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If you're stuck on Windows/.NET this is good. But the bigger question is WTF are you doing developing on Windows (unless they're games). They're making good

If you're stuck on Windows/.NET this is good. But the bigger question is WTF are you doing developing on Windows (unless they're games). They're making good progress open sourcing, and at some point it will have enough community worthwhile open libraries, support multiple platforms, but it still is a bad decision.

cwyers 11y ago
> But the bigger question is WTF are you doing developing on Windows (unless they're games). The market share of desktop users is, what, 94/4/2 between Windows, OS X and Linux? And there are use cases where native apps still beat web apps. So, shockingly, if you're developing apps for Windows users, you're developing... on Windows.
- easytiger 11y ago
  I assume he means on the server side. Most of us have the good luck to never need author a GUI, the hellhole of developer productivity that it is
  - copperx 11y ago
    You must be joking. Developing GUI apps is MUCH simpler than developing a backend with responsive HTML5/Javascript frontend.
    - easytiger 11y ago
      > HTML5/Javascript That's GUI development too
  - cwyers 11y ago
    ...why would you assume that? Are there enough server-side games that are Windows-specific for him to make that caveat if he meant server side development?
    - easytiger 11y ago
      > > But the bigger question is WTF are you doing developing on Windows (unless they're games). Are you saying the only software is games?
      - cwyers 11y ago
        No. I'm saying almost the opposite, that there's a LOT of software that isn't games, and some of it is client-side and some of it is server-side, and since he's explicitly excluding one and only one kind of client-side development, the most reasonable assumption is it's because he means to include all the other kinds of client-side development.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > I assume he means on the server side. Lots of enterprises are Windows shops. If you want to sell to those enterprises, you develop on Windows.
    - easytiger 11y ago
      What does that have to do with it?
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    StackOverflow is a well known big-example of a full server-side Microsoft-stack.
    - easytiger 11y ago
      The Eiffel Tower is exactly 300m tall. What was your point?
cmdkeen 11y ago
Because Visual Studio is a very powerful IDE I like using. Because I like writing statically typed code for both the server and client (props to Typescript). I grew up writing VBA and hating it. At university Java and Linux opened my eyes. But then I learned to be a professional developer on C# and ASP.Net MVC, and it is good.
- mpeg 11y ago
  Not only is VS the best IDE ever (and each version keeps getting better, with the new profilers / test runners, etc.) but the .NET vm is very powerful, and comes without a lot of the baggage of the JVM. I feel there is a certain distaste of .NET and c# among programmers (especially in the startup world) but I honestly don't understand it. I use and love dynamic languages like python, js, ruby... but when it comes to performance + happiness, or low level windows hacking[0], .NET is king. [0] I've recently been using c# for code injection and hooking third party libraries. Some of the performance drawbacks can be avoided by falling back to inline asm via FASM, since native code is easy to call from .NET and the productivity gains from being able to quickly prototype something are huge.
  - corysama 11y ago
    And if you love Python, Python Tools for Visual Studio is pretty friggin awesome --even if you are debugging python that is running on a Linux box. https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/features/python-vs.aspx https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/features/python-vs.aspx https://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS/releases/v2.2 https://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS/releases/v2.2

cwyers 11y ago

> But the bigger question is WTF are you doing developing on Windows (unless they're games). The market share of desktop users is, what, 94/4/2 between Windows, OS X and Linux? And there are use cases where native apps still beat web apps. So, shockingly, if you're developing apps for Windows users, you're developing... on Windows.

easytiger 11y ago
I assume he means on the server side. Most of us have the good luck to never need author a GUI, the hellhole of developer productivity that it is
- copperx 11y ago
  You must be joking. Developing GUI apps is MUCH simpler than developing a backend with responsive HTML5/Javascript frontend.
  - easytiger 11y ago
    > HTML5/Javascript That's GUI development too
- cwyers 11y ago
  ...why would you assume that? Are there enough server-side games that are Windows-specific for him to make that caveat if he meant server side development?
  - easytiger 11y ago
    > > But the bigger question is WTF are you doing developing on Windows (unless they're games). Are you saying the only software is games?
    - cwyers 11y ago
      No. I'm saying almost the opposite, that there's a LOT of software that isn't games, and some of it is client-side and some of it is server-side, and since he's explicitly excluding one and only one kind of client-side development, the most reasonable assumption is it's because he means to include all the other kinds of client-side development.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > I assume he means on the server side. Lots of enterprises are Windows shops. If you want to sell to those enterprises, you develop on Windows.
  - easytiger 11y ago
    What does that have to do with it?
- dragontamer 11y ago
  StackOverflow is a well known big-example of a full server-side Microsoft-stack.
  - easytiger 11y ago
    The Eiffel Tower is exactly 300m tall. What was your point?

cmdkeen 11y ago

Because Visual Studio is a very powerful IDE I like using. Because I like writing statically typed code for both the server and client (props to Typescript). I grew up writing VBA and hating it. At university Java and Linux opened my eyes. But then I learned to be a professional developer on C# and ASP.Net MVC, and it is good.

mpeg 11y ago
Not only is VS the best IDE ever (and each version keeps getting better, with the new profilers / test runners, etc.) but the .NET vm is very powerful, and comes without a lot of the baggage of the JVM. I feel there is a certain distaste of .NET and c# among programmers (especially in the startup world) but I honestly don't understand it. I use and love dynamic languages like python, js, ruby... but when it comes to performance + happiness, or low level windows hacking[0], .NET is king. [0] I've recently been using c# for code injection and hooking third party libraries. Some of the performance drawbacks can be avoided by falling back to inline asm via FASM, since native code is easy to call from .NET and the productivity gains from being able to quickly prototype something are huge.
- corysama 11y ago
  And if you love Python, Python Tools for Visual Studio is pretty friggin awesome --even if you are debugging python that is running on a Linux box. https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/features/python-vs.aspx https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/features/python-vs.aspx https://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS/releases/v2.2 https://github.com/Microsoft/PTVS/releases/v2.2