I hate having to input billing into various websites and apps and not being able to track licenses unless I do myself.
  - oneeyedpigeon 11y ago
    How viable would it be for a third-party alternative to act as a 'broker' between customer and developer, just to handle those aspects you mention?
    - jonknee 11y ago
      Steam has done well with that model for games, but being Mac only would be a tough sell. Apple's big advantage was instantly getting the App Store on every Mac.
      - s73v3r 11y ago
        Who says they have to be Mac only? It'd probably work out better to be on all major platforms, that way you can sell the feature of buy once, run on all platforms the software runs on. You also could allow single platform things onto your store too, like Sketch.
ThomPete 11y ago
I used to have an app in the MAS but recently removed it and is using Paddle instead. There are so many things wrong with the MAS. Sandbox is the biggest complaint I have. I can understand it with the iOS to some degree. At least there they are constantly providing new features and hardware changes to help apps keep being innovative. To give an example of the Sandbox issue. We are using AppleScript for some of our logic in the background. Because of the Sandbox every time AS is used a little gear pops up in the top menu of OSX. This started with Yosemite. But worse than that. The implimentation of this security measure was completely sloppy. The gear didn't just appear it also rearranged the top bar icons and I of course got a horde of users complaining. We tried many things to solve this but had to finally give up and just offer MAS users to switch to our non-MAS version. You would think that at least people would be able to turn off such a thing with apps they knew were ok. But no. Furthermore reviews can really make you or break you. For a long time we had good reviews because I spent a lot of time making sure people understood why the spinning gear was there. But after a while one star reviews started appearing and we had no way of mitigating that or contact the user and tell them they could switch to the non MAS app if they had that issue. And so I finally realized that if you want to actually do any innovation with your apps and built a proper business MAS is not for you. I am beginning to wonder if there is room for an alternate App Store based on the the Developer Certificate or some security setup open sourced. Anyway. My next product wont even be going on the MAS. It's simply not worth it. It's just a distribution channel for Apple to show their latest features (the only way you get featured)
- danieldk 11y ago
  Although I am happy that apps are moving out of the MAS (it is slow, updates are slow, no possibility to offer upgrade licenses), as a user, Sandboxing is something that I want for every possible application. The model where an app can e.g. touch your whole home directory should go.
  - ThomPete 11y ago
    I don't disagree but I think there must be ways around this. For instance I don't mind Apples requirement that you have to ask for permission to access various files or folders but it should be possible and not come up with things like a spinning gear skating around your menubar. Those things are just sloppy. A simple. "I trust this app to do more crazy things with my machine" feature must be possible to do.
seanalltogether 11y ago
I would love to take Space Gremlin away from the mac app store. I've had to do some pretty wonky workarounds to offer people a "pro" version to escape the sandbox and it's a constant support headache. I'm just not sure if managing the payment network, licensing and distribution support is going to be even more of a headache. I'm genuinely surprised that nobody as set up a 3rd party app store that can compete with apple and microsoft and offer a cross platform solution. Get a big company like Adobe to anchor it and I would jump over in a heartbeat.
- eljimmy 11y ago
  I don't think Apple would ever allow something of that nature, unfortunately.
  - scarface74 11y ago
    Apple doesn't have to "allow" you to install apps on the Mac.
- detaro 11y ago
  > I'm genuinely surprised that nobody as set up a 3rd party app store that can compete with apple and microsoft and offer a cross platform solution. Interestingly, the only option I can think of is Steam. They also sell non-game software, but mostly creative tools.
- kybernetyk 11y ago
  > I'm just not sure if managing the payment network, licensing and distribution support is going to be even more of a headache. From my own experience (I have a few apps on the MAS + outside of it) something like Devmate+Fastrpring or Paddle makes licensing and payment processing pretty painless. Of course there's other issues like what happens when Paddle or Devmate go belly up ande stop processing license activations. But still it takes only a weekend to get it to work and once you get it to run it just works. The real problem though is that the Mac software ecosystem outside the MAS is dead. No user goes to those huge software directory websites anymore (my traffic from MacUpdate & co. is almost zero). (Funnily enough before the MAS went live Apple had a list of OS X software. It was a great source of high quality traffic back then. But it wen't offline with the introduction of the MAS). The only way to get your app infront of users is via SEO (which means that you take your eggs from the MAS basket and put them all into the Google basket) or by spending loads of money on PPC ads which won't give you a positive ROI because $39 is now considered hugely expensive for software. Social media, blog posts, etc. are all nice in theory but won't convert to paying users. You made a funny cat picture that went viral and sends thousands of reddit users to your website? Great, but no one will download your app. They just want the cat picture. The same goes for paying $10k for a blog post over at daringfireball. People will visit your website but won't download. Buying ads directly on blogs, forums or twitter/facebook? No one cares for those. You will just lose money. Marketing your own software got really hard nowadays and if you're not one of the "famous" developers removing your app from the Mac App Store just means that you will lose most of your revenue. Great for Sketch that they can pull it off. But most devs can't. Which makes Apple's negligence of the MAS even worse.
robmcm 11y ago
The Mac app store is great for simple, do one thing apps. I purchased a little app that stitched panoramic photos together, and it worked great and cost next to nothing. However I think it's a long way off working for every app and developer.
kremdela 11y ago
I'll just play devils advocate here. As a consumer, I really like buying from the Mac App store solely for the user experience of, when I eventually new a new Macbook Pro, I can easily sync all of my purchases, rather than having to retrieve the licenses and go download the latest version of each piece of software I've purchased. As a developer, I've heard countless horror stories and totally understand.
- ismail 11y ago
  For syncing apps and tools have you tried homebrew and cask. Create a brewfile and stick it in your dotfiles.
  - laveur 11y ago
    Brew is not consumer friendly at all. My parents (in their 60's) own a mac that I bought for them. It was a great decision for me as I barely have to support them for technical problems. I only get questions on how to do something. If I was to try and explain brew to them it would be a disaster. Explaining the Mac App Store is far easier.
    - oalders 11y ago
      I feel the same way. https://www.cakebrew.com/ https://www.cakebrew.com/ does make brew a bit friendlier, but it's still not simple enough for me to explain to my parents.
    - jasonbarone 11y ago
      Brew is not even tech-person friendly. I'm comfortable with the command line and I had a ton of problems getting cask to work. I LOVE the idea and I will use it every time I setup a computer, but there's so many issues to work out. Mainly, some apps not updating correctly, the storage of app versions in cask, settings, licensing. It's a mess. I really hope it gets better. I'd contribute if I was knowledgeable enough to do so.
      - 11y ago
tammer 11y ago
I've always wondered: is it the limitations of the sandbox that are the problem, or is it expectation? If we never had access to execute outside the sandbox, would we simply say we "see the reasoning" as we do for iOS?
glossyscr 11y ago
Sketch was the killer app of the entire MAS. For me it's even the killer app for OSX, there's nothing equal for that price on Windows.
relaxatorium 11y ago
The thing that's craziest about the MAS to me is how bad the actual application is. It's super slow, constantly hangs, and is just such a bad experience from the consumer side that it undermines the (very real) benefits of having a centralized store of applications you've purchased and installed. It'd be one thing (and a fairly standard Apple move) if the customer experience was good and they didn't care about trampling developers to get it that way, but the actual customer facing software that is the App Store is a shockingly bad piece of software.
- to3m 11y ago
