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State of emergency in France
- fasterthanlime 11y agoHey HN, I'm maintaining this gist. Feel free to propose better translations in the gist comments or right here, some of it could definitely use some improvement. If you have any other questions, I'll try to point you to reliable sources. Thanks for your interest in what happens to our country!
- ilaksh 11y agohttp://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/14/paris-attack-witness-he-was-dressed-in-black-professional-shooting-and-killing http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/14/paris-attack-wi...
- dbcooper 11y agoIs a curfew in place? I know that all universities and research institutes are closed on Saturday.[1] Sucks if you have cells to maintain. It would be awfully sad if people can't go out and drink and eat freely in one of the great European cities. If I was still in Paris I'd want to be having a good, relaxed time with my friends tonight. [1]Bonjour, Sur décision de la Mairie de Paris et du Rectorat, toutes les écoles et établissements académiques seront fermés le samedi 14/11/15.
- tgb 11y agoI've never seen a university closure that didn't still require certain essential employees, like those caring for animals (and presumably cells?), to work. Can someone confirm whether that is the case here?
- dbcooper 11y agoI've contacted colleagues at a biotech startup that has lab space in my building. Hope they don't have any important experiments ruined.
- Thriptic 11y agoUniversity closures are typically not tightly enforced. Grad students and post docs aren't considered essential personell, but if they have cells to maintain they will probably come in regardless. We had several closures due to weather last year, and my lab mates doing cell culture still came in and replaced media as needed.
- fnordfnordfnord 11y agoI have, but it was for a natural disaster. I was able to get to my lab by crafting a spell at the authorities using the words "radiation" and "explosive gases".
- corin_ 11y agoThe curfew was put into place last night, the first time it has happened since 1944 apparently, but it was lifted again by this morning. It's still recommended to not go outside unless you have to, but not forbidden. (Very recently a car reportedly with four heavily armed people in it broke through a police barrier, driving towards Paris - nobody knows if directly connected yet..) It's still quite a tense atmosphere here.
- dbcooper 11y agoThanks for clarifying that.
- hk__2 11y agoThis is untrue, there’s no curfew in Paris. It’s not forbidden to go out and it wasn’t last night.
- corin_ 11y agoI can't find good sources in French press (though my French isn't great), but it was reported by local TV news last night, and for example some English press still has it like this Telegraph blog [1] which says "Authorities warned that "accomplices" were likely to be still at large in the city, that was placed under a curfew for the first time since the Nazi occupation in 1944." It could well be that it was misinformation, there was plenty of that last night, but for sure the state of national emergency that has been declared does mean that they can inflict a curfew if they want. Anyway, I just went to the main road for the first time now and it's quieter than a normal Saturday but still fairly busy. [1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995541/Paris-shootings-terrorist-attack-french-victims-latest-news.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1199...
- Spare_account 11y agoRe: armed men in a car It took a while to find a source that wasn't the Daily Mail http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-police-tracking-black-car-carrying-four-armed-people-after-terror-attacks-a6734561.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-police-...
- ilaksh 11y agoThis is a false-flag attack designed to motivate moving western operations in Syria from covert to overt. There are already Russians and Chinese in Syria so this could literally kick of WWIII if no one stops it. Unfortunately the media is so well controlled that the ubiquitous war propaganda is generally not questioned. As demonstrated by the instant downvote of my comment, media that isn't explicitly controlled is generally self-censored to protect the mythical reality supporting the war effort.
- jacquesm 11y agoI don't think your interpretation of the downvotes is correct.
- gizi 11y agoI cannot see the original comment, because it appears as [flagged], but I can imagine that it is quite non-mainstream. I do not see why it would need to be censored. It probably makes sense in one way or the other, without therefore being particularly popular. But then again, comments that are mainstream and popular are utterly useless and usually very unintelligent. It also shows why "voting" does not work. It will always turn into a dictatorship of the mediocre average.
- DanBC 11y ago> I cannot see the original comment, because it appears as [flagged], but I can imagine You should probably read the comment before you talk about it. To read [dead] comments you go to your profile, and set the [showdead] toggle.
- reptation 11y agoThe news media was suggesting that France and European internal border security has not been so rigorous.
- corin_ 11y agoThat's by design not mistake. Within the Schengen Area borders are pretty much left open. Even flying you might be asked for ID by the airline but won't be by border control. If you drive from France to, say, Belgium, you'll just drive past a "Welcome to Belgium" sign.
