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Microsoft Is Downloading 6GB of Windows 10 Updates Without User’s Consent
- teaneedz 11y agoSo why are we allowing Microsoft to get away with it?
- x5n1 11y agoWhy are we allowing any of the corporations, governments, and police departments to get away with any of the stupid shit they continuously do? Mostly because it would take a significant act of power to do anything about it, power which we don't have and even if we do, we do not wish to exercise. The exercising of which would probably cause more problems in the short term than it would solve. Most people will not do anything about such problems.
- teaneedz 11y agoAgreed, most will probably do nothing that's an inconvenience. It just seems that Windows 10 should be causing us all to leave Windows completely since it is out rightly not respecting users and not even caring about it. Linux time.
- pdkl95 11y agoMost will probably do nothing because they don't see an alternative, and so they are resigned to using products they know are harmful. https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/publications/tradeoff-fallacy-how-marketers-are-misrepresenting-american-consumers-and https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/publications/tradeoff-... edit: fixed URL I copied from the wrong tab
- GrinningFool 11y ago> Mostly because it would take a significant act of power to do anything about it, power which we don't have and even if we do, we do not wish to exercise. It starts a step before that - awareness. Most folks aren't aware of the things that are done, and even of those who are only a minor subset consider these things to be a problem. Lack of motivation to try to make change winnows out most of those who get past the first two problems. The unfortunate truth is that of the small subset who are aware and offended, most simply have higher priorities.
- x5n1 11y ago> Most folks aren't aware of the things that are done I totally disagree. With today's media most people are hyper aware, disproportionately, of everything that goes on. Perhaps even desensitized by their over-awareness.
- pdkl95 11y agoAs long as MS gets paid, they will do what they want, so stop paying them. Stop giving them revenue directly, and stop giving them market share that that they profit from indirectly. Anybody that continues to use their products is asking for more of this crap. Some may complain that their business depends on Windows; that's unfortunate, but why didn't they have a second source for all mission critical dependencies?
- vblord 11y agoI don't know if it's a matter of our business depending on Windows more than our business wanting to depend on Windows. We like using Windows because they have such an awesome product. Same thing with Apple. I got the new OS and all of a sudden my iphone 3g started going unbearably slow... so I had to get a new iphone. My stance is... if they use 6gb of my internet to download updates... okay, whatever... i get unlimited(ish). But if I turn it off and it still does it... that sounds more like a bug in their software. It's still not a big enough deal for me not go with Windows for an OS... it's too good of an OS. I don't think it warrants boycotting MS. P.S. I didn't pay for Win10. They gave me the upgrade for free.
- pdkl95 11y ago> I didn't pay for Win10. They gave me the upgrade for free. Oh, you paid for it; the price tag simply wasn't in dollars. You should probably see Aral Balkan's explanation[1] of the concept. [1] https://projectbullrun.org/surveillance/2015/video-2015.html#balkan https://projectbullrun.org/surveillance/2015/video-2015.html...
- 9872 11y agoBecause automatically keeping all Windows users on the latest version makes the internet safer for everyone.
- wang_li 11y agoIs Microsoft/Apple/Google/etc. prepared to pay me for software that I've previously purchased but is incompatible with their newer OS? Plus any costs associated with finding new software, training on the new software, migrating to the new software, etc.?
- 9872 11y agoIt's the application developer's responsibility to maintain compatibility. That's why Windows offers people dev preview builds. The people who make the software you use don't do that? Don't use their software.
- nacs 11y agoThis isn't a security patch. This is pre-downloading an entire OS upgrade without the user asking for it.
- 9872 11y agoYou don't believe the newer version of the OS is more secure? If nothing else, supporting fewer active versions would make MS more responsive to any security issues that do arise.
- nacs 11y agoNo I certainly don't. And Windows 7/8 is still supported and patched so nothing makes Windows 10 any more secure. In fact, I'd say it's less secure since it hasn't been as well tested in the wild as Win 7/8.
- ebarock 11y agoWhat has Microsoft done with user consent?
- lotso 11y agoIt seems Microsoft's position is that if a user has auto-updates on, they have consented to downloading the installer for Windows 10.
- sp332 11y agoThe default selection is to download and install updates automatically. You'd think they would check for available disk space beforehand though.
- xtrumanx 11y agoAnyone know what the "$Windows.~BT" folder is would supposedly be located?
- Alupis 11y agoin the root of the C:\ drive (it's a hidden directory)
- brandon272 11y agoI wouldn't argue that I haven't given consent if I have "download updates automatically" in my settings. That being said, Microsoft should use better judgment in terms of checking for available disk space (i.e. don't auto download 6GB worth of updates unless 20GB+ space is available on the drive) and not saturating customer connections since the update is by no means critical (i.e. limit it to 10% of the user's bandwidth)
- takeda 11y agoupdate vs upgrade
- lukeschlather 11y agoI don't think 20GB is enough to make 6GB a trivial amount. I'd say more like 100GB. MS needs to prompt when downloading amounts of data over a few hundred megabytes, period. There are still places in the world where a prompt is required even for amounts measured in megabytes.
- tdees40 11y agoI feel sorry for New Zealanders, where the internet is typically metered...
- malux85 11y agoHoly smoke - this isn't very good. My parents in NZ only get 1 or 2 GB a month ... this would have cost them a fortune. Fortunately I switched them to mac last year. Microsoft : You suck.
- tbrock 11y agoYeah but, if unpatched, it would have downloaded more as part of a botnet.
- cousin_it 11y agoA security update shouldn't take 6 GB of space.
- 9872 11y agoHow much space should it take?
