8 ms·
In Bel-Air, someone is using 1,300 gallons of water per hour
- NN88 11y agoGulf country national?
- api 11y agoElon lives there, so maybe he's hosting some emissaries from ... elsewhere ... who have special needs in this department.
- jerf 11y agoUnlikely; as demonstrated in the documentary movie Signs, they don't really like water. Perhaps it's a defense system.
- bkeroack 11y agoIt's difficult to foster a sense of civic responsibility in foreign nationals who are merely parking their money here.
- ceejayoz 11y agoBecause American billionaires would never waste water, right?
- minority-one 11y agoYou're committing the Tu Quoque fallacy. Also, questions are not arguments. Did you mean to say, that actually instilling a sense of civic responsibility in foreign nationals is easy? If so, please argue this case.
- drdaeman 11y agoSince not everyone is familiar with customary metric system, I guess I'll leave this comment to save some time searching or doing math. 1300 US gallons ≈ 4931 liters
- joepvd 11y agoThanks, but that leaves doubt whether you wrote a decimal or thousands separator. It is close to 5000 liters.
- parent5446 11y agoThe International Bureau of Weights and Measures standardized using thin spaces as a thousands separator and either a period or comma for a decimal separator. I recommend not adopting the mindset of using a comma or period as a thousands separator, as all it will do is lead to confusion depending on which country you're in.
- Justin_K 11y agoWorst reply ever.
- strictnein 11y agoAn honest question: Do the regions that use a comma for a decimal separator still call it a decimal point?
- joepvd 11y agoNot in the languages that I am familiar with. the big question is, whether it is before or after The Comma. The Comma does not need more qualifiers than that.
- gambiting 11y agoPoland here - yep. We call it "punkt dziesiętny" which literally translates to "decimal point",even though we use a comma.
- ihaveajob 11y agoNo, it's a comma. In Spanish, two point three is "dos coma tres".
- drdaeman 11y agoThanks. Removed the decimal separator, since it's surely not important.
- ctdonath 11y agoA few years back, Atlanta faced a serious drought (the two lakes it lives on nearly dried up). Some mansion was discovered to be running a seriously large decorative fountain - without recirculating the water (yes, it came in, got tossed in the air, then flushed down the drain) and wasting water on par with the above article; once published, the public outcry was deafening and recirculation pipes soon added.
- stewartbutler 11y agoAtlanta's situation is actually pretty interesting. Most of the water loss is caused by bad infrastructure (leaky pipes and sewers), and they have massively pissed off pretty much everyone in three states. The city was/is using up a very significant portion of the Chattahoochee and its reserves and tributaries, causing severe issues downstream for Florida, Georgia and Alabama communities. They also injected sewage into the water, causing silting issues. Additionally, faced with shortages, the GA state legislature proposed to run a water pipeline from the other side of the state, essentially stealing more water from other GA sources further east (Savannah area, iirc). Last I was paying attention, GA state legislature had filed a request to take more water out of the Chattahoochee, over objections from Alabama. Went to a Federal judge, who pointed out that Atlanta's use of water from Lake Lenier was actually illegal, in excess of the original authorizations put in place when it was constructed by the Army Corps of Engineers. Oops. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Lanier https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Lanier Go look up the "Tri-state water wars", pretty crazy stuff.
- rsanders 11y agoDriving through some of the more mansion-laden neighborhoods (Buckhead on e.g. Habersham Drive), you'll see signs near the curb saying things like "IRRIGATION WATER DRAWN FROM WELL". I presume those were meant to discourage torches & pitchforks. I'm not sure the distinction is all that meaningful.
- jessaustin 11y agoYou wouldn't expect many wells in big cities, would you? Assuming that to be the case, an occasional well isn't going to hurt the water table.
- bluedino 11y agoRemember all the outcry when Lance Armstrong was spending $2,400 a month to water his Austin digs? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/16/us/16lance.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/16/us/16lance.html?_r=0
- userbinator 11y agoI'm less interested in who is using so much water, than what it's being used for. That rate is around 1.37 litres per second, continuously.
- maxerickson 11y agoI would investigate the country club and the municipality itself, with the expectation that they are using it to water grass.
- mturmon 11y agoThe user in question was stated by LADWP to be a residential user, ruling out the Bel Air Country Club and the city itself.
- maxerickson 11y agoAlso, a quick search says a golf course might use 1 million gallons per day.
- cperciva 11y agoOne possibility is that it's not actually being used for anything. A broken pipe could leak that much water, and depending on the local geology it might reach the water table without anyone noticing.
- VikingCoder 11y agoYeah, but they're being billed $90,000 a year. I suspect if it was just a broken pipe, the person would be motivated to fix it.
- adevine 11y agoI could imagine a billionaire wouldn't really notice it, as they'd probably expect it would cost a lot to keep a large lawn lush and green.
