5 ms·

A Brief History of Chat Services [pdf]

55 points by Tehnix 11y ago

Tehnix 11y ago
With the recent discussion of FastMail shutting down their XMPP chat server[0], I thought it'd be interesting to share the history of chat services that sameroom.io just sent out in an email. Doing a ctrl-f/cmd-f for "XMPP" on the site only shows 6 matches, which says something about the lack of adoption of the standard. Not to imply causation through correlation, but it would indicate that the XMPP standard is lacking, seeing as everyone creates their own/uses another standard instead. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572597
- sdegutis 11y ago
  A few years ago, I tried and tried and tried to create my own native GUI chat client for Google Chat that used XMPP. It was dang near impossible. I don't know if it was because I was a terrible programmer or because the protocol was way too complex or because good documentation was just not there, or maybe a little of all of them. Either way, I never finished that app.
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    It's not just you: XMPP sucks. Just another example of Worse is Better meme where market is all over what they should've avoided instead of simpler, efficient, and effective alternatives. http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP Note: Some info is probably dated by now but the issues will be clear. I'm guessing, but unsure, that fixing some probably added complexity to XMPP. That would reinforce other points that focus on that problem.
frik 11y ago
Nice graph. I found a small error, the entry about Microsoft Lync is wrong. It started as Microsoft NetMeeting [1] & Windows Messenger [2] => Microsoft Office Communicator [3] => Microsoft Lync [3] => Microsoft Skype (Business) [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netmeeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netmeeting [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Messenger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Messenger [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Lync https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Lync
- rekoros 11y ago
  Thanks for this! We will update the graph. The graph is open source, btw, if you understand .ai (I don't): https://github.com/sameroom/history-of-chat https://github.com/sameroom/history-of-chat
tonymarks 11y ago
Don't see FireChat on here, any reason why?
- rekoros 11y ago
  FireChat seems to be an app, not a service. We only listed services, so things like Trillian, Pigin, etc were excluded.
davidw 11y ago
Have been using IRC happily for more than 20 years. Still works fine!
dorfsmay 11y ago
This is nice, but isn't SIP/Simple missing from there? Isn't Lync based on SIP?
Syrup-tan 11y ago
What about Discord[0]? I believe it uses it's own protocol, however there are already many unofficial API clients. IRC-esque text chat, with Mumble-esque voice chat, with the best UX I've seen yet in a chat program[1] [0] https://discord.gg/ https://discord.gg/ [1] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/115226319603630086/116232716655001608/Screen_Shot_2015-11-17_at_9.46.07_AM.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/115226319603630086/11... Edit: s/seen ever/seen yet/, discord link
- jlarky2012 11y ago
  I'm afraid it has nothing to do with Mumble, since it uses webrtc for voice calls
  - Syrup-tan 11y ago
    I meant from a purely feature perspective.
- rekoros 11y ago
  I don't know why we've not added Discord -- we've known about it for a long time. Will add!
ahailes 11y ago
Not sure what the qualifications for "dead" are, but I know of several companies that still use Zulip, and it was recently open-sourced by Dropbox.
- rekoros 11y ago
  My understanding is Zulip can now be only self-hosted, correct? If that's the case, it's disqualified from our criteria (cloud-based services). (Please correct me if I'm wrong and we'll fix the graph) We decided to count big IRC networks as "cloud-based services", because basically that's what they are.
mwcremer 11y ago
What about BITNET Relay? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET_Relay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET_Relay
- rekoros 11y ago
  Didn't know about it - thanks! Will add.
pwenzel 11y ago
Can't appease everyone. What about Hotline? http://www.macworld.com/article/2031816/hotline-revisited.html http://www.macworld.com/article/2031816/hotline-revisited.ht...
- rekoros 11y ago
  Nice. Will add.
stcredzero 11y ago
What about Excalibur/XYZ? That was a home-grown chat running on Dartmouth mainframe computers in the 80's/early 90's. We users of XYZ were considered degenerates by the campus community at large, until a MacOS GUI chat app gained widespread popularity. Does anyone remember what that was called? I think it came with Blitzmail, which was the home grown email GUI on MacOS.
pbreit 11y ago
Probably should add SMS from mid-80s to present. It's the biggest, after all.
hammerandtongs 11y ago
Did not see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SILC_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SILC_(protocol) or chatsecure.org or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tox_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tox_(protocol) or matrix.org Very nice work though and valuable for many reasons, thank you.
dethos 11y ago
We can see a trend since 2006, with the vast majority of the services implementing their own protocol.
joezydeco 11y ago
CompuServe CB Simulator (1980)? Minitel (1981)? I'm on the fence if you should include the Telegraph (1844).
Gigablah 11y ago
Besides IRC, I recall using chat interfaces that were created as features on top of an app with an entirely different purpose, but ended up being widely used for social chat anyway. WestWood Chat - originally intended for organizing C&C: Red Alert multiplayer games DC++ - filesharing