  I dread ever having to run the Mac App Store to get an upgrade. (Luckily, I only have to do it for Xcode and OS X.) It asks for my password literally every 15-20 seconds. Once I tell it to upgrade everything, it selects only one upgrade, and keeps telling me there are upgrades. While the upgrades are going, it keeps asking me for my password. At that point I go off and watch TV. When I come back, it's actually downloaded all of the upgrades, and there's a message about how there are more. After I've entered my password a few more times, it tells me I'm up to date. Then it asks me whether I'd like to upgrade. I guess once their work experience students get bored working on Xcode they put them on this instead.
  - sosborn 11y ago
    > It asks for my password literally every 15-20 seconds. This hasn't been my experience at all. I wonder what's going on because that sounds super annoying.
    - to3m 11y ago
      As far as I can tell, it's not universal, but still somewhat common. (My computer has always done it ever since I bought it new in April.) It is a bit annoying. But since I use the MAS so irregularly, I can get by. I do wonder what the cause is, though. I'm less certain I'd like to know how Apple have so far failed to get to the bottom of it.
      - 11y ago
cdnsteve 11y ago
Has Sketch considered Steam? They support Mac.
- theinternetman 11y ago
  The Steam mac client is pretty janky which might explain them not using it.
  - colmvp 11y ago
    Janky is putting it kindly
optimuspaul 11y ago
I pretty much only use the Mac App Store anymore. There are maybe 2 apps I use that I get outside of it. I have a bunch that I are woefully out of date because their developers abandoned me. It's too bad that rather than trying to push to make it a better place developers are just leaving.
- URSpider94 11y ago
  How exactly do developers "push to make it a better place?" It's owned by Apple, nobody else has a voice, and Apple must be 100% clear on the perceived shortcomings seen by developers. It's not like there's a quarterly App Store Community Meeting where people can go and complain ...
- profmonocle 11y ago
  Developers have been sending feedback to Apple for many years, and they haven't listened. The only option left is to vote with their feet. Look on the bright side - losing big-name apps might finally force Apple to fix the MAS, then those devs might come back.
aerialcombat 11y ago
They should seriously do something about the review times. I'm sure they can come up with a plenty of good solutions if they wanted to. I suggest maybe giving developers a bank of a set number of expedited review passes per year or so, so they can use it when they really need it. Damn it.
- stevetrewick 11y ago
  It actually works like this in theory. You can get a couple of expedited reviews for critical or urgent fixes [0], but Apples definition of 'critical' and 'urgent' don't typically include having just shipped a crash bug that will effect your entire user base unless you are Rovio are a similarly large actor. [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/app-review/ https://developer.apple.com/support/app-review/
  - chillacy 11y ago
    Yea, I'm a small dev and I did that last time a critical feature of my app was broken, and the review still ended up taking a a week. Meanwhile people were sending me support emails and I know even more were silently frustrated. It's not fun to be powerless over your own destiny like this.
  - profmonocle 11y ago
    I once got them to expedite an emergency bug fix, and my company was nowhere near a "large actor". But this was waaaay back in 2009 so I can't be sure they're still that willing to help small devs. The expedited review took 24 hours when the average was over ten days at that time. Still, any review time is really sucks as a developer. Shipping a big release and having to wait 10+ days to get feedback really slowed us down and hurt my enthusiasm as a developer. Honestly, I'm glad iOS development isn't the main focus of my job anymore - the SDK and tooling is fantastic, but provisioning and App Store submission is awful.
aerialcombat 11y ago
They should seriously do something about the review times. I'm sure they can come up with a plenty of good solutions if they wanted to. I suggest maybe giving developers a bank of a set number of expedited review passes per year or so, so they can use it when they really need it. Damn it.
mrspeaker 11y ago
Ha... nooow they do it. I purchased Sketch version 2 for 50 euros when I lived in France. Then I moved to the US and got a new computer - at the same time version 3 came out. There was no way for me to get version 2 back: I tried the old "just re-purchase it and it'll end up costing you $0" (which worked for a bunch of other apps - but they were still on the same version). Instead I payed another $70 for version 3. I wrote to Apple and got my money back... but now I'm stuck with a dodgy version of 3 (that I'm supposed to delete and can't get updates for) and no way to get 2 back. Do I actually own version 2? I don't know!
mosburger 11y ago
What are the alternatives to MAS? I've been considering distributing a small OSX app at a fairly low price based on its value. Are there any good ways to sell low-priced licensed software that support pushing updates to users easily? Edit: I should mention that in my particular case, the app is an Electron (formerly Atom Shell) app, so a solution that involves an ObjC library might be a bit difficult to implement.
- jawngee 11y ago
  http://paddle.com http://paddle.com
  - mosburger 11y ago
    Yeah, Paddle looks cool but I'm not sure how I'd integrate it w/ a "fake" faux-native app builder like Electron. Probably just ignorance on my part. :)
tdkl 11y ago
Also what's wrong with Apple and their approach to software lately ? Have they become just a hardware and accessories company? Chris Pirillo gave a great talk about all the issues with the upfront statement that Android Marshmallow runs better on older hardware then iOS 9 on theirs (20min): http://youtu.be/n5iuR8pKBfQ http://youtu.be/n5iuR8pKBfQ
- jlarocco 11y ago
  Glad I'm not the only one noticing it. I dumped OSX and installed Debian on my iMac a couple months ago because Apple's software has just sucked the last few iterations, and if it weren't for Capture One and LightRoom I'd be running OSX on my MBP, too. If it doesn't get better soon, my next phone is going to be an Android.
Jasber 11y ago
Two years ago I released a Mac app (https://heyfocus.com/ https://heyfocus.com/) that couldn't be in the MAS due to sandbox restrictions (tried 3 times—frustrating experience). I sat on it for an entire year because I was convinced nobody buys stuff outside of the AppStore anymore. A year ago, the project still had really good traction, so I decided to try to sell it directly as a test (using Paddle.com). Boy, was I wrong! TONS of people buy outside the MAS, and Focus is doing better than ever. If you're questioning it like I was, give it a shot.
- ThomPete 11y ago
  And there is a very good reason for that. People don't use the app store to find solutions to problems, they use google for that. I had my app all the way up on top selling apps on the MAS and it had no effect on my sales.
- zanedeg 11y ago
  I use focus everyday, thanks for the great app!
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- jonnynezbo 11y ago
  Two things: - I use Focus, and it's awesome - I prefer to buy outside of the MAS, and always check to see if the developer sells directly before buying there
- metasean 11y ago
  Tangent: From Firefox, if I increase the font n https://heyfocus.com/ https://heyfocus.com/ (for accessibility reasons) the buttons _come apart_ (specifically the right sides overlap the lower center of their button). Even with that font size increase, the text under the buttons is still extremely hard to read!
- chrisper 11y ago
  Good choice. I stopped using the AppStore because I hate how it connects an app to my apple ID. For example, when I came to the U.S. I had to create a new AppleID. So each time I want an app from the old AppleID I have to change to the German app store. Quite annoying.
netheril96 11y ago
Sandboxing is one of the pain points of Mac App Store. I certainly would like to see sandboxing being more prevalent on the desktop, but not like the MAS way. The user should have the final say of the way in which a sandbox allows and restricts the application. Just for example, I should be able to completely trust an app with access to the filesystem, not with all the popups and confirmations, while disallowing network access from it.
ksk 11y ago
I've always seen all app stores as a blatant money grab. A digital storefront like that does not require that much money to run (no comparison with supermarkets and the like which have heavy operational costs). I mean the search barely works, discoverability sucks. One of the primary drivers for app revenue is handpicked winners and losers via their own app lists, and some of the stores are so amateurish that you have to re-download the entire app to update it. Of the ones that we have, Steam is probably the least grubby. I would much rather they charge a flat review/update/host fee per app with maybe tiered hosting pricing for multi-GB apps (which apart from steam games, I'm pretty sure few people download anyway). It's hard enough trying to run a successful software business and then these companies go out and beat their chest with "WE paid developers billions this year" rather than "we took away 30% revenue from developers".
fhdaily 11y ago
http://goo.gl/4j18gZ http://goo.gl/4j18gZ check this