- bradleybuda 11y agoThis is disturbing; the journalist is advocating the outing/doxxing of a private citizen who is breaking no laws whatsoever (at least as far as I can tell from the story). In the internet bully culture we have, that's incredibly irresponsible. If there's something wrong with an individual using so much water (and there may very well be), then the right response is to change the laws, regulations, or rates to charge more or even to prohibit said water use; not to shame an individual who is acting legally within the system.
- chenster 11y agoWater is not just a commodity or utility. IT KEEPS US ALIVE. Without water, we all die. If someone else uses more water, in this case, a hell lot more and meaninglessly wasting it, and in current CA drought condition, ultimately means less water for rest of us to drink and to keep us alive, then there's an advent problem. I'm sick to hear that people say that's OK because on one broke the law. It was like to be OK to discriminate people on basis of race and religion before the equal rights amendment. CA declared a drought state of emergency since early 2014. Doesn't that mean anything to anyone?
- talmand 11y agoAre you suggesting that people go outside the law to obtain their own form of justice?
- chenster 11y agoIt's actually the law: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-snowpack-20150331-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-snowpack-2015033...
- talmand 11y agoIn the context of my question, I fail to see the part in the article explaining that vigilante justice is in the law.
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- oconnore 11y agoHow many desalination plants can you build and operate on $xx,000 * the population of Bel-Air a year?
- AcerbicZero 11y agoPerhaps they're growing alfalfa in their yard. Then its ok to use that much water right?
- Spooky23 11y agoMy wife ran billing for a water utility. Typically issues like this are multi-family units with leaks. A running toilet costs like $2,500/quarter.
- mturmon 11y agoThe leak is in Bel Air: typical it is not. For instance, one prime suspect was Rupert Murdoch's urban vanity vineyard (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Moraga+Vineyard+Co/@34.0844283,-118.4688285,456m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2bcc14be88555:0xae2d1c21abe2c879!6m1!1e1 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Moraga+Vineyard+Co/@34.084...) but they ruled it out because the zip code did not match.
- talmand 11y agoJust because it's in a rich area doesn't mean it couldn't be a typical leak. I have had two properties I rented have a leak in the watering system for the lawn. The first one was spotted right away because of the increase in water usage, by the actual water supplier. Although this was in Vegas so they were pretty quick to identify problems like this. The other was a single family home and I spotted the telltale sign of a leak by a circle of grass growing greener and faster than the rest of the yard. I informed the owners of the likelihood of a leak and they had no idea. The leak was probably there for months if not over a year's time because they had never bothered to check for such things when their elderly mom lived in the house. Now, imagine a rather large yard of a wealthy family who doesn't watch their water bill, nor care about it, and the watering system develops a leak or three over time.
- Spooky23 11y agoHouses in rich neighborhoods have pools, and fancy pools with leaks may be cheaper to pay the crazy water charges than to have it repaired right away. I'm not defending the person, just pointing out that the excessive water usage really isn't that excessive and could be caused by any number of things.
- remarkEon 11y ago-> A June 1 story by the Center for Investigative Reporting did not reveal the name or address, because the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power refused to turn over that information. No, I'm pretty sure they're prohibited from doing so by law.
- mturmon 11y agoFor a less sensational perspective: http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2015/10/lopez_looks_for_biggest_w.php http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2015/10/lopez_looks_for_bi... The columnist, Steve Lopez, is known for these populist stunts. Sometimes, as in this case, it's kind of entertaining, but there's often little substance there. This is captured in the link above, by a very seasoned independent observer of LA, calling the above a "column gimmick."
- tomswartz07 11y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a 'soft ban' on un-necessary water usage? Just like when there's a drought, municipalities enact a 'burn ban', charging those who have open fires with heavy fines. I would assume that in the midst of a serious drought, there would also be heavy fines associated with using non-necessary 'luxury uses' of water; such as filling a swimming pool or watering the lawn.
- abduhl 11y ago1300 gallons of water per hour is 22 gpm. This is basically the same flow rate as a garden hose. This is not a lot of water.
- VikingCoder 11y agoA garden hose which is on 24/7 for an entire year? That's a lot of garden hose.
- matheweis 11y agoThat's pretty far on the high end of that... http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/Residential/Garden-Hose-Flow.php http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/Residential/Ga...
- FireBeyond 11y agoSo the nozzles on our fire engine give 125gpm. That's a pretty powerful garden hose that even 5 could compare to a firefighting hose.
- terminado 11y agoThis feels like it could be a challenge similar to that DARPA challenge to spot all of the red balloons as fast as possible. Not nearly as trivial as observing a conspicuous balloon, though. But I'd like to think this could be reduced to a tech challenge somehow, through ambient humidity detectors, or something ridiculously straight-forward like that. Obviously with enclosed structures, and plumbing being what it is, it's probably not even close to being as simple.