55 points by Tehnix 11y ago

With the recent discussion of FastMail shutting down their XMPP chat server[0], I thought it'd be interesting to share the history of chat services that sameroom.io just sent out in an email. Doing a ctrl-f/cmd-f for "XMPP" on the site only shows 6 matches, which says something about the lack of adoption of the standard. Not to imply causation through correlation, but it would indicate that the XMPP standard is lacking, seeing as everyone creates their own/uses another standard instead. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10572597

sdegutis 11y ago
A few years ago, I tried and tried and tried to create my own native GUI chat client for Google Chat that used XMPP. It was dang near impossible. I don't know if it was because I was a terrible programmer or because the protocol was way too complex or because good documentation was just not there, or maybe a little of all of them. Either way, I never finished that app.
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  It's not just you: XMPP sucks. Just another example of Worse is Better meme where market is all over what they should've avoided instead of simpler, efficient, and effective alternatives. http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP Note: Some info is probably dated by now but the issues will be clear. I'm guessing, but unsure, that fixing some probably added complexity to XMPP. That would reinforce other points that focus on that problem.

frik 11y ago

Nice graph. I found a small error, the entry about Microsoft Lync is wrong. It started as Microsoft NetMeeting [1] & Windows Messenger [2] => Microsoft Office Communicator [3] => Microsoft Lync [3] => Microsoft Skype (Business) [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netmeeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netmeeting [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Messenger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Messenger [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Lync https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Lync

rekoros 11y ago
Thanks for this! We will update the graph. The graph is open source, btw, if you understand .ai (I don't): https://github.com/sameroom/history-of-chat https://github.com/sameroom/history-of-chat

tonymarks 11y ago

Don't see FireChat on here, any reason why?

rekoros 11y ago
FireChat seems to be an app, not a service. We only listed services, so things like Trillian, Pigin, etc were excluded.

davidw 11y ago

Have been using IRC happily for more than 20 years. Still works fine!

dorfsmay 11y ago

This is nice, but isn't SIP/Simple missing from there? Isn't Lync based on SIP?

Syrup-tan 11y ago

What about Discord[0]? I believe it uses it's own protocol, however there are already many unofficial API clients. IRC-esque text chat, with Mumble-esque voice chat, with the best UX I've seen yet in a chat program[1] [0] https://discord.gg/ https://discord.gg/ [1] https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/115226319603630086/116232716655001608/Screen_Shot_2015-11-17_at_9.46.07_AM.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/115226319603630086/11... Edit: s/seen ever/seen yet/, discord link

jlarky2012 11y ago
I'm afraid it has nothing to do with Mumble, since it uses webrtc for voice calls
- Syrup-tan 11y ago
  I meant from a purely feature perspective.
rekoros 11y ago
I don't know why we've not added Discord -- we've known about it for a long time. Will add!

ahailes 11y ago

Not sure what the qualifications for "dead" are, but I know of several companies that still use Zulip, and it was recently open-sourced by Dropbox.

rekoros 11y ago
My understanding is Zulip can now be only self-hosted, correct? If that's the case, it's disqualified from our criteria (cloud-based services). (Please correct me if I'm wrong and we'll fix the graph) We decided to count big IRC networks as "cloud-based services", because basically that's what they are.

mwcremer 11y ago

What about BITNET Relay? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET_Relay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BITNET_Relay

rekoros 11y ago
Didn't know about it - thanks! Will add.

pwenzel 11y ago

Can't appease everyone. What about Hotline? http://www.macworld.com/article/2031816/hotline-revisited.html http://www.macworld.com/article/2031816/hotline-revisited.ht...

rekoros 11y ago
Nice. Will add.

stcredzero 11y ago

What about Excalibur/XYZ? That was a home-grown chat running on Dartmouth mainframe computers in the 80's/early 90's. We users of XYZ were considered degenerates by the campus community at large, until a MacOS GUI chat app gained widespread popularity. Does anyone remember what that was called? I think it came with Blitzmail, which was the home grown email GUI on MacOS.

pbreit 11y ago

Probably should add SMS from mid-80s to present. It's the biggest, after all.

hammerandtongs 11y ago

Did not see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SILC_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SILC_(protocol) or chatsecure.org or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tox_(protocol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tox_(protocol) or matrix.org Very nice work though and valuable for many reasons, thank you.

dethos 11y ago

We can see a trend since 2006, with the vast majority of the services implementing their own protocol.

joezydeco 11y ago

CompuServe CB Simulator (1980)? Minitel (1981)? I'm on the fence if you should include the Telegraph (1844).

Gigablah 11y ago

Besides IRC, I recall using chat interfaces that were created as features on top of an app with an entirely different purpose, but ended up being widely used for social chat anyway. WestWood Chat - originally intended for organizing C&C: Red Alert multiplayer games DC++ - filesharing