5 ms·
Drugs, prostitution, money laundering, violence and protection rackets. I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from
by junto 11y ago
Drugs, prostitution, money laundering, violence and protection rackets. I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society.
- kasey_junk 11y agoAnd what about folks having a hamburger at a restaurant that apparently didn't do anything?
- kazinator 11y agoThey can ... stay in society? Apparent trick questions make me nervous.
- kasey_junk 11y agoAll 177 people who were at that restaurant were charged with the same thing, even though there is no evidence that they were involved. Like literally the people hiding in the bathroom were charged the same as the people shooting out front. I'm wondering what those folks did to deserve removal from society without question.
- T-Roy 11y agocharged != convicted
- kasey_junk 11y agoNope but in this case it does mean "spent lots (~a month) of time in jail and lost your job".
- kazinator 11y agoThe justice system can also pull innocent away people from their jobs and families by calling them out to jury duty.
- learc83 11y agoBut the judge set bail at 1 Million dollars for all 177 of them
- logfromblammo 11y agoJustice of the peace, not judge. The person who set the initial bond apparently had no sanctioned education in the law. I have trouble believing that even the most devious and corrupt J.D. in existence could possibly create a legal theory that would even begin to square what that magistrate did with the laws of Waco, Texas, and the U.S. The guy probably did it as a pseudo-legal way of punishing folks for being in a MC, without going through the hassle of due process. As they say, you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride. In his mind, the bikers were all guilty of "contempt of Waco". A Texas JP is allowed to institute penalties for contempt of a maximum of $100 and 3 days in jail. They can set bail, but their authority to try cases is limited to misdemeanor offenses punishable only by fines, and civil disputes less than $10k. Given the situation, the JP should have called upon a real judge--or actually several real judges--to process the 177 in custody.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- WorkingDead 11y agoThere are laws that deal with gangs and organized crime. The Banditos and Cossacks are both very much gangs and very into organized crime. Being present at a gang shoot out while wearing gang colors is association. Is that fair? probably not, but that's what happened.
- sp332 11y agoAside from all the ones the cops killed by indiscriminately firing into a crowded restaurant?
- scott_karana 11y agoNone of those things were actually occurring here: the shootout happened at a sports bar.
- nickbauman 11y agoWhich means it was a turf war ultimately.
- scott_karana 11y agoDid you read the article? It could just as well have been police-aggravated, or a combination of the two.
- nickbauman 11y agoDo you live in this society? Why would anyone assume that the police are not part of a turf war? Police are a gang, too. They just have a government mandate.
- duaneb 11y ago> I really don't think that we should have a problem with the removal of such people from our society. The devil is in the details. I think that most people would happen to agree, but I don't approve of e.g. capital punishment or arresting based on being associated with a gang involved in criminal activity. These kinds of reactions don't just affect the current generation, they affect that generation's kids. Only rehabilitation of the parents is likely to seriously improve their lives, IMHO.
- learc83 11y agoThe funny part is that many of the people arrested weren't part of gangs that are even alleged to be involved in criminal activity (until that day). Many of them weren't in the Bandidos and Cossacks, but regular 99% biker clubs. Some of the guys arrested were in the Soldiers for Jesus Christian Motorcycle Club, not some outlaw biker gang.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago> Some of the guys arrested were in the Soldiers for Jesus Christian Motorcycle Club. Did you get that from the article, or do you have additional sources? The article had one photo of a Christian biker (or rather, one photo of a biker and the caption said he was with a Christian club). The caption did not say that he (or others with the club) were at Twin Peaks, nor did the article mention them whatsoever. Or did I miss something? To me, it seemed really odd, like the article was trying to say "see, some of these bikers are really decent people" and imply that some of them were there at Twin Peaks that day, when they really weren't.
- aianus 11y agoWho's going to supply us with drugs and prostitutes if not outlaws? It's the government legislation of morality that empowers outlaws and it will never end so long as human beings like to fuck and get high. Edit: s/causes these things/empowers outlaws/
- AnimalMuppet 11y agoSome of these gangs are doing human trafficking. If you think that laws against that are "legislating morality" rather than the only sane moral stand, then I don't even know how to begin having a conversation about ethics with you.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoGood luck convincing people to get rid of cops tho.
- ctdonath 11y agoSome of us have a VERY big problem with such removal without review by judge & jury. Seems the police were already there and prepared for a battle, and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse (not the first time such has happened in Waco, with comparably bad results). We have a judicial process for a reason, and bad things happen when "removal of such people" is taken lightly.
- AnimalMuppet 11y agoThe police could well have been there because they had good reason to suspect that there was going to be trouble. > and there's a viable theory they were just waiting for an excuse But is there a viable theory that the police started the shooting? If you're going to start a shootout in town, and the police are there in force to try to stop that from happening, and you start a shootout anyway, and the police shoot you to get you to stop shooting other people, well... I don't have much room for feeling like the police are out of control there. If you have evidence that says that I misunderstood the way events happened, feel free to correct my understanding...
- kelvin0 11y agoPolice acting as agent provocateurs is not new: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-undercover-at-montebello-protest-1.656171 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/quebec-police-admit-they-went-...
- AnimalMuppet 11y agoI get that. Is there evidence that the police were doing so in this case?
- ctdonath 11y agoSuch evidence is rarely obvious. Police are refusing to provide what evidence they do have (videos etc), judges have offered "we'll drop charges if you don't counter-charge", sweeping million-dollar bonds imposed on 177 people present are being seriously reduced or dropped, and other highly suspect actions are raising red flags. What we do have is narratives from bikers present, and some photographic evidence that raises doubts about who started it. There's a lot to discuss/research, so I'll just give you a couple links as major starting points. I'm not saying whether I agree/accept the theories or not, just that we don't have enough definitive evidence to support or deny the conspiracy theory. Short version: police snipers were already positioned, an undercover agent either started something or was "made", a fight was provoked and police were strangely quick to start firing. http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/19/biker-truthers-emerge-calling-waco-shootout-a-police-massacre/ http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/19/biker-truthers-eme... http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/27/waco-twin-peaks-shooting-the-crossfire/comment-page-1/ http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/27/waco-twin-pea... (Please don't launch into criticizing the messengers; this is about the message.)
- a3n 11y agoArrest and investigate, or investigate and arrest, try, convict and punish. That's civilization. Take people out because someone says they're bad. That's not.
- tsotha 11y agoAnd we have a system for that. But part of the system is proving the people in question are engaging in that kind of criminal behavior.