- curiousjorge 11y agoat 9:45am on the morning of July 15th, 2012, at Fox News’s headquarters in New York City, there was a brief water shortage, then everything appear to return to normal. i will have used the water outage, however, to sneak myself more water. People will shriek in horror, children will cry for their lives, my mom will get scared and say “You’re movin’ with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air.” I whistled for a cab and when it came near The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror If anything I could say that this cab was rare But I thought, “Nah, forget it. Yo home to Bel-Air!” I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8 And I yelled to the cabby yo holmes smell ya later Looked at my kingdom I was finally there To sit on my throne as the prince of Bel-Air.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 11y agoUncle Phil taking a bath?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- kazinator 11y agoYou're not easily going to locate the culprit by driving around if the runner-up is using 1295 gallons per hour, third place is 1287, ... etc.
- irixusr 11y agoCan this be true (1300 gal/hour is 5m^3/hour 24/7.)? At first I thought it was impossible. They I crunched some numbers... I don't think this is within the domicile. It must be for irrigation. So let's estimate how large the lot would have to be. Bel-air is [google] 2.9 sq mi, or 1880 acres. A golf course [1](in Iowa, first example I found) uses on average 233 gal/acrehour on their worst month. So 1300 gal/hour is a lot size of 1300/233 = 5.3 acres. This is an upper bound [2] 5.3 acres? That's not necessarily a large lot! Especially if it's for the largest of all lots! [1] http://news.cybergolf.com/golf_news/johnny_walker_asks_how_much_water_does_a_golf_course_use_for_irrigation http://news.cybergolf.com/golf_news/johnny_walker_asks_how_m... [2] Note that the numbers I used are specifically assuming a certain amount of rainfall, which California doesn't have. I'm too lazy to use the numbers given in the article to have a better estimate, but I used "conservative" numbers so the lot size is an upper bound
- waterlesscloud 11y agoThere's at least one 100+ acre estate back in those hills, but it's mostly wild. I dunno what the biggest irrigated lawn up there is. My guess would be less than 10 acres, but that's a guess. Five acres is well with in the realm of possibility, almost certain.
- abduhl 11y agoThis is aggressively conservative. The evapotranspiration rate in California is 2x - 3x that of Iowa and the average rainfall is likely close to 0 inches in LA of which almost none is usable for landscape purposes. I would not be surprised if this much water is needed for a 2 acre or smaller sized lawn.
- nkurz 11y agothe average rainfall is likely close to 0 inches in LA of which almost none is usable for landscape purposes The average rainfall is Los Angeles is 15 inches per year. Why do you say this is "close to 0"? I would not be surprised if this much water is needed for a 2 acre or smaller sized lawn. 1300 gallons/hour * 24 hours * 365 days/year = 35 acre feet / year. https://www.google.com/search?&q=1300+*+24+*+365+gallons+in+acre+feet https://www.google.com/search?&q=1300+*+24+*+365+gallons+in+... I would be surprised if someone was putting 15 feet of water per year on a lawn! For comparison, the average Southern California golf courses about 3 acre-feet per year: http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/rewater/drought/drought-fact-check-teed-off-about-golf-courses.html http://www.kcet.org/news/redefine/rewater/drought/drought-fa...
- chenster 11y agoWater is not just a commodity or utility. IT KEEPS US ALIVE. Without water, we all die. If someone else uses more water, in this case, a hell lot more and meaninglessly wasting it, and in current CA drought condition, ultimately means less water for rest of us to drink and to keep us alive, then there's an advent problem. I'm sick to hear that people say that's OK because on one broke the law. It was like to be OK to discriminate people on basis of race and religion before the equal rights amendment. CA declared a drought state of emergency since early 2014. Doesn't that mean anything to anyone?
- MichaelGG 11y agoHow about it's OK because it's not that much? Commercial users dramatically outweigh residential, even including folks like this. The whole Cali drought situation is farcial, encouraging citizens to cut back private use while ignoring the real big users. Under what premise is it OK for a commercial user to have more rights to paid water use than residential? I think it also plays into Californians' need to suffer, to pretend they're helping. A nice restaurant in SF I like makes a fuss about serving water, under pretense of a drought. As if that makes one shred of difference other than pretending to do something.
- kragen 11y agoThis 1.4 liters per second (or 1300 gallons per hour, or 11.8 million gallons per year) works out to 36 acre feet per year. California alfalfa uses 4 million to 5.5 million acre feet per year on about a million acres, so that's about six to nine acres of alfalfa. That means that every single alfalfa farmer with more than nine acres planted is a bigger water hog than this constantly running garden hose or whatever it is. That alfalfa doesn't even feed people. It feeds cows. How much beef do you need to eat to occupy nine acres? Probably several cows per year.