5 ms·

I don't -want- to be negative, but how relevant is this (* nix only, runs on single machine) in a world ruled by browsers? My gut feeling says the Access world

I don't -want- to be negative, but how relevant is this (* nix only, runs on single machine) in a world ruled by browsers? My gut feeling says the Access world is dying rapidly, and if that is true, a * nix version playing catch-up does not have a bright future.

taspeotis 11y ago
I don't know about "dying rapidly". Access seems to be in maintenance mode since 2010 when they added web application support. It's going to be dying slowly as end users migrate to other technologies (proprietary applications and the like). It's a bit clunky but you can run Access applications in a browser [1]. So Access is no longer synonymous with "shitty little data entry desktop application". [1] http://www.brighthub.com/computing/windows-platform/articles/128126.aspx http://www.brighthub.com/computing/windows-platform/articles...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jtwaleson 11y ago
  You're probably right. I think that the number of new applications created with Access is decreasing pretty fast, but the number of active existing applications will decline slowly.
- nealmydataorg 11y ago
  If it is legacy application built on Access and does not require much maintenance then it can continue running. If it requires switching to other platform then it requires effort (1)to find new platform (2)migration to new platform and results in dying slowly.
- jstaniek 11y ago
  Regarding Access-type of apps: IMHO they are as needed as spreadsheets, just less frequently. Like cars for 6 person families are needed too even if for cars for 4 are more popular. It's not complaining but: if the percentage of people using such apps isn't increasing this is maybe also because of average level of technical education among computer users decreasing. Average user wouldn't operate at this level of specialization. Even scientists... those I know don't reject using simple spreadsheets risking numeric inaccuracies. Weak and prototype tools become the standard for them. So simple spreadsheet apps (excel-like) that got very feature-laden over the years (statistical stuff, etc.) that clearly introduce on a concept of a strict matrix structure are very popular and they don't get replaced by web interfaces. Conversely, the web interfaces try to emulate the original UX with more or less success (Google Sheets, MS Office online). Simplistic explanation of Access type of apps could be that they introduce data types and more on top of what's know in spreadsheets. There's always market for that but the demand needs to be realized (created?). Ideally the database type of apps could learn some agility from the spreadsheets world. Newer MS Accesses offer implicit adding of fields in a 'spreadsheet' way in the data view and altering form/report design in the data view as well. I'd like to have that in Kexi too. Maybe even the app should welcome the user with an empty sheet of cells by default? We have a place for discussions on the forums https://forum.kde.org/kexi https://forum.kde.org/kexi and also mailing lists if someone is interested.
digi_owl 11y ago
> I don't -want- to be negative, but how relevant is this (* nix only, runs on single machine) in a world ruled by browsers? Ruled by what now? Sounds like a HN pipe dream.
- jtwaleson 11y ago
  Sure, I'm biased. Genuinely curious, do you know many applications being created in Access (or Kexi for that matter)? I haven't seen a new Access app in years.
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    Nope, not my area. But then the initial statement seemed more general.
fsavard2 11y ago
Actually, genuinely curious here, does anyone know of a solid (popular) equivalent of MS Access, but web-based? The feature I'd put emphasis on is rapid point-and-click form creation, not the database and tables part (for that of course there are plenty). I've developped a few web applications and forms along the years, but never could I get something together as quick as I did when I decided to try MS Access, for a prototype app. E.g. I've used Django, yes I can create forms pretty quick, but with Access with _no programming_ and 2-3 hours of familiarization I could put up forms with create/edit/delete functionality in something like 30 minutes, along with the underlying schema. I haven't touched it since I created that prototype, but I was left wondering what's the equivalent in the webapp world, for the basic CRUD use-case.
- mdda 11y ago
  It's proprietary, but has a long history as an MS-Access (and other DBs) app maker : http://www.alphasoftware.com/ms-access-mobile.asp http://www.alphasoftware.com/ms-access-mobile.asp
  - fsavard2 11y ago
    Thanks for the pointer. I searched a bit at the time (2 years ago) and found a few platforms for rapid app development. I guess I didn't search hard enough, or I simply gave up because there was no obvious choice, like MS Access used to be. The person I developed the prototype for was also very wary of smaller platforms due to lock-in, risk of the company going bust, etc. But Alpha Anywhere seems to have a long history and some traction, that's good to know.
- jtwaleson 11y ago
  Mendix is one such tool (or platform as it also includes a Cloud offering for hosting the applications). It has rapid application development for web/mobile apps. At its core, it has data schema creation, form building and visual application logic modelling. This is all included in one IDE which allows for integrity checks across the board (forms, logic and database). Competitors include OutSystems, Kony, etc. It is proprietary and mostly focused on large companies. Full disclosure: I work for Mendix

taspeotis 11y ago

I don't know about "dying rapidly". Access seems to be in maintenance mode since 2010 when they added web application support. It's going to be dying slowly as end users migrate to other technologies (proprietary applications and the like). It's a bit clunky but you can run Access applications in a browser [1]. So Access is no longer synonymous with "shitty little data entry desktop application". [1] http://www.brighthub.com/computing/windows-platform/articles/128126.aspx http://www.brighthub.com/computing/windows-platform/articles...