vbezhenar 11y ago
IMO sandboxing on desktop is failed attempt. Browser is a sandbox platform. Nobody will download some shady application and run it, even if it's sandboxed (but a lot of people don't really mind to visit a shady website). If an application is in AppStore, it means that Apple got some legal documents from developer, it means that Apple performed some automated scans on application binaries. For me it's enough to have some trust. Sandboxing is not needed and it actually making some apps unusable or even impossible to implement. Desktop apps always were in control of the entire computer. And they are now, unless you are downloading them from the AppStore. That's why a PC is much more useful than an iPad or iPhone for power users.
- pkamb 11y ago
  And it's not as if non-Sandboxed applications won't be used. They'll just be distributed outside the app store. So all of the potentially "dangerous" apps are one-more-step removed from Apple's oversight and ability to pull the app and halt downloads. Gatekeeper gives them some power in this regard, but what's the point of not allowing them in the Mac App Store? Is the PR from having a keylogger in the MAS really that different from the recent Instagram password harvester for iOS, or a Mac keylogger that was direct-downloaded?
timetraveller 11y ago
All the reasoning is BS. They just want to cut the middleman and keep all the earning which is totally fine but don't insult our intelligence and come up with ridiculous reasoning.
brandon272 11y ago
I told myself a few months ago that I would never put anything else on the MAS nor would I advise a client to. It's a nightmare.
xenadu02 11y ago
The worst part about this is all the problems are easily solved if Apple simply put the resources into it. * The actual MAS store app itself is a horrible piece of garbage wrapping a bunch of web views. Just make it a real native app and rewrite it. * Sandboxing is great, but there will always be things that fall outside the sandbox. Have a "Power User / Developer Tools" category and associated checkbox in iTC that says "My app needs to opt-out of these parts of sandboxing". Put those apps through a much more strenuous review process. * Relatedly, add more entitlements to the Sandbox, even if they also trigger a more in-depth review. * Both iOS and the Mac app stores desperately need feedback mechanisms and some basic customer support tools. This has been obvious since at least iOS v4. I can only imagine this is due to Apple's inability to do good server-side software (and the organization doesn't value it like they value client software). This should automatically give you at least a private way to send a message to users leaving a bad review, then prompt the user to update their review if the response helped them. Asking users to review is hard enough... getting them to update a 1-star review is nearly impossible. * Hire more reviewers. There is no excuse for reviews taking so damn long.
- dangero 11y ago
  "The actual MAS store app itself is a horrible piece of garbage wrapping a bunch of web views. Just make it a real native app and rewrite it." Native app is not really a black and white concept when you're talking about an app that mainly just interprets and displays live data it receives. If it's not html, then it's going to be xml/json/some other markup with a custom presentation layer on top. Why would that be better? In this case I just don't think you can point the finger at webview vs native as a problem or a solution. Yes, the app may be crap, but that seems mostly unrelated to the technology used to build it. I'm guessing it's more a factor of lack of resources, team member quality, management, or inter-departmental communication issues in a large corporation.
  - janfoeh 11y ago
    You're probably right. I would still agree with the parent in that they feel like a badly done webview wrapper, because the symptoms are so similar. iTunes Store, App Store, MAS, Apple Music — there is definitely a pattern there, at least on the desktop. I find them all similarly clunky, slow, ugly and unpleasant to use. Apple almost seems to be inherently incapable of creating a decent store front, and I am curious as to why they have that organizational blindspot.
xs 11y ago
Sketch team. I am a Mac user and heard thing about your product but haven't yet checked it out. This blog post is the first time I've visited your website. Can you answer one thing for me? Why don't you have a link to sketch.com from blog.sketch.com?
- kalleboo 11y ago
  It's there at the bottom ("Home"). Looks like it's a tumblr, I guess they don't have 100% control over the content?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
eldilibra 11y ago
I've downloaded the new, non-MAS version, but I'm not getting any migration instructions, though I should since I've purchased the old version. Troubling, since the post made it sound so easy!
geekamongus 11y ago
So someone can just enter email addresses until one works, then get a license?
- bolle 11y ago
  The license is sent to the email address (says the screenshot). If you have access to that mailbox, you get the license.
racl101 11y ago
Fantastic. I hate the MAS. More and more big products should move their stuff out of there.
zulfishah 11y ago
>App Review continues to take at least a week - this is one of the most frustrating things about Mac (and iOS) development. There's no good reason why this cannot be brought down to 1-2 days by hiring a ton of people to the App Review staff. App Review is not really a technical skill that should be very hard to scale up, and one that can't be outsourced to locations outside of Cupertino. Apple is the most cash-rich company in the world; they can easily throw some money at this problem if they cared about developer satisfaction. Far easier to resolve than problems like sandboxing and upgrade pricing, where there is a major cost for customer satisfaction to think about.
jhbadger 11y ago
How do apps like "Clozure Common Lisp" get around the sandboxing? The Mac App Store version isn't crippled in any way I can see -- it can read and write outside its directory -- for example it can use the quicklisp package manager which stores files in my home directory?
- kybernetyk 11y ago
  It seems not to be sandboxed at all. At least that's what codesign reports for the binary.
  - mh- 11y ago
    I just downloaded it.. there is indeed no entitlements, no container, nothing. I guess it must have an exemption given that it was originally in the app store prior to the mandatory sandboxing deadline[0]. [0] http://www.macworld.com/article/1167055/sandboxing_deadline_arrives_what_it_means_for_apple_developers_and_you.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1167055/sandboxing_deadline_...
Fizzadar 11y ago
So the direct version instantly crashes on 10.11.2 beta, the app store version continues to run perfectly. Oh, the irony.
- bomberstudios 11y ago
  If you used The Unarchiver, Pathfinder or Keka to unzip it, try using OSX's Archive Utility
hakcermani 11y ago
The certificate expiration issue apart I would move to a non appstore version at least for my 1Password. I started using 1Password to store all my passwords including iTunes password and the recovery email. One fine day, I try to launch 1P and i get an error box saying I need to authorize the app on the computer using my iTunes ! Rats now this is a deadlock ! Possible solutions are use the same password for 1Password vault and iTunes or buy iPassword from agilebits directly. I will go the latter route in future.
kyriakos 11y ago
a bit off-topic but they should really port Sketch to Windows and Linux.
kitsunesoba 11y ago
In addition to those mentioned here in the comments already, another problem that publishing through the Mac App Store is how buggy OS X’s sandboxing can be. I don’t know if the problem still exists under 10.11 (I bet it does but I haven’t checked), but one bug that I’ve hit consistently has to do with file open/save dialogs. Open/save dialogs in sandboxed apps aren’t opened directly. Instead, requests are handled by the privileged powerboxd helper daemon, which then passes back user choices to the sandboxed app. This sounds great in theory, but something that happens somewhat frequently is that some part of powerboxd’s dialog initialization silently fails and doesn’t open a dialog, leaving the user confused as to why his requested open dialog didn’t open. Worse, when it happens, it can happen several times in a row, meaning the user can try several times and not get any kind of feedback whatsoever. It’s been a known issue since at least 10.7 and last I checked (10.10) it still hadn’t been fixed. This is a showstopping bug for many kinds of apps but it’s simply been ignored. I’ve been wanting to move off of the MAS but as a one-man shop, writing in serial code support, trial mode, and registration is daunting, not to mention getting old users set up with a new license. I might just delay the move away from MAS until the next major release.
kilon 11y ago
Dont get what the big deal is, Mac App Store is far from the most popular way to install new apps. The vast majority of my desktop apps for my iMac i got them from outside Mac App Store via the web. Out of the 20 apps I got on my dock only 2 are from App store. And I dont think that any of the other apps I have on my dock are even available from app store.

