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My apologies for bring this up again, as I'm sure the developers worked hard on this feature, but since Rice joined Dropbox's board (http://www.drop-dropbox.com

• TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Upvoted. I personally don't care enough and I really, really find Dropbox useful, but I also support holding companies accountable for whatever decisions society deems controversial. Thanks for reminder!
• vxxzy 11y ago
  Wow. This is news to me. I have been a long time paying customer of Dropbox. This makes me uneasy. Time to start migrating away from it. Does anyone have recommendations on Dropbox Alternatives?
  • phireal 11y ago
    I use ownCloud [1] on a pretty low end VPS and the recent released are greatly improved over the earlier versions. The clients (mobile, desktop) are also much better now. [1] http://www.owncloud.org http://www.owncloud.org
  • reefab 11y ago
    I've migrated to Bittorent Sync: http://getsync.com http://getsync.com it's a "no cloud" solution. They don't see your data. I'm happy with it but I do have a NAS at home that serves as a "always on" sync point for my other devices.
    • voltagex_ 11y ago
      Check your connections. I moved away from Bittorrent Sync because I couldn't easily stop it hitting external trackers, or if I did, sync stopped working completely (especially on the Android client).
      • ish007 11y ago
        It is possible to turn off the tracker and use "predefined hosts" instead - see details here: http://help.getsync.com/customer/portal/articles/1901264 http://help.getsync.com/customer/portal/articles/1901264 Note that the "predefined hosts" must be able to access each other (once you turn off the tracker for a folder you also disable NAT traversal)
  • jmaistre 11y ago
    I use SpiderOak, since it allows for client-side encryption (zero-knowledge on their part, they have no way of seeing my files).
    • smt88 11y ago
      Another benefit of SpiderOak is that they de-duplicate your data, so you may end up using less space on SpiderOak than you do on your own machine.
      • nine_k 11y ago
        I wonder how encrypted data can be de-duplicated. Do they use per-file encryption with no per-file salt?
        • smt88 11y ago
          You can share files with other people, similar to the way you can with Dropbox. That might indicate that encryption is done per-file (which is actually a little less secure, so who knows). I haven't researched it, but it could work like this: scan the local machine, find duplicates, upload unique files, and then create links to any place a file is duplicated. It all happens locally, so only encrypted data is ever uploaded. Some tiny bit of info about the structure of the file system might be transferred and known by SpiderOak, but I can't conceive of a situation where that matters.
        • icebraining 11y ago
          Dunno about SpiderOak, but the way Tarsnap does it, is that as blocks are encrypted and uploaded, the client keeps metadata about them locally (presumably an hash, size, etc). Then that metadata is also encrypted and uploaded to the server. When it wants to upload more blocks, it just looks at that metadata and skips duplicated blocks, updating only the metadata to point to the existing block.
          • cperciva 11y ago
            All of that is correct, but more to the point: Client data is deduplicated before it is encrypted.
• jMyles 11y ago
  > My apologies for bring this up again, Don't apologize. Bring this up every single time. It's relevant every time Dropbox is mentioned, and easy for them to change. > the views of their board members It's not just the views. It's also the basic resource of trust: Dropbox is not a trustless vendor - their basic service requires trust. And yet they have a board member who has unambiguously and without apology violated client trust in her previous engagement.
  • mynameisvlad 11y ago
    > It's relevant every time Dropbox is mentioned I disagree. If the thread is about Dropbox in relation to their security/privacy, then yes, it's relevant. In a thread announcing a new service, with no other mention to privacy? Not so much. That said, I'm not saying it's not important to bring it up. It's very much important to discuss the implications of something like that, and people clearly didn't know about it judging by the comments here. But I disagree that this is the right place for it; a repost of that thread from 2 years ago I'd consider more appropriate for this discussion.
    • hackuser 11y ago
      > If the thread is about Dropbox in relation to their security/privacy, then yes, it's relevant Arguably, security is an issue for anything that contains user content. Dropbox's business is enabling users to share content. I could see that the issue might not be appropriate everywhere but I think it's appropriate here.
      • mynameisvlad 11y ago
        I mean, if we're going to be that vague, we can say the internet is relevant as a discussion topic because Dropbox's business relies on it. The security of this one feature might be relevant, but the security of the company, especially in the context of a completely separate decision that isn't at all related to this product is, IMO, not relevant here. My concern is that such a topic is going to dwarf the discussion of this feature, which is really what we should be discussing here. You can already see it happening; the comment thread is the top thread here, and most of the comments on this story are related to it. So while that shows people are interested in that particular topic and its implications, it's also by far dwarfing the real discussion topic for this link, which is the Dropbox Paper product.
• ljk 11y ago
  Not defending Dropbox, but aren't most of the big companies already sharing our information anyways? Microsoft/Skype - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-c... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29#Companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/20/nsa-prism-tech-companies_n_4999378.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/20/nsa-prism-tech-comp...
  • smt88 11y ago
    Sharing information under pressure from the government is different from asking for leadership from a war criminal and co-architect of an incredibly shady administration. In the first case, it's something that companies can fight back against (and some have) as long as their hands aren't tied by unconstitutional, secret pressure. In the second case, it's the company actively going out to ask for that kind of influence on their organization. And, furthermore, Dropbox's reason to exist is to keep your privacy. It's not like a gaming site or something. Leaking your Dropbox information would almost always compromise your privacy/safety.
• omginternets 11y ago
  Thank you for this info. This is the tipping point for me; I'm going to start using something else. I humbly suggest people look into the following, and am eager for suggestions from other HN readers: - rsync - btsync
  • dorfsmay 11y ago
    - SpiderOak
  • deckard1 11y ago
    Unison. https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ It handles file conflicts, which is massively critical for anyone thinking of rolling their own. It also works over ssh, so it's encrypted.