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jtwaleson 11y ago
You're probably right. I think that the number of new applications created with Access is decreasing pretty fast, but the number of active existing applications will decline slowly.
nealmydataorg 11y ago
If it is legacy application built on Access and does not require much maintenance then it can continue running. If it requires switching to other platform then it requires effort (1)to find new platform (2)migration to new platform and results in dying slowly.
jstaniek 11y ago
Regarding Access-type of apps: IMHO they are as needed as spreadsheets, just less frequently. Like cars for 6 person families are needed too even if for cars for 4 are more popular. It's not complaining but: if the percentage of people using such apps isn't increasing this is maybe also because of average level of technical education among computer users decreasing. Average user wouldn't operate at this level of specialization. Even scientists... those I know don't reject using simple spreadsheets risking numeric inaccuracies. Weak and prototype tools become the standard for them. So simple spreadsheet apps (excel-like) that got very feature-laden over the years (statistical stuff, etc.) that clearly introduce on a concept of a strict matrix structure are very popular and they don't get replaced by web interfaces. Conversely, the web interfaces try to emulate the original UX with more or less success (Google Sheets, MS Office online). Simplistic explanation of Access type of apps could be that they introduce data types and more on top of what's know in spreadsheets. There's always market for that but the demand needs to be realized (created?). Ideally the database type of apps could learn some agility from the spreadsheets world. Newer MS Accesses offer implicit adding of fields in a 'spreadsheet' way in the data view and altering form/report design in the data view as well. I'd like to have that in Kexi too. Maybe even the app should welcome the user with an empty sheet of cells by default? We have a place for discussions on the forums https://forum.kde.org/kexi https://forum.kde.org/kexi and also mailing lists if someone is interested.

digi_owl 11y ago

> I don't -want- to be negative, but how relevant is this (* nix only, runs on single machine) in a world ruled by browsers? Ruled by what now? Sounds like a HN pipe dream.

jtwaleson 11y ago
Sure, I'm biased. Genuinely curious, do you know many applications being created in Access (or Kexi for that matter)? I haven't seen a new Access app in years.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  Nope, not my area. But then the initial statement seemed more general.

fsavard2 11y ago

Actually, genuinely curious here, does anyone know of a solid (popular) equivalent of MS Access, but web-based? The feature I'd put emphasis on is rapid point-and-click form creation, not the database and tables part (for that of course there are plenty). I've developped a few web applications and forms along the years, but never could I get something together as quick as I did when I decided to try MS Access, for a prototype app. E.g. I've used Django, yes I can create forms pretty quick, but with Access with _no programming_ and 2-3 hours of familiarization I could put up forms with create/edit/delete functionality in something like 30 minutes, along with the underlying schema. I haven't touched it since I created that prototype, but I was left wondering what's the equivalent in the webapp world, for the basic CRUD use-case.

mdda 11y ago
It's proprietary, but has a long history as an MS-Access (and other DBs) app maker : http://www.alphasoftware.com/ms-access-mobile.asp http://www.alphasoftware.com/ms-access-mobile.asp
- fsavard2 11y ago
  Thanks for the pointer. I searched a bit at the time (2 years ago) and found a few platforms for rapid app development. I guess I didn't search hard enough, or I simply gave up because there was no obvious choice, like MS Access used to be. The person I developed the prototype for was also very wary of smaller platforms due to lock-in, risk of the company going bust, etc. But Alpha Anywhere seems to have a long history and some traction, that's good to know.
jtwaleson 11y ago
Mendix is one such tool (or platform as it also includes a Cloud offering for hosting the applications). It has rapid application development for web/mobile apps. At its core, it has data schema creation, form building and visual application logic modelling. This is all included in one IDE which allows for integrity checks across the board (forms, logic and database). Competitors include OutSystems, Kony, etc. It is proprietary and mostly focused on large companies. Full disclosure: I work for Mendix