- Luker88 11y agoDidn't France approve sweeping surveillance laws back in July? And they even were on high alert due to international talks happening in Paris... Italy and Spain also stopped terrorist cells this month, but they don't seem to have such laws... Guess they need more unwarranted power, uh?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- dogma1138 11y agoCould both of you let the bodies cool down before you start rambling about what they might and might not do? There is no "prime cause" that is easy to work on, the situation is much more complicated than terrorism is the outcome of US/Western US policy. So unless your solution for the "prime cause" is glassing the middle east a large portion of asia and africa there won't be just one simple solution. Not to mention that working on the "prime cause" in the eyes of such people is justification enough there have been just as many attacks against western targets for building schools as for blowing them up.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jacquesm 11y ago> So unless your solution for the "prime cause" is glassing the middle east a large portion of asia and africa there won't be just one simple solution. And even that won't work since our societies have become quite intermingled.
- codedokode 11y agoMaybe I shouldn't write this but the prime cause is european war against ISIS. These people are the victims of war. So the best solution is to stop it, withdraw european armies from arabian countries, and stop welcoming refugees. Let them fight among themselves.
- JackuB 11y agoThis is a HN frontpage material only becuase it's on GitHub?
- fabulist 11y agoIt is interesting information of a technical nature relevant to an important current event. That it is distributed in a manner HN finds quite palatable is icing.
- SeanDav 11y agoIt is on the front-page of HN because sufficient HN members found it interesting enough to upvote. If you visit Github, I am sure you will find quite a few stories that have not made the front page of HN.
- spoiledtechie 11y agoThis should have been placed in politics.stackexchange.com. This isn't truly searchable by google or Bing and stack exchange is. Can someone please move this to the better alternative?
- fasterthanlime 11y agoseems searchable enough: http://i.imgur.com/VwLGFxG.png http://i.imgur.com/VwLGFxG.png
- an0nym1ty 11y agoThis is completely tangential to the discussion of this thread, but so much of google search is forecasting based on user's search history these days it's hard to tell if it's just biased towards HN because we all visit it.
- fasterthanlime 11y agoyup, that's why I always check these things in incognito mode. Google also has this 'hide private results' setting that I keep checked, to avoid bias (when DDG is not enough, anyway): http://i.imgur.com/2v1FV8n.png http://i.imgur.com/2v1FV8n.png it's not first in the results anymore, btw — at the time of this comment, the top three spots are time.com, france24.com and news.yahoo.com
- fabulist 11y agoIf anyone else thinks to check if it's only the top result in fasterthanlime's filter bubble, it is also the top result on Google through search.disconnect.me.
- gizi 11y agoA great part of the native French has always been openly or covertly racist towards the North African immigrants in France. I am not surprised by the presence of feelings of hatred amongst the North Africans. This event will make the native French even more racist and the North Africans even more filled with hate. Then, you also have the aspect of religion. The native French like to make derogatory remarks about Islam, while the Muslims may badly overreact. As outsiders, we can only watch how all of this will unfold ...
- nothrabannosir 11y agoThe native French like to make derogatory remarks about Islam, while the Muslims may badly overreact. It is a bit flippant to put those two so close. The point is not who is right and who is wrong, he said she said---the point is that some people went objectively too far. We draw the line at physical violence. Unless, of course, you actually believe that making derogatory remarks about Islam is comparable to what happened. It's not exactly clear from your comment; do you?
- shkkmo 11y agoI didn't see any attempt at comparison, I'm not sure where you are getting that. I think you might take a moment and asses your response. The point being made was just that this is a bad cycle. Responding to events like this with increased hatred and racism will not lead to a reduction of tensions in France. As you said, the point is not who is right and who is wrong. The point is to find a way to end the violence. Hatred won't do it (unless you can find a 3rd part to unite in hatred of :).
- _delirium 11y agoYes, ISIS has even publicly stated that's one of their strategies, to polarize Europe so that Muslims can no longer live in the "gray zone" of being both Muslims and Europeans, a situation ISIS views as a threat to "true" Islam.
- Thaxll 11y ago
- programmernews3 11y agoMulticulturalism has failed. One of the gunmen (or should I say gun-people for the feminists) landed in Greece as a "refugee". https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst/status/665558503528882176 https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst/status/665558503528882176
- bayesianhorse 11y agoMono-culturalism has failed for never having existed in the first place!
- oneeyedpigeon 11y agoExcept that multiculturalism is pretty much the antithesis of the French system. But maybe you meant something else like "foreigners living where they don't belong", right?
- dkns 11y agoThis has nothing to do with multiculturalism. Radical Islam is the issue here, not multiculturalism.
- hackuser 11y agoI suppose we can look forward to the next Franco-German war. Also, I want all the Catholics/Muslims/Protestants/Jews/Hindus/Agnostics/Atheists out of my town and out of my workplace. Perhaps corporate America and SV can adopt a WASP-only policy. [1] Millions of innocent, terrorized, poverty-stricken refugees and one commits a crime - by all logic, the problem is refugees. [1] To leave no doubt, this is sarcasm. I do not mean it; it's stated as a satire of the absurdity of such thinking.