- ubercow13 11y agoWindows 8.1 is supported until 2018
- detaro 11y agoWindows 10 is not a "a patch"
- Karunamon 11y agoWindows Update downloads more than "patches". It has been used in the past to distribute standalone tools and service packs.
- function_seven 11y agoIt has never wholesale upgraded the OS to a new major version. Nobody expects it to.
- rubidium 11y agoHeadline is misleading. They do have consent. This is one reason I don't allow automatic updates. MS statement: "For individuals who have chosen to receive automatic updates through Windows Update, we help upgradable devices get ready for Windows 10 by downloading the files they’ll need if they decide to upgrade."
- pdabbadabba 11y agoI think this is a stretch. While they may have users' consent in the broadest, legalistic sense, I think it is doubtful that users who chose to receive automatic updates would expect that this would extend to a 6 GB download of an entirely new version of the OS. This is not your usual Windows update, and is probably not the sort of thing users have in mind when they opt in for automatic updates.
- robrobrob 11y agoWindows 10 Home edition doesn't allow you to turn off automatic updates (or at least I haven't seen an option to do so). I did manage to turn off automatically seeding the updates to others, which I also find to be egregious.
- MLR 11y agoThis article is referring to Windows 7 and 8, not 10.
- itg 11y agoSo if people don't want gigabytes of data downloaded they have no use for, they have to turn off an option that gives them timely security updates.
- rubidium 11y agoNot saying I agree with MS's decision of what constitutes an update, but if a user grants a company the option to automatically download and install stuff to their computer, they're kindof writing a blank check.
- pachydermic 11y agoThis is really infuriating... Microsoft, what the hell? I really hope steam machines take off (and stay relatively open). As soon as I'm happy with the number of games Linux supports I'm dropping windows like a rock.
- psykovsky 11y agoSo... never?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- mirages 11y agoShort script to disable that behavior (and telemetry) https://gist.github.com/Citillara/3ad19ce3314a0964758f https://gist.github.com/Citillara/3ad19ce3314a0964758f
- anakha 11y agoFor anyone running Windows 7 or 8.1 that wants to stop the Windows 10 upgrade pop-ups or the download if the PC hasn't already downloaded it, uninstall and hide KB3035583.
- pasbesoin 11y agoIn yet another fashion, MS demonstrating its considerable disconnect from and lack of understanding of (and/or apparent will to understand) a significant portion of its "average users". A lot of people have space and bandwidth limitations. We don't all live it the land of huge capacity and unmetered fiber connections.
- johnward 11y agoI don't get the "without consent" part. If you have automatic updates on you consent to them automatically downloading things.
- melling 11y agoIt's crazy that Microsoft gets so much heat for trying everything it can to get people to its latest OS. By this time next week, a couple hundred million people will be running iOS 9. Within six months they should have 85-90% of their users on it. This makes it better for Apple, developers, and the users. Windows needs a little more of an "onward" mentality.
- Retra 11y agoMicrosoft is getting heat for trying everything they can because they're supposed to be "trying everything they should," instead of violating their user's expectations. It's great the MS wants everyone on their latest OS. But "latest" doesn't mean "best." Taking away user choice subverts the economic principles that encourage improvement -- that "best" is decided by the consumer, not the producer. It would be ideal for developers if we all just used one OS. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do for the customers, the economy, or society.
- johnward 11y agoCan't users opt out by disabling automatic updates? Microsoft is basically doing what every other modern software company does but taking heat for it.
- wang_li 11y agoArguably all software vendors who sell a product should be prepared to do two things: 1. continue fixing bugs in their prior products. 2. create new features in new products. People who buy something, e.g. an original iPad, no longer get OS updates even though the item was advertised as being safe to use to access content on the internet. This is provably false and while EULA shenanigans provide a fig leaf of propriety, the reality is what was sold was defective and if it's possible to fix it they should. Opting out of updates means that you don't get fixes. The argument that you agree to these kinds of changes in fundamental behavior because you are receiving new features is B.S. The company sold me a defective product and certain documented behaviors. I'm ok with those behaviors but I want the product to work for the features advertised. I should have to tolerate excessive data collection simply to get a functional product.
- A010 11y agoSo, basically update means upgrade now?
- draw_down 11y agoClaiming consent because automatic updates are on is really, really a stretch. Strikes me as disingenuous. I'm very surprised they've done this, it just seems so stupid and prone to backfire.
- 0x0 11y agoISPs with metered subscribers are going to make a killing this month!
- Karunamon 11y agoIsn't there an on-by-default option that causes Windows to behave differently wrt. updates if you're on a metered connection? Still, it's on the user to mark their connection as metered...
- McGlockenshire 11y agoThe "this is a metered connection" toggle will only appear for wireless devices. There is no way to enable it when on a wired network. Source: Much googling after I found myself on a hotel's low-bandwidth network for a week.
- biot 11y agoEvery week I adjust my (icon bar?) settings to change the "Get Windows 10" application back to "Show only notifications". Windows keeps resetting it to "Show icons and notifications". Perhaps I should file that as a bug report.
- FilterSweep 11y agoI'm extremely disappointed that I had "turned off" my development work PCs automatic updates, however after a few weeks I found the telemetry update (KB3068708) for Windows 7 installed fully without my consent. I had "Download updates but let me choose whether to install them," selected in Windows Update for this category of update. I did not choose to install this, and I was made aware from a HN thread made a few weeks ago. The update was visible, at that time, but not installed. Now, a few weeks later, the update is on my computer. I believe the update was actually installed during an unrelated security update which I had allowed. I'm wondering if I'll have to use external scripts of my own or third party to remove the telemetry bug on my computer.
- VOYD 11y agoThat's funny, I don't see that on my two Win8 machines.