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I say this very often: The MBA (who has no other expertise) is capitalism's answer to the Soviet "apparatchik." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparatchik http
by api 11y ago
I say this very often:
The MBA (who has no other expertise) is capitalism's answer to the Soviet "apparatchik."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparatchik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparatchik
"Management" is a secondary skill in the sense that it only makes any sense if one also has a primary skill. An engineer might learn to manage and thus become an engineering manager. A baker might learn to manage and might manage a baking company or a restaurant/cafe. But only knowing "management" alone is absurd and vapid. I truly cannot comprehend how anyone could purport to manage something they do not understand at the ground level.
To some extent I blame academia for pushing the idea that one can get an MBA and manage things without understanding what one is managing.
Programming is particularly bad. There are no physical analogies for it. It's so alien to ordinary human experience that asking someone with no experience in it to manage it is like asking a blind person to direct a silent film. Actually the latter is far more likely to be successful. I can't actually think of an analogy right now that suitably captures just how inept a non-developer is at managing developers.
From the link:
"Members of the "apparat" were frequently transferred between different areas of responsibility, usually with little or no actual training for their new areas of responsibility. Thus, the term apparatchik, or "agent of the apparatus" was usually the best possible description of the person's profession and occupation."
"It is often considered a derogatory term, with negative connotations in terms of the quality, competence, and attitude of a person thus described."
- jackgavigan 11y ago> The MBA (who has no other expertise) is capitalism's answer to the Soviet "apparatchik." I'm an MBA. Are you suggesting that I have no other expertise? Do you think that we undergo some sort of specialised lobotomy at business school to remove the knowledge and experience we accumulated before enroling in business school, and to prevent us from learning anything thereafter?
- cowardlydragon 11y agoWell, we know ethics are lobotomized. I'm not specifically denigating you, more of an observation of the overall class.
- api 11y agoI think you slightly misread what I meant. I was referring to those who only get an MBA and then think they can manage anything even if they have no other expertise. Maybe your mileage has varied, but I've never seen anything but disasters in the real world when that happens. You can't manage something you don't understand.
- jackgavigan 11y agoBy placing "who has no other expertise" in paranthese, it reads like a general assertion about "the MBA", rather than a qualifier intended to indicate that it is referring to a subset of MBAs. I'll allow it this time. But I'm keeping my eye on you. ;-)
- afarrell 11y ago> To some extent I blame academia for pushing the idea that one can get an MBA and manage things without understanding what one is managing. Where is this pushed? The advice I've seen is "go work in industry for a few years and get practical experience before getting an MBA." The ads on the subway for MBA programs that I've seen are usually in the terms you describe of going from a baker to manager of a bakery.
- rhino369 11y agoMBAs as an empty suit who manages what they don't understand is as much of an useless stereotype as programmer as a code monkey who just creates what you tell him to. You have the same ignorance about them that you accuse them of having about you. I also don't believe programming is as alien as you think it is. I will grant you that most of the diploma mill MBA programs are worthless. But the MBA's going to work in F500 companies aren't just idiots.
- e12e 11y ago> I will grant you that most of the diploma mill MBA programs are worthless. But the MBA's going to work in F500 companies aren't just idiots. Are you saying that there are some great MBA programs, that will produce an MBA that adds value without other experience, or are you saying that the MBAs going to work in F500 companies have experience beyond an MBA diploma? If it's the latter, isn't that pretty much what parent claimed? If it's the former, is that because those MBA programs are cross-disciplinary with real project work loads?
- rhino369 11y agoI meant the former, but the later is also true. Though even great the MBA programs only take students with good work experience. However, it's not impossible to change industries--e.x. bankers going into consulting. It's hard to tell how much value the MBA actually adds. It's hard to tell if they are just selecting the best and brightest, or if they actually teach something worthwhile. I suspect it's a mixture of both. I took a couple MBA courses at Kellogg when I was at Northwestern in another grad program. The ones I took weren't real project work loads, but the courses delved into case studies of what companies did wrong and right during critical points in their history. Students would use real world experiences from their past to explain things. I took an IP asset management class with one of guys who sued Zuckerberg for allegedly ripping off HarvardConnect to make Facebook. Unfortunately he never talked about it. I was very curious. Another large value of an elite MBA is the networking. How many billions of VC bucks have been dolled out to MBA grads at Stanford by people they met there? In fact, the whole idea of an MBA program is somewhat similar to what YCombinator does.