884 points by davidbarker 11y ago

consider China market, things are even worse due to network problem.

>App Review continues to take at least a week That must be the most frustrating/annoying thing in the world. > there are technical limitations imposed by the Mac App Store guidelines (sandboxing and so on) that limit some of the features we want to bring to Sketch I'm sure there are good intentions to what Apple is doing there, but it would be nice to know more details. > and upgrade pricing remains unavailable Man, the Mac App Store really just needs to up its game.

p0la 11y ago
+ having a China wall between review (that are on the app store) and the support (that you may implement in your app if you wish) isn't so great. When selling on Amazon for example, you have a ready to use support platform that allow you to easily interact with customers that seem to be strugling. I feel this really helps avoiding unnecessary frustrations. Also, the best moment to collect feedback is when people are in review mode. And when your users get in review mode, they got straight to the app store where you can't reach them.
roosterjm2k2 11y ago
The intention of most of their decisions is more about their own money... Case in point, it took forever for chrome or opera to come to iOS because they "competed" with the apple product already integrated into the OS, and "provided a less seamless user experience" ... basically, Apple didn't want to be outshined on their own platform...
- scarface74 11y ago
  That's not true. Apple allowed third party browsers - as long as they used WebKit - from day one when the app store opened.
  - Karunamon 11y ago
    Which makes them not really third party browsers anymore, they're basically frames around a UIWebView (which is Safari) which can't do anything interesting.
    - sosborn 11y ago
      UIWebView and Safari are different things. Yes, Safari uses (essentially) UIWebView, but a browser is much more than its rendering engine.
      - Karunamon 11y ago
        The important bit there is "do anything interesting". Forget about any plugins that directly manipulate the markup (so no µ/adblock, no ghostery, no noscript). Yeah, they can display web pages, but iOS Firefox/Chrome provide almost no benefits over the stock safari. Less in fact, since it's a near certainty that Safari is using privileged APIs to integrate with the OS in a way that no other browsers are allowed to. (Didn't a very prominent company get sued for something along these lines back in the 90s?)
        sosborn 11y ago
        You can actually load whatever you want into a UIWebView. You could do the request, manipulate the response and display your modified HTML. Adblocking is of course now integrated into the OS.
- simonh 11y ago
  I'm not sure who you're quoting with those quote marks. It's not Apple though, because I don't believe they ever said any such thing. The reason Apple has always given is security. This is the reason they gave for not allowing third party access to the JIT version of the javascript engine. Their critics at the time claimed this was really because they didn't want other browsers competing with Safari, and they'd never let anyone have it because of that. Then when Apple developed the XPC framework allowing secure remote execution, they opened up the JIT engine to third party browsers in a secure way. So far Apple's actual behaviour has been completely consistent with their stated reasons, which are not the reasons you are 'quoting' from somewhere, and in several respect contrary to the predictions of their critics. Isn't it possible that they are being honest about their motives? But on the other hand, yes, the Mac App Store is a broken mess. Right now it's part of the problem with app distribution on the desktop, not part of the solution.
kybernetyk 11y ago
>That must be the most frustrating/annoying thing in the world. Yes, and sometimes it gets even more frustrating when you get rejected for some minor issue like "the app name in the help menu is mis-spelled". An issue that takes you 3 minutes to fix and re-upload. And then you need to wait another 7 days. (If you're unlucky they find something else for 7 days more of waiting time).
- makecheck 11y ago
  If they're doing that level of scrutiny a million times, they should have released a tool (or even built it into Xcode); something like "Consistency Checker". It's silly of them to reject apps entirely over checks that anyone could do in advance, if only they knew what to look for.
  - ssutch3 11y ago
    There are a lot of automated tests that the upload program and receiving web service already do. But "quality checking" is left up to a human editor.
  - shawn-furyan 11y ago
    Not only would it be nice, but if such an application exists internally at Apple, and they released it with Xcode or something, then perhaps developers could integrate it into their testing infrastructure. If that chain of events happened, then it could bring up the consistency of Apple-centric OS 3rd party software, all the while decreasing time that updates spend in review. This sort of change could be a huge win for Apple, iOS/OSX Developers, and iOS/OSX users.
  - copperx 11y ago
    Oh, they have ; but it doesn't do that many checks.

song 11y ago

I avoid buying from the mac app store as much as possible. If Apple ever decided to change mac os x to no longer allow external applications, I would switch to Linux right away. I don't want to do that because I do like the os X better a GUI... But there's no way I'd stay on a system that wouldn't allow me to do what I want with it.

atonse 11y ago
EDIT: That would be suicide (for the whatever 5% of their sales the mac brings in!). If they imposed a rule like that AND continued to neglect the app store the way they do, droves of developers would leave. Unless they rethink or overhaul their sandboxing system to allow a bigger class of applications (essentially, most of what's out there), they won't be able to move power users to the App Store.
- Alex3917 11y ago
  > That would be suicide Most big companies commit suicide. If you think OS X and the MacBook Pro users are being neglected now, just wait until they have the car.
deleted 11y ago
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- seivan 11y ago
  Would you prefer exclusive Mac OS games through Steam or Mac App Store?
  - 91bananas 11y ago
    Steam all day, especially after this disaster of expired certificates this year [0]. I had a copy of a game from 2007 that will probably never be touched by the developers again, which leaves me $20 in the hole with a broken game. I bought it again from Steam, works better than the App Store version ever did. [0]: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/17/apple-responds-mac-app-store-certificate/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/11/17/apple-responds-mac-app-s...

deleted 11y ago

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Shengbo 11y ago
Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

S_A_P 11y ago

That is my biggest complaint about the Mac App store. I think in general prices have been reduced for most apps. But upgrade pricing is a must for customer retention. If they try to sell me the next version of Logic for 199 Im not buying it. I spent 599 for logic 8 platinum, 129(I think) for logic 9 upgrade and then 199 for Logic pro X. Im not interested in giving them another couple of hundred dollars for a while.

j2bax 11y ago
Logic Pro is a professional DAW as I'm sure you are aware given your years with it. If you can't afford the $199 upgrade, you should probably just use Garageband for free. Personally I prefer this pricing strategy over requiring a monthly subscription. And $199 is far cheaper than the alternatives.
- S_A_P 11y ago
  I agree- however, if you follow what other DAW upgrades cost(and I agree, forget this monthly subscription crap) Studio One Upgrade from 2-3(highest version) - 149 Reason 8 upgrade from any version - 129(sometimes 99) Cubase 8 upgrade - 75 Logic is pretty expensive to upgrade for what usually amounts to a free plugin or two and minor functionality increases...
  - j2bax 11y ago
    I didn't realize they charge so little for their major upgrades. Sorry to assume you didn't do the math.
    - tjl 11y ago
      Another point, Pro Tools HD is $99/year and $199 for the first year. In that case, $199 is reasonable.
thirdsun 11y ago
You picked a bad example. Yes, you need to purchase Logix X for 199, but you probably won't need to pay for any Logic updates in the foreseeable future. While the lack of update pricing is a problem for many developers, it's also a feature of Apple's software. They usually simply don't do priced updates. As far as I remember the upgrade from Logic 9 to X was free on the App Store. Furthermore the full price of 199 could very well be mistaken for an upgrade offer - it's a very reasonable price.

