5 ms·

"coder boot camps" are for suckers.

by lemmon7 11y ago

WalterSear 11y ago
Suckers like the 3 excellent, well paid, junior engineers that I work with every day, who are doing a bang up job.
- enahs-sf 11y ago
  From my experiences interviewing candidates from Hack Reactor, GA, Code School/Academy, et al, i'd say, results not typical.
  - timr 11y ago
    To be fair, you don't really know what his beginners are "banging up". It simply doesn't take much skill to use a web framework to generate database-backed webpages (witness the rise of the "javascript programmer"). The bootcamps are cranking out a commodity product for a commodity world.
    - sotojuan 11y ago
      That is interesting, because I am a CS student and that's exactly want I want to start my career with (web development). I do a lot of React on my own and have some Rails background. It seems like entry-level jobs in that area, between other CS majors, bootcamp grads, and self-taught developers, are going to get tough to get.
      - WalterSear 11y ago
        Actually, IMHO, it's easier than ever. Supply can't keep up with demand, and anyone who can show demonstrable skills via a portfolio of relevant personal projects and the demonstrable practical knowledge is on the fast track.
        sotojuan 11y ago
        That's good to know. Thanks!
    - johan_larson 11y ago
      It's not like it is the first time this has happened. EDS (remember them?) had so much demand for programmers back in the mainframe days that they resorted to hiring people with no knowledge of computers, pushing them through a three/four-month course in programming, and them putting them to work as junior coders.
  - rdudek 11y ago
    I guess it may also depend on the individual. Some people will do better and learn better from those camps. Majority probably get suckered into it as some holy grail of career change, not knowing what they're getting themselves into.
    - tariqali34 11y ago
      Ideally, you will learn from a bootcamp how to self-teach yourself, so you would not need to spend more money on a second bootcamp.
- apta 11y ago
  Web developers?
  - justathrow2k 11y ago
    Out of curiosity, why do you ask if they are web developers?
    - kedean 11y ago
      Because that's largely what boot camps focus on. They are there to teach you what's popular right now, which is web dev. They aren't going to teach you kernel development, or backend application development, or graphics skills, because that's not what 'omgstartups' are hiring for.
      - apta 11y ago
        Exactly. Not to mention "not hip" things like security, performance sensitive code, distributed systems, HCI, solid understanding of computing theory, and so on. Web devs tend to be easily replaceable, so why not hire a bunch of juniors (at a cheap cost) to get the job done? This is what it seems these types of "academies" are targeting anyway. Like "timr" said in this thread: "... a commodity product for a commodity world."
        justathrow2k 11y ago
        Fair enough, but I don't see how any of this has to do with the topic at hand, which was boot camps are for suckers. I wouldn't consider the junior developers who are working out well in the parents reply suckers - sounds like they're employed and working out well.
        Kalium 11y ago
        They bought a product (bootcamp) in the pursuit of a career in software engineering. Odds are they aren't equipped for more than a series of jobs doing webdev scut work. "Suckers" might be a bit strong, but their expectations may suffer a certain misalignment with reality.
arnamak 11y ago
Damn, guess I'm a sucker for trying to better myself by attending 9 weeks of fun/education leading to an awesome job that I love. How could I have been so foolish!

"coder boot camps" are for suckers.

by lemmon7 11y ago

"coder boot camps" are for suckers.

WalterSear 11y ago

Suckers like the 3 excellent, well paid, junior engineers that I work with every day, who are doing a bang up job.

enahs-sf 11y ago
From my experiences interviewing candidates from Hack Reactor, GA, Code School/Academy, et al, i'd say, results not typical.
- timr 11y ago
  To be fair, you don't really know what his beginners are "banging up". It simply doesn't take much skill to use a web framework to generate database-backed webpages (witness the rise of the "javascript programmer"). The bootcamps are cranking out a commodity product for a commodity world.
  - sotojuan 11y ago
    That is interesting, because I am a CS student and that's exactly want I want to start my career with (web development). I do a lot of React on my own and have some Rails background. It seems like entry-level jobs in that area, between other CS majors, bootcamp grads, and self-taught developers, are going to get tough to get.
    - WalterSear 11y ago
      Actually, IMHO, it's easier than ever. Supply can't keep up with demand, and anyone who can show demonstrable skills via a portfolio of relevant personal projects and the demonstrable practical knowledge is on the fast track.
      - sotojuan 11y ago
        That's good to know. Thanks!
  - johan_larson 11y ago
    It's not like it is the first time this has happened. EDS (remember them?) had so much demand for programmers back in the mainframe days that they resorted to hiring people with no knowledge of computers, pushing them through a three/four-month course in programming, and them putting them to work as junior coders.
- rdudek 11y ago
  I guess it may also depend on the individual. Some people will do better and learn better from those camps. Majority probably get suckered into it as some holy grail of career change, not knowing what they're getting themselves into.
  - tariqali34 11y ago
    Ideally, you will learn from a bootcamp how to self-teach yourself, so you would not need to spend more money on a second bootcamp.
apta 11y ago
Web developers?
- justathrow2k 11y ago
  Out of curiosity, why do you ask if they are web developers?
  - kedean 11y ago
    Because that's largely what boot camps focus on. They are there to teach you what's popular right now, which is web dev. They aren't going to teach you kernel development, or backend application development, or graphics skills, because that's not what 'omgstartups' are hiring for.
    - apta 11y ago
      Exactly. Not to mention "not hip" things like security, performance sensitive code, distributed systems, HCI, solid understanding of computing theory, and so on. Web devs tend to be easily replaceable, so why not hire a bunch of juniors (at a cheap cost) to get the job done? This is what it seems these types of "academies" are targeting anyway. Like "timr" said in this thread: "... a commodity product for a commodity world."
      - justathrow2k 11y ago
        Fair enough, but I don't see how any of this has to do with the topic at hand, which was boot camps are for suckers. I wouldn't consider the junior developers who are working out well in the parents reply suckers - sounds like they're employed and working out well.
        Kalium 11y ago
        They bought a product (bootcamp) in the pursuit of a career in software engineering. Odds are they aren't equipped for more than a series of jobs doing webdev scut work. "Suckers" might be a bit strong, but their expectations may suffer a certain misalignment with reality.

arnamak 11y ago

Damn, guess I'm a sucker for trying to better myself by attending 9 weeks of fun/education leading to an awesome job that I love. How could I have been so foolish!