9 ms·
The McDonalds Monopoly Fraud (2014)
- nodesocket 11y agoSomewhat unrelated, but there is a great documentary on Michael Larson; who figured out a software randomness flaw in the game show Press Your Luck, and exploited it live on TV to the tune of $110,000. In that day, $110,000 was an obscene amount of money to win on a gameshow. No game show was awarding even close to that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzNMCXWCZzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzNMCXWCZzQ
- minimaxir 11y agoThe big thing about the Press Your Luck incident that people seem to overlook is that finding the flaw was half of the con, exploiting the flaw was the much harder part. (that is, getting selected to being onto the show, answering the toss-up questions, and getting the patterns/timing correct). It was more-or-less luck that everything worked correctly, and as noted in the documentary, the con almost failed at each point. The Monopoly incident in comparison is just boring manipulation of insider information.
- emehrkay 11y agoCan you explain the con and how to exploit it? Seems interesting.
- Tushon 11y agoSuggested viewing: documentary about that day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzNMCXWCZzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzNMCXWCZzQ
- minimaxir 11y agoWikipedia has a good written summary of the con: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Larson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Larson The linked documentary is well worth watching, though.
- emehrkay 11y agoThank you, I tired watching the video, but wasn't that invested in the whole thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Larson#Preparations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Larson#Preparations). That was pretty straight-forward and kinda simple. I wonder why the selections and big money squares were not randomized, could it had been a computing limitation?
- minimaxir 11y ago> I wonder why the selections and big money squares were not randomized, could it had been a computing limitation? Keep in mind that this happened in 1984. The board squares were physical panels, and the panel selection software was analog. In gaming, a random outcome is one the player can't accurately predict or influence. The Press Your Luck board at the time fit that definition, but Larson proved that was not a safe assumption.
- jamesbrownuhh 11y agoAgreed about the documentary. I don't think it's fair to describe this as a "con", though. Larson merely spotted a consistency in the game, and played it to maximum effect. All perfectly within the rules and regulations, no deception or "con" involved - and hence no reason for CBS not to pay out, which they did. As the documentary points out, they just didn't think that anyone would be able to "aim and hit" the square they wanted - but they were mistaken, and paid for that complacency. They did not make the mistake a second time.
- froo 11y ago> and getting the patterns/timing correct As a kid, I was banned from an arcade in my home town for being a bit too good on a certain ticket giving arcade machine (probably around 1995) The manager was having to reload the machine with tickets too often when I was on it, it actually got to the point where she was standing behind me, watching me win the jackpot probably 2 out of 3 games... after winning several hundred dollars worth of prizes/tickets, I was awarded my tickets and asked not to return. I actually did my Christmas shopping that year at the prize counter with tickets.
- traeregan 11y agoAlso mostly unrelated, but a fun read... here is an article from 1986 about Frank Maggio beating a scratch off promotion to the tune of millions of dollars through a combination of finding a pattern in the way they were printed, and the loose rules of the game: http://articles.latimes.com/1986-01-19/news/mn-1227_1_scratch-off-cards http://articles.latimes.com/1986-01-19/news/mn-1227_1_scratc... Another article I read said he later went on to settle for "undisclosed amount of millions of dollars".
- dghughes 11y agoThat reminds me of a situation on the Price is Right where someone figured out the pattern. http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a7922/price-is-right-perfect-bid-0810/ http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a7922/price-is-right-pe...
- toast0 11y agoThanks for that, this was my favorite show when I was young, and I thought I was pretty good at the prices; I'm glad to know that there was a pattern behind it, so there was something to be good at. :)
- rquantz 11y agoOdd and also somewhat unrelated, Peter Tomarken is the brother of my next door neighbor growing up. I used to go over to their house and have tea. I knew his brother was a game show host, but didn't know what show or anything... weird to see that pop up.
- nommm-nommm 11y agoI don't think they are at all related. Michael Larson wasn't a theft. He played fair and square and got no unfair advantages. He broke no rules and collected his winnings. The McDonalds guy just stole a bunch of pieces, gave back the money he made, and went to jail. They have nothing to do with each other.
- vinchuco 11y ago>Jacobson oversaw a security process that began at a printing plant where pieces were made, separated by value and stored in a vault. He was responsible for transporting those pieces... Thinking a system is secure just because there is a process in place, however careless the design, seems like a recurring theme (society?). I wonder if it's a psychological bias (or lack of security awareness) in the sense that you'd rather trust an system you can observe than a secure black box. Or maybe it is the fact that the workings of the system in place can act as a distraction to its possible flaws?
- thearn4 11y ago> Thinking a system is secure just because there is a process in place ISO certification in a nutshell
- jacquesm 11y agoIt's perfectly fine to put strychnine in the guacamole, as long as you document it.
- vidarh 11y agoMore like, people who misunderstand what ISO 9001 certification means in a nutshell. ISO-9001 is not meant to certify quality, but to certify that your quality management meets certain criteria, so that relevant information is recorded and made available for people to judge if if meets their requirements.
- rdtsc 11y ago> Thinking a system is secure just because there is a process in place, The importance of the process is mainly to allow passing of responsability to someone lower down the chain or sideways ("competent external contractors we hired"), then insurance takes care of the rest.
- lemevi 11y agoThe $1mm donation to St Jude's was pretty classy, even given the crooked scam. I hope it helps some kids.