nnx 11y ago

> We should also add that this move is not a knee-jerk reaction to the recent certificate expiration problems that affected so many Mac App Store customers. Any good link/background about this?

jhull 11y ago
HN thread here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10560634 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10560634

nicksergeant 11y ago

Good. The other day the App Store was down and I couldn't use half of my downloaded apps because they failed "verification". I'll be happy as a clam to see more developers move their apps off of the App Store.

deleted 11y ago
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Already__Taken 11y ago
Steam does this to me as well sometimes. Why can't these stores use some kind of encryption that can just validate "Yes at some point in the past this has been purchased on this computer" and leave it at that. Always online frankly seems excessive.
- roosterjm2k2 11y ago
  Steam seems to remember for a while... i've played Euro Truck Sim while traveling with no internet...
  - WorldMaker 11y ago
    It varies with different games on Steam. Steam doesn't require its DRM, so some games have no DRM, even when installed by Steam, which is great. More critically, though, Steam also doesn't require its DRM be exclusive so some games are protected both by Steam's DRM and something else, where that something else may have its own weird requirements before launching a game.
    - facetube 11y ago
      Can confirm. I bought Goat Simulator from Steam about a year ago, have uninstalled Steam, and even moved the application between OSs and devices without any issue.
    - forgotmypassw 11y ago
      That's why we should promote DRM-free software distributions - like GOG.

wyattjoh 11y ago

After I just got profile manager figured out to distribute our Sketch licences at the office... Hope there's some option to manage those licenses.

wyattjoh 11y ago

After I just got profile manager figured out to distribute our Sketch licences at the office... Hope there's some option to manage those licenses.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

cageface 11y ago
Really? They seem to target different kinds of users. For illustration work Affinity Designer has the edge but was still pretty badly suited for the kinds of UI design work people usually do in Sketch. Or at least that was the case the last time I tried it.
- deleted 11y ago
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- deleted 11y ago
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dubcanada 11y ago
Sketch 3 and Affinity Designer are two completely different markets. Sketch is a vector editing program (competing with Adobe Illustrator and Inkscape), Affinity Designer is a photo editing program (competing with Photoshop and Pixelmator).
- deleted 11y ago
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- ChristianGeek 11y ago
  Look again...Affinity is vector-based with the ability to work on a pixel level as well.
- deleted 11y ago
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- quarterto 11y ago
  You're thinking of Affinity Photo. Affinity Designer is probably closer to Illustrator than Sketch is, since it's geared towards vector illustration rather than UI design.

tdkl 11y ago

Thank god there are some developers who have the balls to stop with this "Store" app distribution bonanza brought by the mobile phone. Someone should give Microsoft a hint.

StavrosK 11y ago
> brought by the mobile phone Brought by the iPhone. You can install whatever you want on Android, and multiple stores exist.
- spdionis 11y ago
  But 90% of the users (me included) use only the play store and barely know anything about the rest, let alone trust them (me included again).
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    "People don't use them" is qualitatively different from "they cannot exist", though.
  - oneeyedpigeon 11y ago
    I'm guessing you don't have a source for that because I would be shocked if it were any less than 99%. It would be wonderful to see genuine rivals, offering alternative business models.
    - gtk40 11y ago
      The only significant one would be Amazon's app store, which doesn't really offer any improvements over Google's.
      - goodplay 11y ago
        I use f-droid over te play store whenever I want to install an app.

ilolu 11y ago

Anyone else not getting the mentioned popup when launching the new Sketch ?

an4rchy 11y ago
Did you overwrite the App Store installed version or did you just download from scratch and install? I overwrote the MAS version and it came up.
- ilolu 11y ago
  I tried overwriting too. But did not get the popup.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

milen 11y ago

Apple has completely lost the goodwill of Mac developers. The one and only reason the ones that haven't gone bankrupt are still staying is because they have no other choice due to platform lock-in. Every single conversation that I've had with indies recently have gone along the same lines: Apple is killing the indie scene. I wrote about the MAS exodus [1] more than a year ago and people were skeptical back then. Think again - here's a list of great apps [3] that are only available outside the MAS. Those are not just small time hobbyist apps - those are professional tools. Pieter (founder of Bohemian, company behind Sketch) listed many problems with the MAS at a recent conference [5]. Wil Shipley (well-known within the community) has also written about it [6]. And now you have another flagship OS X app ditching the MAS due to the multitude problems it creates. The message is loud and clear - if you're a real software business, not a hobbyist at home, don't waste your time with the MAS - it simply does not allow you to run your busienss properly. When the companies building the flagship apps for the platform publicly state they cannot do business due to the restrictions of the Mac App Store and then abandon the dysfunctional virtual marketplace, then you know Apple have pushed them beyond the edge. No company would just decide to leave the MAS unless the situation is hurting them significantly and holding them back. And unfortunately, there are almost no words to describe how bad the MAS has been for the ecosystem and innovation on the platform. [2] You also get ridiculous stuff like Intuit because of the limitations [4]. Even if Apple fixes the Mac App Store one day, which is highly unlikely given that in 5 years they have done absolutely nothing, developers have been burned once and will be skeptical. You know, the whole "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". When people say that everything is fine and dandy with the MAS, they seem to be misguided - no one is asking Apple to make everyone a millionare. Developers are asking for Apple not to force simplistic business models and allow companies to have the ability to choose what works for them. I used to be hopeful for years but no more. I have zero faith that Apple will listen to indies and solve their problem, they've got no leverage. And that's a real pity. Instead of pairing high quality hardware with high quality software, we have a platform encouraging predatory tactics and milking of customers. A truly sad situation. And that's a real shame because the platform I love and have invested a decade in deserves better. It might even be too late - the damage to developers has been enormous. [1] http://blog.helftone.com/mac-app-store-the-subtle-exodus/ http://blog.helftone.com/mac-app-store-the-subtle-exodus/ [2] http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/12/no-one-minding-the-store/ http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/12/no-one-minding-the-store/ [3] http://dancounsell.typed.com/articles/not-on-the-mac-app-store http://dancounsell.typed.com/articles/not-on-the-mac-app-sto... [4] http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/24/quicken-2015-switches-from-mac-app-store-to-direct-updates/ http://mjtsai.com/blog/2015/11/24/quicken-2015-switches-from... [5] https://twitter.com/tmaes/status/657213874970763267 https://twitter.com/tmaes/status/657213874970763267 [6] https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/669321851793879040 https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/669321851793879040

__m 11y ago

Well the new sketch crashes instantly, i hope it doesn't take them a week to release an update

bomberstudios 11y ago
If you used The Unarchiver, Pathfinder or Keka to unzip it, try using OSX's Archive Utility
- henriks 11y ago
  Surprisingly this turned out to be the issue; The Unarchiver messed up some file attributes it seems. Thanks.

VeryVito 11y ago

I'm glad to see successful apps exiting The Mac App Store, and I hope others will follow. Unlike its iOS counterpart, which is great in many ways (new app discovery not being one of them), the MAS has unfortunately done more harm than good to the once-thriving indy Mac app-development scene. It offers a low cost of entry, but also encourages "pump-and-dump" development, in which developers are actively (though surely not intentionally) discouraged from updating their apps once they launch. It's designed to be the "anti-professional" means of app distribution, and it never reaches any higher.

jonknee 11y ago
Which is a real shame because it's great to not worry about billing information, key management and pushing out updates (for both users and developers).
- jasonbarone 11y ago
  This is the part I wish could be solved. I hate having to input billing into various websites and apps and not being able to track licenses unless I do myself.
- oneeyedpigeon 11y ago
  How viable would it be for a third-party alternative to act as a 'broker' between customer and developer, just to handle those aspects you mention?
  - jonknee 11y ago
    Steam has done well with that model for games, but being Mac only would be a tough sell. Apple's big advantage was instantly getting the App Store on every Mac.
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      Who says they have to be Mac only? It'd probably work out better to be on all major platforms, that way you can sell the feature of buy once, run on all platforms the software runs on. You also could allow single platform things onto your store too, like Sketch.

