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Desperate not to have children
- carsongross 11y agoSeems like natural selection would take care of this sort of thing quickly enough...
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoWould you care to explain.
- maskedinvader 11y agoI think he/she means, Those who feel the same way would not contribute to the gene pool and hence eventually only those who want to have kids will remain, He/She of course makes the assumption that there is a Genotype or Phenotype to select for in the first place. ps. edit gender
- Kristine1975 11y agoI doubt it's genetic, since there is a long history of people choosing not to have children: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree#History
- brianwawok 11y agoThis is more reverse natural selection... i.e. the most intelligent career driven people seem much more likely to want to go kid free.
- Moshe_Silnorin 11y agoSo what will be selected for is intelligent people who explicitly value having children and people who are unable to follow the instructions on the back of the contraception packaging.
- puredemo 11y agoThat's the net effect of contraceptives in general. People with better future planning ability are the only ones who use birth control, by definition.
- fps 11y agoThere's no "reverse natural selection", the same as there's no "reverse evolution." If what you say is true (and I'm not certain that it is) then being intelligent and career driven is not a desirable trait for natural selection's purposes, and natural selection is working as expected.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- hyperchase 11y agoThere is no such thing as "reverse" natural selection. It's just that intelligence and being career driven are not a favorable trait for natural selection. It's working just fine.
- facepalm 11y agocitation needed (Marissa Mayer and Sheryl Sandberg come to mind as immediate counterexamples).
- TheOtherHobbes 11y agoActually there's a mountain of evidence that the more educated you are, the more likely you are to delay or avoid parenthood. Here's just one paper: http://www.jstor.org/stable/585126?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents http://www.jstor.org/stable/585126?seq=1#page_scan_tab_conte... Individual women who happen to be relatively well known have nothing useful to tell you about social trends.
- facepalm 11y agoI'm not convinced that implies a want to be kids free.
- vikiomega9 11y agoI think you meant to say _inversion_ of natural selection.
- mattthebaker 11y agoIts time for humanity to realize that genes are no longer the only replicator driving our evolution. Having evolved consciousness, we now have the ability to spread ideas, inventions, values, etc. -- memes if you will. This is why humanity has beat all other species, and what drives progress on a societal scale. Memes evolve much faster than genes. The intelligent career driven people are busy replicating memes -- inventions, discoveries, institutions, influence, etc. The best memes survive and evolve. Is it better for humanity to discover penicillin or preserve a single bloodline?
- Zikes 11y agoTechnically you could say the same of homosexuality, but that only seems to be growing.
- nsxwolf 11y agoNot sure why these people are getting so much attention lately. So you don't want children. Don't have children then. Who cares?
- Kristine1975 11y agoA lot of people care, as described in the article.
- doktrin 11y ago"Desperate" does seem like a bit strong of a word to describe a goal that is achievable with 0 effort.
- Kristine1975 11y agoNot zero: It is effort to argue with people that try to convince you to have children. And if they're e.g. family it's not always possible to avoid them.
- doktrin 11y ago"Desperate to not drink socially" "Desperate to not volunteer for military service" "Desperate to not eat meat" These are all things that to varying degrees (and varying by locale) run contrary to social expectations and will be met with external pressure. I still don't see anyone writing up the grandiose titles above with a straight face.
- Bedon292 11y agoI think the point of the article is that, while it should be achievable with 0 effort, in practice it is not. They are constantly having to justify themselves to others, which does take effort.
- dogma1138 11y agoConstantly having to justify yourself to others is called life, at least life in a society.
- vox_mollis 11y agoI used to be avowed "childfree" from age 19 through 30, irrationally fearful of losing my time and my "freedom" to parenthood. In hindsight, I was an insufferable fool. What people like the former me fail to realize is that burning your health and your years on the hedonic treadmill is its own kind of prison, and arguably far less "free" than choosing parenthood.
- balfirevic 11y agoI know that's not exactly what you wrote, but if you don't mind clarifying... Do you think these women are also being irrational and possibly insufferable fools?
- vox_mollis 11y agoI don't know them, I can only speak for me. But I do consider my former self a pretty typical member of the "childfree" community. So I don't consider it too far a stretch to label the typical person with the associated mindset in terms that I see myself. To RIMR's point above, I'm sure there are plenty who disavow children for reasons other than going racing on the hedonic treadmill.
- LanceH 11y agoWe only really know the answer to that after the fact. Even then, we only really know they aren't if they accidentally conceive and still regret it. It's not uncommon to know someone who was childfree for years and years, only do a complete reversal when they have children late in life. That said, it's one of those topics of conversation where I might just say (to myself), "I hope you're right." To them I'd say, "oh, cool" and drop it. It's really nobody else's business.
- shkkmo 11y agoEven if there are people making an irrational and foolish choice to remain childless (and I'm sure there are), there are certainly more people making an irrational and foolish choice to have a child. People just don't seem as comfortable calling out the later.
- cryoshon 11y agoIf people want to terminate their gene line which traces back to the genesis of life on this planet, I don't see why anyone should stop them or try to convince them otherwise. The entire point of a liberal society is to accept that what life is right for us is not the same as what life is right for another person.
- nsxwolf 11y agoStop them no - but why not try to convince? When did liberal society reject the notion of trying to persuade someone to adopt your point of view?
- RIMR 11y agoIt is impolite to criticize the life choices of another person, especially when those choices don't involve or affect you.
- vectorjohn 11y agoLets not pretend these choices don't affect other people. It affects everyone when someone does or does not decide to reproduce. It is meaningful.
- dogma1138 11y agoNot having children actually does effects you, our whole system is built on the fact that we'll produce new generations which will be larger and produce more capital to support us. So if people deciding enmasse not to have children at the appropriate age (this includes me btw) they are screwing things up for everyone. Also if we all were polite and politically correct we would still be living in the dark ages, it was impolite to say the least to criticize the church, it was impolite to talk about ending slavery, integration, human rights, women's rights, gay rights and every other social movement that made our society what it is today. Social changes can only be created when people act radically in direct opposition to the norms of society.
- 11y ago
- facepalm 11y agoAbout the alleged pressure on women to have kids: think about it another way, if somebody doesn't like you, why would they want you to have children? I think it's really nothing more than people who have experienced happiness with children want other people to not miss out on that happiness. Since a woman's parents usually have had children, they are among the intersection of people who hopefully have experienced happiness with children and like you.