- peteretep 11y agoYou don't get to have a brand as profitable as McDs by quibbling over minor gifts to charities
- mehwoot 11y agoWell it's pretty easy to donate money when it isn't yours, and it was much easier to anonymously donate the winning piece than it was to organise someone you knew to take it and get a cut.
- marincounty 11y agoI think St. Jude's is a great nonprofit. That said, I heard a few years ago that the charity is literally overfunded. I don't know if it's true anymore, but I wish people would look into charities before giving that much needed money. I don't know why people who have the ability to give to charities--never seem to look into the financials? I know what I said is sac religious, and I'm probally wrong. I just know of a lot of smaller nonprofits that need money. They don't incorporate in delware. The principal founders don't make much money. I probally shouldn't have said anything?
- Johnny555 11y ago
- Igglyboo 11y agoDoes McDonalds do monopoly anymore? I noticed the article is from 2014 but this year they've been doing a similar promotion but centered around the NFL.
- madeofpalk 11y agoThey did it this year in Australia.
- NickNameNick 11y agoAnd NZ
- grecy 11y agoAnd Canada
- sneak 11y agoAnd Germany! I'm on my third Big 'n' Tasty this week! :D They also have shrimp and a really good cherry pie thing that also come with pieces...
- froo 11y ago... Where we've also lost the Flurry out of our McFlurry's
- joezydeco 11y agoIn the United States it's typically in September or October, in 2015 it was apparently replaced with the Minions Sweepstakes promotion.
- Igglyboo 11y agoI'm in the US and I haven't seen any Minions Sweepstakes promotions, just NFL stuff for the past few months.
- 11y ago
- minimaxir 11y agoSee also: the discussion thread on Reddit, where the submission there likely led to the submission here: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3um3zh/til_that_from_1995_to_2000_the_winner_of_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3um3zh/til_t...
- jimrandomh 11y agoSo, McDonalds bundled lottery tickets with all their products. The lottery structure was set up to deceive people who didn't think about it too hard, by making buyers collect sets in which one out of the set was orders of magnitude rarer than the others, but getting the common ones would make them feel like they had made progress. Then, for six years, every single one of the large prizes gets stolen by an employee. Why are companies allowed to bundle lottery tickets with their products? It's no less of a tax on stupidity than the standalone lotteries are.
- ams6110 11y agoPurchase is not required to play these games. You can walk into a McDonald's and ask for a game piece and they have to give you one.
- jimrandomh 11y agoThat sounds like little more than a theoretical loophole. Almost no one will pay the time and fuel cost to go to a McDonald's if they aren't going to eat anything, and McDonald's knows this.
- oldmanjay 11y agoTrivially, there are tremendous numbers of people who, by dint of their normal day-to-day, need expend no effort to get to McDonalds. Have you other objections that can be addressed?
- jsprogrammer 11y agoPeople are buying the food. The "lottery ticket" you get is just a marketing gimmick, not an actual game of chance in exchange for money.
- nitwit005 11y agoAssuming they have to walk anywhere. People have tried rigging games like this by sending thousands of letters to the address to request entry.
- Patronus_Charm 11y agoIt seems like he got a fair punishment for this. I guess for me its more along the lines of victimless crime. If you gobbling down burgers to try and win money knowing the odds, you clearly aren't that bright to begin with.
- jMyles 11y agoPutting everything else aside for a moment: are you saying that people who "aren't that bright" can't be victims?
- Dylan16807 11y agoMore that there's no material effect to remove the rare prizes on a lottery that are only worth a penny on the dollar combined.
- iopq 11y agoSo scamming millions of dollar is OK, as long as there are enough victims to absorb that cost?
- ajnin 11y agoBy that reasoning you should stop paying your taxes, since everybody else can compensate by paying a tiny, imperceptible amount more.
- Dylan16807 11y agoI didn't say the theft was justified. But I would agree that nonpayment of taxes is not a crime that "victimizes" hundreds of millions of people. The main value of the product is the food. Even if all the prizes were stolen, I'm not sure if there would be a 'victim' in the consumer.
- unreal37 11y agoI think most of the people arrested for this ended up serving very little time in jail, and even he was released after serving a fraction of his original sentence.
- Steko 11y agoFor the current NFL promotion they have game pieces on the medium drink, large fries and big mac (and some other sandwiches/main items but not all of them). So if you order the big mac meal with an upgraded fries but regular drink you get 3 pieces but if, like me, you unhack the system by ordering a quarter pounder meal with upgraded drink only you get zero game pieces.
- RockyMcNuts 11y agoThen there's the woman with a Stanford Ph.D. in statistics who has won million-dollar lottery prizes 4 times - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023514/Joan-R-Ginther-won-lottery-4-times-Stanford-University-statistics-PhD.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023514/Joan-R-Ginth...
- nl 11y agoShe has a friend (Anna Morales) who's won a number of smaller prizes too[1]. Seems a fairly unlikely co-incidence. There's the Canadian statistician who found a weakness in the algorithm producing "random" scratchie tickets[2]. [1] http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/How_lottery_legend_Joan_Ginther_used_odds_Uncle_Sam_to_win_millions.html http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/How_lottery_l... [2] http://www.wired.com/2011/01/ff_lottery/ http://www.wired.com/2011/01/ff_lottery/
- gPphX 11y agoThere were also game pieces distributed in Sunday newspapers.