ThomPete 11y ago

I used to have an app in the MAS but recently removed it and is using Paddle instead. There are so many things wrong with the MAS. Sandbox is the biggest complaint I have. I can understand it with the iOS to some degree. At least there they are constantly providing new features and hardware changes to help apps keep being innovative. To give an example of the Sandbox issue. We are using AppleScript for some of our logic in the background. Because of the Sandbox every time AS is used a little gear pops up in the top menu of OSX. This started with Yosemite. But worse than that. The implimentation of this security measure was completely sloppy. The gear didn't just appear it also rearranged the top bar icons and I of course got a horde of users complaining. We tried many things to solve this but had to finally give up and just offer MAS users to switch to our non-MAS version. You would think that at least people would be able to turn off such a thing with apps they knew were ok. But no. Furthermore reviews can really make you or break you. For a long time we had good reviews because I spent a lot of time making sure people understood why the spinning gear was there. But after a while one star reviews started appearing and we had no way of mitigating that or contact the user and tell them they could switch to the non MAS app if they had that issue. And so I finally realized that if you want to actually do any innovation with your apps and built a proper business MAS is not for you. I am beginning to wonder if there is room for an alternate App Store based on the the Developer Certificate or some security setup open sourced. Anyway. My next product wont even be going on the MAS. It's simply not worth it. It's just a distribution channel for Apple to show their latest features (the only way you get featured)

danieldk 11y ago
Although I am happy that apps are moving out of the MAS (it is slow, updates are slow, no possibility to offer upgrade licenses), as a user, Sandboxing is something that I want for every possible application. The model where an app can e.g. touch your whole home directory should go.
- ThomPete 11y ago
  I don't disagree but I think there must be ways around this. For instance I don't mind Apples requirement that you have to ask for permission to access various files or folders but it should be possible and not come up with things like a spinning gear skating around your menubar. Those things are just sloppy. A simple. "I trust this app to do more crazy things with my machine" feature must be possible to do.

seanalltogether 11y ago

I would love to take Space Gremlin away from the mac app store. I've had to do some pretty wonky workarounds to offer people a "pro" version to escape the sandbox and it's a constant support headache. I'm just not sure if managing the payment network, licensing and distribution support is going to be even more of a headache. I'm genuinely surprised that nobody as set up a 3rd party app store that can compete with apple and microsoft and offer a cross platform solution. Get a big company like Adobe to anchor it and I would jump over in a heartbeat.

eljimmy 11y ago
I don't think Apple would ever allow something of that nature, unfortunately.
- scarface74 11y ago
  Apple doesn't have to "allow" you to install apps on the Mac.
detaro 11y ago
> I'm genuinely surprised that nobody as set up a 3rd party app store that can compete with apple and microsoft and offer a cross platform solution. Interestingly, the only option I can think of is Steam. They also sell non-game software, but mostly creative tools.
kybernetyk 11y ago
> I'm just not sure if managing the payment network, licensing and distribution support is going to be even more of a headache. From my own experience (I have a few apps on the MAS + outside of it) something like Devmate+Fastrpring or Paddle makes licensing and payment processing pretty painless. Of course there's other issues like what happens when Paddle or Devmate go belly up ande stop processing license activations. But still it takes only a weekend to get it to work and once you get it to run it just works. The real problem though is that the Mac software ecosystem outside the MAS is dead. No user goes to those huge software directory websites anymore (my traffic from MacUpdate & co. is almost zero). (Funnily enough before the MAS went live Apple had a list of OS X software. It was a great source of high quality traffic back then. But it wen't offline with the introduction of the MAS). The only way to get your app infront of users is via SEO (which means that you take your eggs from the MAS basket and put them all into the Google basket) or by spending loads of money on PPC ads which won't give you a positive ROI because $39 is now considered hugely expensive for software. Social media, blog posts, etc. are all nice in theory but won't convert to paying users. You made a funny cat picture that went viral and sends thousands of reddit users to your website? Great, but no one will download your app. They just want the cat picture. The same goes for paying $10k for a blog post over at daringfireball. People will visit your website but won't download. Buying ads directly on blogs, forums or twitter/facebook? No one cares for those. You will just lose money. Marketing your own software got really hard nowadays and if you're not one of the "famous" developers removing your app from the Mac App Store just means that you will lose most of your revenue. Great for Sketch that they can pull it off. But most devs can't. Which makes Apple's negligence of the MAS even worse.

robmcm 11y ago

The Mac app store is great for simple, do one thing apps. I purchased a little app that stitched panoramic photos together, and it worked great and cost next to nothing. However I think it's a long way off working for every app and developer.

kremdela 11y ago

I'll just play devils advocate here. As a consumer, I really like buying from the Mac App store solely for the user experience of, when I eventually new a new Macbook Pro, I can easily sync all of my purchases, rather than having to retrieve the licenses and go download the latest version of each piece of software I've purchased. As a developer, I've heard countless horror stories and totally understand.

ismail 11y ago
For syncing apps and tools have you tried homebrew and cask. Create a brewfile and stick it in your dotfiles.
- laveur 11y ago
  Brew is not consumer friendly at all. My parents (in their 60's) own a mac that I bought for them. It was a great decision for me as I barely have to support them for technical problems. I only get questions on how to do something. If I was to try and explain brew to them it would be a disaster. Explaining the Mac App Store is far easier.
  - oalders 11y ago
    I feel the same way. https://www.cakebrew.com/ https://www.cakebrew.com/ does make brew a bit friendlier, but it's still not simple enough for me to explain to my parents.
  - jasonbarone 11y ago
    Brew is not even tech-person friendly. I'm comfortable with the command line and I had a ton of problems getting cask to work. I LOVE the idea and I will use it every time I setup a computer, but there's so many issues to work out. Mainly, some apps not updating correctly, the storage of app versions in cask, settings, licensing. It's a mess. I really hope it gets better. I'd contribute if I was knowledgeable enough to do so.
    - 11y ago

tammer 11y ago

I've always wondered: is it the limitations of the sandbox that are the problem, or is it expectation? If we never had access to execute outside the sandbox, would we simply say we "see the reasoning" as we do for iOS?

glossyscr 11y ago

Sketch was the killer app of the entire MAS. For me it's even the killer app for OSX, there's nothing equal for that price on Windows.

relaxatorium 11y ago

The thing that's craziest about the MAS to me is how bad the actual application is. It's super slow, constantly hangs, and is just such a bad experience from the consumer side that it undermines the (very real) benefits of having a centralized store of applications you've purchased and installed. It'd be one thing (and a fairly standard Apple move) if the customer experience was good and they didn't care about trampling developers to get it that way, but the actual customer facing software that is the App Store is a shockingly bad piece of software.