- dang 11y agoPlease stop posting ideological boilerplate to HN. That's the antithesis of what this site is for: it doesn't gratify intellectual curiosity, it merely inflames pre-existing opinions and riles everybody up. You've posted dozens of comments in the genre, and it's time to stop. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10565736 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10565736 and marked it off-topic.
- micron7 11y agoI would very much like to see what people here think of the arguments presented here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2iBZkODgxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2iBZkODgxA
- gotchange 11y agoTime for Europe to really take care of its backyard in the MENA. Its policy of supporting despots and tyrants, the latest of which was Sisi of Egypt ,to contain the radicals and terrorists, that they engender with their oppressive policies on an industrial scale, has to change course soon. Time for the European leaders to have some faith in the people of the region that they would make a better future for themselves (Tunisia as an example) and not fall victim to perpetual and vicious cycle of violence as they fear or have led to believe. I know that Europeans are in a very precarious situation between a rock and a hard place where they know that tyrants are using them and holding the security of their southern border as hostage and that they have to turn a blind eye to their sytemic repression and prosecution of opposition in exchange of not having to worry about taking considerable and resource draining measures to secure the borders but on the other hand these very tyrants have set domestic policies and failing economic programs that are breeding more and more of these terrorists and desperate people by the day that they are no longer can contain and put on leash i.e. increase in aggregate numbers and the hit ratio for terrorists, not to mention that this plays in the tyrants' hands increasing the leverage they have worsening the awful even more. Like with the movement to decriminalize/legalize marijuana in the west, it's time for Europeans to exert more influence to legalize the aspirations and legitimate demands of people in the MENA region for living in a true democracy and free society and not be intimidated by the threats of tyrants and despots. Time to operate on this ever-swelling cyst in the region before it explodes in everyone's face and infect everything that it touches. I know that it will be very messy and painful esp in the beginning but as we say here and I paraphrase "Going through pain for an hour is better than having it every hour" Help us to help you.
- jarek-foksa 11y agoI'm not really into the geopolitics and recent news, but what's wrong with this plan? Hopefully the future European governments will be up to something along those lines rather than balkanization followed by the final solution. 1. Move all illegal migrants to a heavily guarded area akin to the Gaza Strip. All EU members would pay for building and maintaining the camps. Base the camps in a non-EU country so that drastic measures could be taken in case situation gets out of control. 2. Don't grant any new citizenships to legal migrants from high-risk countries, instead issue permanent residence permits and then deport anybody suspected of radicalization. 3. Perform full-scale military intervention in the Middle East to restore the old order. Ideally make deal with Russians and Syrian government to take care of the most dirty tasks. 4. Move migrants back to their homeland.
- hackuser 11y agoRemember the goal of terrorism is to terrorize you. It's to get the maximum effect of very limited resources; right now 8 people have around a billion (or more) panicked. Wow. If they are scaring you - especially into a state of conflict - they've won. There were only 8 of them. They can't really threaten you. ISIS wants irreconcileable division and conflict between people who are Muslim and others. Are you giving it to them - and because of 8 people? The real conflict should be between peace-loving people and violent nutcases like ISIS - then our enemy is vastly outnumbered. France's response should be to counter ISIS' goals, and heal divisions between people of different religions. Eliminate their ban on clothing worn by Muslims, accept more refugees; nothing would be more crushing to ISIS than people of all faiths living peacefully, happily side-by-side, as friends, neighbors, and families.
- codedokode 11y ago> nothing would be more crushing to ISIS than people of all faiths living peacefully, happily side-by-side, as friends, neighbors, and families. People living in Syria and Iraq have their cities bombed by western armies. People in Lybia saw it earlier. Maybe they lost their friends or relatives in a war. Sorry but your naive words about peaceful living would sound like a bullshit to them.
- hackuser 11y ago> your naive words about peaceful living would sound like a bullshit to them I understand the reasoning (but please dial back the tone), but I think it's wrong: First, peace is often made by those same people who survive war and other horrors. The great modern institutions of international peace were built by the survivors of WWII (and WWI before it), people who saw far more and were far less naive than you or me. The foundations of the European Union were established by the same survivors, whose friends and relative were killed and brutalized by other EU members. Martin Luther King and his followers were brutalized by their white neighbors, yet they preached peace. Perhaps it's the people who have seen war who feel the greatest need for peace and understand what it takes. Second, do you have any basis for speaking for the people in Syria and Iraq? Research? Do you live there?