    • dude01 11y ago
      Yup, I love Unison. Been using it for years at home. Though I've been worried that it's not being actively maintained. But I guess as long as it works...
      • deckard1 11y ago
        I think their position is they no longer have someone paid to work on it, as the research phase has ended. But it is still maintained. Albeit, slowly. And them using a rather outdated website and svn to host doesn't really do them favors. They need to get someone in there to modernize it a bit. Switch it to git. Doesn't even have to be hosted on github, but somewhere more visible would help.
  • dheera 11y ago
    Be careful with rsync, whose original purpose is mirroring, not backups. Specifically, if you're using it as a backup system of any kind, you want to use the --delete-after option, or else your receiver might delete the file before the sender even finds out the hard disk is corrupt (--delete-before is default, which is dangerous for a backup system). You may also want to set the --max-delete option, to avoid the scenario where the sender doesn't have the volume mounted, resulting in the receiver deleting everything. Be also aware that rsync is completely unencrypted, so you need to use it in conjuction with sshfs, ecryptfs, or some other method if you want security.
• 0x49 11y ago
  Do you still use Google? Not only do they have ties to the NSA: http://www.salon.com/2014/11/16/googles_secret_nsa_alliance_the_terrifying_deals_between_silicon_valley_and_the_security_state/ http://www.salon.com/2014/11/16/googles_secret_nsa_alliance_... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/04/08/hillary-clinton-hires-google-executive-to-be-chief-technology-officer/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/04... Hillary hires Google executive as CTO ..and of course the data mining startup that Eric Schmidt is using in an attempt to get Clinton elected as president (the same one that worked for Obama): http://qz.com/520652/groundwork-eric-schmidt-startup-working-for-hillary-clinton-campaign/ http://qz.com/520652/groundwork-eric-schmidt-startup-working... Many companies in Silicon Valley are tied to bad politicians and politics. At this point, it's almost necessary to survive. My point is that if you are using this as a basis for services that you will or will not use, you will be left with a computer running GEOS...and no access to the outside world. I just don't put any data on any cloud provider that I don't want the government to see. Bittorrent Sync works pretty well as a personal cloud provider.
  • thecosas 11y ago
    Apple seems like the only big company out there which takes an active stance on privacy and doing everything legally possible to protect it: http://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-requests/ http://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-requests...
    • jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Have you seen Apple's designs, code, and fabrication plants? Why wouldn't Apple capitulate to possible demands to claim privacy, while actually spreading compromised devices?
    • Oletros 11y ago
      No, Apple is not the only one https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-government-data-requests-2015 https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-government-data-reques...
• oneplusone 11y ago
  Also see Rice's partaking in justifying torture, holding people without charging them with a crime, and indefinite detention. And that is just the things that have come out. Any company willing to associate with such a person deserves to go under.
• fsloth 11y ago
  Personally, I consider all data I store in "the cloud" volatile and non-secure. I am confident I can retain IP for the data I upload to services but that's about it. I have no guarantees any of the devices I use are not compromised so the security of my external data feels like a moot point.
• petergatsby 11y ago
  It's tempting to criticize the decision to hire Rice based on weak spots in her track record, but we should resist the urge. In reality, Rice could've been recruited because of her relationships with top govt. security officials, in the hopes of facilitating more conversations, in which Dropbox has more leverage, to push back against mass surveillance. If something like this isn't the case, then firing Rice wouldn't be a resolution anyway.
  • icebraining 11y ago
    Considering that she's a well known apologist of mass surveillance, what you're saying is that maybe they are simply using her and abusing her trust to undermine her own positions. That's not exactly reassuring vis-a-vis their ethical character.
    • petergatsby 11y ago
      Positions on complex, high-level issues usually don't translate into predictable behaviors in specific, real-life scenarios. As for character, it's unclear what's unsettling about presumed utilitarians acting towards what they believe to be best outcomes.
      • icebraining 11y ago
        Positions on complex, high-level issues usually don't translate into predictable behaviors in specific, real-life scenarios. If that's the problem, then shouldn't they explain the connection? Since they won't, it's only natural to assume the obvious. And why would one presume them utilitarians?
        • petergatsby 11y ago
          Leaders of large companies usually have to manage a wide array of disparate and sometimes diametrically opposed interests. The guys at Dropbox are smart; isn't the "obvious" assumption that Rice could be useful in helping them to better manage some of these interests (e.g. potentially reducing govt. snooping by facilitating a more level playing field for comms. and negotiation)?. Aren't most reasonable people utilitarians? :)
• eecks 11y ago
  How can I easily transfer my Dropbox data to another service?
• edanm 11y ago
  Are we really at the point where we blacklist companies because we don't like the views of some people on its board? That feels... wrong to me.
  • dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Are we really at the point where we blacklist companies because we don't like the views of some people on its board? Some people do that, some people don't. There's no meaningful "we" here. > That feels... wrong to me. Why?
    • robotnoises 11y ago
      Fair question. Maybe it's the belief that a company is bigger than one person? Or perhaps it's closer to "separating the art from the artist?"
  • Touche 11y ago
    It's not her views on abortion or gun control or whatever else are the issue. It's her views on privacy and the company being trusted with very private data.
  • 6stringmerc 11y ago
    Fair enough, but I think the context of Rice versus the public outcry against the Mozilla CEO's personal beliefs is a worthwhile distinction to keep in mind.
• rocky1138 11y ago
  This is the primary reason I moved away from them. First to BitTorrent Sync and now to Syncthing. I used to be a huge Dropbox fan. http://johnrockefeller.net/the-lady-in-the-middle/ http://johnrockefeller.net/the-lady-in-the-middle/