to3m 11y ago
I dread ever having to run the Mac App Store to get an upgrade. (Luckily, I only have to do it for Xcode and OS X.) It asks for my password literally every 15-20 seconds. Once I tell it to upgrade everything, it selects only one upgrade, and keeps telling me there are upgrades. While the upgrades are going, it keeps asking me for my password. At that point I go off and watch TV. When I come back, it's actually downloaded all of the upgrades, and there's a message about how there are more. After I've entered my password a few more times, it tells me I'm up to date. Then it asks me whether I'd like to upgrade. I guess once their work experience students get bored working on Xcode they put them on this instead.
- sosborn 11y ago
  > It asks for my password literally every 15-20 seconds. This hasn't been my experience at all. I wonder what's going on because that sounds super annoying.
  - to3m 11y ago
    As far as I can tell, it's not universal, but still somewhat common. (My computer has always done it ever since I bought it new in April.) It is a bit annoying. But since I use the MAS so irregularly, I can get by. I do wonder what the cause is, though. I'm less certain I'd like to know how Apple have so far failed to get to the bottom of it.
    - 11y ago

cdnsteve 11y ago

Has Sketch considered Steam? They support Mac.

theinternetman 11y ago
The Steam mac client is pretty janky which might explain them not using it.
- colmvp 11y ago
  Janky is putting it kindly

optimuspaul 11y ago

I pretty much only use the Mac App Store anymore. There are maybe 2 apps I use that I get outside of it. I have a bunch that I are woefully out of date because their developers abandoned me. It's too bad that rather than trying to push to make it a better place developers are just leaving.

URSpider94 11y ago
How exactly do developers "push to make it a better place?" It's owned by Apple, nobody else has a voice, and Apple must be 100% clear on the perceived shortcomings seen by developers. It's not like there's a quarterly App Store Community Meeting where people can go and complain ...
profmonocle 11y ago
Developers have been sending feedback to Apple for many years, and they haven't listened. The only option left is to vote with their feet. Look on the bright side - losing big-name apps might finally force Apple to fix the MAS, then those devs might come back.

aerialcombat 11y ago

They should seriously do something about the review times. I'm sure they can come up with a plenty of good solutions if they wanted to. I suggest maybe giving developers a bank of a set number of expedited review passes per year or so, so they can use it when they really need it. Damn it.

stevetrewick 11y ago
It actually works like this in theory. You can get a couple of expedited reviews for critical or urgent fixes [0], but Apples definition of 'critical' and 'urgent' don't typically include having just shipped a crash bug that will effect your entire user base unless you are Rovio are a similarly large actor. [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/app-review/ https://developer.apple.com/support/app-review/
- chillacy 11y ago
  Yea, I'm a small dev and I did that last time a critical feature of my app was broken, and the review still ended up taking a a week. Meanwhile people were sending me support emails and I know even more were silently frustrated. It's not fun to be powerless over your own destiny like this.
- profmonocle 11y ago
  I once got them to expedite an emergency bug fix, and my company was nowhere near a "large actor". But this was waaaay back in 2009 so I can't be sure they're still that willing to help small devs. The expedited review took 24 hours when the average was over ten days at that time. Still, any review time is really sucks as a developer. Shipping a big release and having to wait 10+ days to get feedback really slowed us down and hurt my enthusiasm as a developer. Honestly, I'm glad iOS development isn't the main focus of my job anymore - the SDK and tooling is fantastic, but provisioning and App Store submission is awful.

aerialcombat 11y ago

mrspeaker 11y ago

Ha... nooow they do it. I purchased Sketch version 2 for 50 euros when I lived in France. Then I moved to the US and got a new computer - at the same time version 3 came out. There was no way for me to get version 2 back: I tried the old "just re-purchase it and it'll end up costing you $0" (which worked for a bunch of other apps - but they were still on the same version). Instead I payed another $70 for version 3. I wrote to Apple and got my money back... but now I'm stuck with a dodgy version of 3 (that I'm supposed to delete and can't get updates for) and no way to get 2 back. Do I actually own version 2? I don't know!

mosburger 11y ago

What are the alternatives to MAS? I've been considering distributing a small OSX app at a fairly low price based on its value. Are there any good ways to sell low-priced licensed software that support pushing updates to users easily? Edit: I should mention that in my particular case, the app is an Electron (formerly Atom Shell) app, so a solution that involves an ObjC library might be a bit difficult to implement.

jawngee 11y ago
http://paddle.com http://paddle.com
- mosburger 11y ago
  Yeah, Paddle looks cool but I'm not sure how I'd integrate it w/ a "fake" faux-native app builder like Electron. Probably just ignorance on my part. :)

tdkl 11y ago

Also what's wrong with Apple and their approach to software lately ? Have they become just a hardware and accessories company? Chris Pirillo gave a great talk about all the issues with the upfront statement that Android Marshmallow runs better on older hardware then iOS 9 on theirs (20min): http://youtu.be/n5iuR8pKBfQ http://youtu.be/n5iuR8pKBfQ

jlarocco 11y ago
Glad I'm not the only one noticing it. I dumped OSX and installed Debian on my iMac a couple months ago because Apple's software has just sucked the last few iterations, and if it weren't for Capture One and LightRoom I'd be running OSX on my MBP, too. If it doesn't get better soon, my next phone is going to be an Android.

Jasber 11y ago

Two years ago I released a Mac app (https://heyfocus.com/ https://heyfocus.com/) that couldn't be in the MAS due to sandbox restrictions (tried 3 times—frustrating experience). I sat on it for an entire year because I was convinced nobody buys stuff outside of the AppStore anymore. A year ago, the project still had really good traction, so I decided to try to sell it directly as a test (using Paddle.com). Boy, was I wrong! TONS of people buy outside the MAS, and Focus is doing better than ever. If you're questioning it like I was, give it a shot.

ThomPete 11y ago
And there is a very good reason for that. People don't use the app store to find solutions to problems, they use google for that. I had my app all the way up on top selling apps on the MAS and it had no effect on my sales.
zanedeg 11y ago
I use focus everyday, thanks for the great app!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
jonnynezbo 11y ago
Two things: - I use Focus, and it's awesome - I prefer to buy outside of the MAS, and always check to see if the developer sells directly before buying there
metasean 11y ago
Tangent: From Firefox, if I increase the font n https://heyfocus.com/ https://heyfocus.com/ (for accessibility reasons) the buttons _come apart_ (specifically the right sides overlap the lower center of their button). Even with that font size increase, the text under the buttons is still extremely hard to read!
chrisper 11y ago
Good choice. I stopped using the AppStore because I hate how it connects an app to my apple ID. For example, when I came to the U.S. I had to create a new AppleID. So each time I want an app from the old AppleID I have to change to the German app store. Quite annoying.

netheril96 11y ago

Sandboxing is one of the pain points of Mac App Store. I certainly would like to see sandboxing being more prevalent on the desktop, but not like the MAS way. The user should have the final say of the way in which a sandbox allows and restricts the application. Just for example, I should be able to completely trust an app with access to the filesystem, not with all the popups and confirmations, while disallowing network access from it.

ksk 11y ago

I've always seen all app stores as a blatant money grab. A digital storefront like that does not require that much money to run (no comparison with supermarkets and the like which have heavy operational costs). I mean the search barely works, discoverability sucks. One of the primary drivers for app revenue is handpicked winners and losers via their own app lists, and some of the stores are so amateurish that you have to re-download the entire app to update it. Of the ones that we have, Steam is probably the least grubby. I would much rather they charge a flat review/update/host fee per app with maybe tiered hosting pricing for multi-GB apps (which apart from steam games, I'm pretty sure few people download anyway). It's hard enough trying to run a successful software business and then these companies go out and beat their chest with "WE paid developers billions this year" rather than "we took away 30% revenue from developers".

fhdaily 11y ago

http://goo.gl/4j18gZ http://goo.gl/4j18gZ check this

vbezhenar 11y ago

IMO sandboxing on desktop is failed attempt. Browser is a sandbox platform. Nobody will download some shady application and run it, even if it's sandboxed (but a lot of people don't really mind to visit a shady website). If an application is in AppStore, it means that Apple got some legal documents from developer, it means that Apple performed some automated scans on application binaries. For me it's enough to have some trust. Sandboxing is not needed and it actually making some apps unusable or even impossible to implement. Desktop apps always were in control of the entire computer. And they are now, unless you are downloading them from the AppStore. That's why a PC is much more useful than an iPad or iPhone for power users.

pkamb 11y ago
And it's not as if non-Sandboxed applications won't be used. They'll just be distributed outside the app store. So all of the potentially "dangerous" apps are one-more-step removed from Apple's oversight and ability to pull the app and halt downloads. Gatekeeper gives them some power in this regard, but what's the point of not allowing them in the Mac App Store? Is the PR from having a keylogger in the MAS really that different from the recent Instagram password harvester for iOS, or a Mac keylogger that was direct-downloaded?

timetraveller 11y ago

All the reasoning is BS. They just want to cut the middleman and keep all the earning which is totally fine but don't insult our intelligence and come up with ridiculous reasoning.

brandon272 11y ago

I told myself a few months ago that I would never put anything else on the MAS nor would I advise a client to. It's a nightmare.

xenadu02 11y ago

The worst part about this is all the problems are easily solved if Apple simply put the resources into it. * The actual MAS store app itself is a horrible piece of garbage wrapping a bunch of web views. Just make it a real native app and rewrite it. * Sandboxing is great, but there will always be things that fall outside the sandbox. Have a "Power User / Developer Tools" category and associated checkbox in iTC that says "My app needs to opt-out of these parts of sandboxing". Put those apps through a much more strenuous review process. * Relatedly, add more entitlements to the Sandbox, even if they also trigger a more in-depth review. * Both iOS and the Mac app stores desperately need feedback mechanisms and some basic customer support tools. This has been obvious since at least iOS v4. I can only imagine this is due to Apple's inability to do good server-side software (and the organization doesn't value it like they value client software). This should automatically give you at least a private way to send a message to users leaving a bad review, then prompt the user to update their review if the response helped them. Asking users to review is hard enough... getting them to update a 1-star review is nearly impossible. * Hire more reviewers. There is no excuse for reviews taking so damn long.

dangero 11y ago
"The actual MAS store app itself is a horrible piece of garbage wrapping a bunch of web views. Just make it a real native app and rewrite it." Native app is not really a black and white concept when you're talking about an app that mainly just interprets and displays live data it receives. If it's not html, then it's going to be xml/json/some other markup with a custom presentation layer on top. Why would that be better? In this case I just don't think you can point the finger at webview vs native as a problem or a solution. Yes, the app may be crap, but that seems mostly unrelated to the technology used to build it. I'm guessing it's more a factor of lack of resources, team member quality, management, or inter-departmental communication issues in a large corporation.
- janfoeh 11y ago
  You're probably right. I would still agree with the parent in that they feel like a badly done webview wrapper, because the symptoms are so similar. iTunes Store, App Store, MAS, Apple Music — there is definitely a pattern there, at least on the desktop. I find them all similarly clunky, slow, ugly and unpleasant to use. Apple almost seems to be inherently incapable of creating a decent store front, and I am curious as to why they have that organizational blindspot.

xs 11y ago

Sketch team. I am a Mac user and heard thing about your product but haven't yet checked it out. This blog post is the first time I've visited your website. Can you answer one thing for me? Why don't you have a link to sketch.com from blog.sketch.com?

kalleboo 11y ago
It's there at the bottom ("Home"). Looks like it's a tumblr, I guess they don't have 100% control over the content?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

eldilibra 11y ago

I've downloaded the new, non-MAS version, but I'm not getting any migration instructions, though I should since I've purchased the old version. Troubling, since the post made it sound so easy!

geekamongus 11y ago

So someone can just enter email addresses until one works, then get a license?

bolle 11y ago
The license is sent to the email address (says the screenshot). If you have access to that mailbox, you get the license.

racl101 11y ago

Fantastic. I hate the MAS. More and more big products should move their stuff out of there.

zulfishah 11y ago

>App Review continues to take at least a week - this is one of the most frustrating things about Mac (and iOS) development. There's no good reason why this cannot be brought down to 1-2 days by hiring a ton of people to the App Review staff. App Review is not really a technical skill that should be very hard to scale up, and one that can't be outsourced to locations outside of Cupertino. Apple is the most cash-rich company in the world; they can easily throw some money at this problem if they cared about developer satisfaction. Far easier to resolve than problems like sandboxing and upgrade pricing, where there is a major cost for customer satisfaction to think about.

jhbadger 11y ago

How do apps like "Clozure Common Lisp" get around the sandboxing? The Mac App Store version isn't crippled in any way I can see -- it can read and write outside its directory -- for example it can use the quicklisp package manager which stores files in my home directory?

kybernetyk 11y ago
It seems not to be sandboxed at all. At least that's what codesign reports for the binary.
- mh- 11y ago
  I just downloaded it.. there is indeed no entitlements, no container, nothing. I guess it must have an exemption given that it was originally in the app store prior to the mandatory sandboxing deadline[0]. [0] http://www.macworld.com/article/1167055/sandboxing_deadline_arrives_what_it_means_for_apple_developers_and_you.html http://www.macworld.com/article/1167055/sandboxing_deadline_...

Fizzadar 11y ago

So the direct version instantly crashes on 10.11.2 beta, the app store version continues to run perfectly. Oh, the irony.

bomberstudios 11y ago
If you used The Unarchiver, Pathfinder or Keka to unzip it, try using OSX's Archive Utility

hakcermani 11y ago

The certificate expiration issue apart I would move to a non appstore version at least for my 1Password. I started using 1Password to store all my passwords including iTunes password and the recovery email. One fine day, I try to launch 1P and i get an error box saying I need to authorize the app on the computer using my iTunes ! Rats now this is a deadlock ! Possible solutions are use the same password for 1Password vault and iTunes or buy iPassword from agilebits directly. I will go the latter route in future.

kyriakos 11y ago

a bit off-topic but they should really port Sketch to Windows and Linux.

kitsunesoba 11y ago

In addition to those mentioned here in the comments already, another problem that publishing through the Mac App Store is how buggy OS X’s sandboxing can be. I don’t know if the problem still exists under 10.11 (I bet it does but I haven’t checked), but one bug that I’ve hit consistently has to do with file open/save dialogs. Open/save dialogs in sandboxed apps aren’t opened directly. Instead, requests are handled by the privileged powerboxd helper daemon, which then passes back user choices to the sandboxed app. This sounds great in theory, but something that happens somewhat frequently is that some part of powerboxd’s dialog initialization silently fails and doesn’t open a dialog, leaving the user confused as to why his requested open dialog didn’t open. Worse, when it happens, it can happen several times in a row, meaning the user can try several times and not get any kind of feedback whatsoever. It’s been a known issue since at least 10.7 and last I checked (10.10) it still hadn’t been fixed. This is a showstopping bug for many kinds of apps but it’s simply been ignored. I’ve been wanting to move off of the MAS but as a one-man shop, writing in serial code support, trial mode, and registration is daunting, not to mention getting old users set up with a new license. I might just delay the move away from MAS until the next major release.

kilon 11y ago

Dont get what the big deal is, Mac App Store is far from the most popular way to install new apps. The vast majority of my desktop apps for my iMac i got them from outside Mac App Store via the web. Out of the 20 apps I got on my dock only 2 are from App store. And I dont think that any of the other apps I have on my dock are even available from app store.