6 ms·

Stallman is a hugely influential person. He has contributed a great deal to the world of free software. And giving him an honorary degree is a great thing, dem

by reuven 11y ago

Stallman is a hugely influential person. He has contributed a great deal to the world of free software. And giving him an honorary degree is a great thing, demonstrating his many accomplishments. But it still really bugs me that he calls himself a PhD, and asks for the title "Dr." (And yes, I have a PhD, on which I worked for 11 years, at great cost to myself and my family. So feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt.) A PhD doesn't mean that you're a very accomplished person. Or a smart person. Or an influential person. It demonstrates that you know how to create, execute, analyze, document, and defend a specific research project, using the tools and vocabulary of a discipline. If a university wants to retroactively award Stallman a PhD for his research, then they should do so. I know that this has been done in the past, because a professor in my graduate program got his PhD in precisely this way -- he did amazing work, and someone said, "You know, this is worthy of a PhD." He wrote it up, and got it. It's quite possible that one or more universities would be willing to do this for Stallman. But until they do, his honorary PhD is a way of indicating their gratitude and respect for his many contributions to the world of free software. Which is great, but it's not the same as a real PhD. By the way, MIT (where I got my undergrad degree) doesn't give honorary degrees: http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees I'm rather proud of this, as well as the fact that when you graduate, you don't do so "with honors" and such. Either you finished, or you didn't.

adevine 11y ago
Yeah, as a UVA grad I didn't realize they didn't give honorary degrees, but I think their approach of giving "medals" instead is the right one. Also, even if you are Richard Stallman or Maya Angelou, demanding to be called "Dr" due to an honorary degree is just lame.
- fiatmoney 11y ago
  Demanding to be called Doctor is lame.
  - newjersey 11y ago
    But when I, as someone without a PhD, says it they will say I just don't understand.
- vacri 11y ago
  My favourite professor said that the only use for his 'Dr' was for getting a good seat table when making a reservation at a restaurant. It doesn't make your work or your opinions magically better, and there are plenty of clueless PhDs out there. Besides, demanding any honourific is lame - proof of this is in the honorifics for politicians. :)
  - steve-howard 11y ago
    I found it was useful for addressing my postdoc instructors formally when they didn't seem comfortable on a first-name basis.
  - GabrielF00 11y ago
    This discussion reminds me of an interesting story. In the South under Jim Crow, whites were very reluctant to call a black man "Mr.", which made things difficult when they had to discuss prominent people (like Booker T. Washington) who had to be addressed formally. The solution was to emphasize that person's title. "To an unfamiliar Northerner one of very interesting and somewhat amusing phases of conditions down here is the panic fear displayed over the use of "Mr." or "Mrs." No Negro is ever called Mr. or Mrs. by a white man: that would indicate social equality. A Southern white man told me with humor of his difficulties: "Now I admire Booker Washington. I regard him as a great man, and yet I couldn't call him Mr. Washington. We were all in a quandary until a doctor's degree was given him. That saved our lives! We all call him 'Dr.' Washington now." Sure enough! I don't thing I have heard him called Mr. Washington since I came down here. It is always "Dr.' or just 'Booker.' They are ready to call a Negro 'Professor' or 'Bishop' or 'The Reverend' - but not 'Mr.' https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=I+regard+him+as+a+great+man,+and+yet+I+couldn't+call+him+Mr.+Washington.&source=bl&ots=xOGfL24XW0&sig=zid1nl_f5Nh0PYo0ugHwwBhGClc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMI6Z6Zwo_GxwIVQxk-Ch3JkAOi#v=onepage&q=I%20regard%20him%20as%20a%20great%20man%2C%20and%20yet%20I%20couldn't%20call%20him%20Mr.%20Washington.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=...
    - spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
      I remember reading that this is why the late James Brown insisted on being called Mr Brown.
- cafard 11y ago
  Samuel Johnson was commonly referred to as Dr. Johnson after he got his honorary degree from Oxford. I have no idea whether he demanded to be called "Doctor" or not; I suspect the latter.
vacri 11y ago
> And yes, I have a PhD, on which I worked for 11 years, at great cost to myself and my family. Stallman's work hasn't entailed great effort, long years, and costs to himself and loved ones? As you say, a PhD is more about elbow-grease than intellect, but Stallman has that in spades - not only about the philosophy he espouses, but also that he personally created so much of the GNU environment that we take for granted these days. The work Stallman has done in his field exceeds that required of a PhD, and he has spent decades defending his thesis - and not just to experts in the field, but laypeople as well. When push comes to shove, 'doctor' functionally means 'a master the field'. Stallman definitely is that. I think if you want to argue against honorary PhDs based on workload and execution, Stallman is not someone you would want to draw attention to. Otherwise you're basically arguing that the important part is the piece of paper and the process of red-tape, not the accomplishment of mastery.
- greendestiny 11y ago
  Stallman deserves a real doctorate no doubt about that. He shouldn't be seen as the same as someone who happened to donate enough or be famous enough, he's done so much more. He shouldn't pretend he has an honour he hasn't earned either, that's just sad.
  - vacri 11y ago
    This gets back to the OP's original point, the need for a differentiation between PhDs between "My accomplishment is name recognition" and "I have done the work, I just didn't fill out out an application form first".
    - reuven 11y ago
      I'm guessing that if Stallman were to approach most universities, and say that he wants to turn his life's work into a PhD dissertation, they would welcome him with open arms. Within months, at most, he would have the PhD. He has decided not to do this. Thus, he shouldn't claim the title.
- reuven 11y ago
seanmcdirmid 11y ago
Even as a PhD, I do not want to be called doctor, nor do I call attention to it unless it is somehow relevant (which is almost never!). As you said, anyone can get a PhD if they just put in the blood and sweat, we should be judged by our accomplishments, not titles.
stdbrouw 11y ago
On the one hand it is true that a PhD has come to stand for "successfully completed an advanced research project according to the rules of the art," but surely there is something noble about judging people on their substantive contributions to the field regardless of the path that took them there. (No disagreement, of course, that giving an honorary degree to influential people simply to make the university look better is a somewhat repulsive concept.)
keithpeter 11y ago
In the UK at some universities ('redbrick' ones like Birmingham and Sheffield) it was possible to earn a Doctor of Science Degree by essentially listing research papers you had published in appropriate journals and writing a critical evaluation of your research field. It struck me that process might suit people like Stallman. The local Universities in my city award honorary degrees to College principles who sometimes don't have advanced degrees or indeed undergraduate degrees. Further Education colleges have a vocational focus here and people can come up via the vocational route, although that is rare now. The main reason for the award was so the Principal has a funny hat and cloak to wear at graduation time. No-one uses the actual title.
- pluma 11y ago
  For anyone else unfamiliar with the term "red brick": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university > Red brick university (or redbrick university) is a term originally used to refer to six civic universities founded in the major industrial cities of England. The term is now used more broadly to refer to British universities founded in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in major cities. All of the six original redbrick institutions, or their predecessor institutes, gained university status before World War I and were initially established as civic science or engineering colleges. i.e. "old" universities
  - arethuza 11y ago
    In the UK and Ireland the really old universities are sometimes referred to as "ancient": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_university https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_university
thebooktocome 11y ago
I have a PhD (in mathematics) and am conflicted about the "Dr." title. I think it ought to be reserved for medical doctors, as there is a social good associated with knowing there is a medical doctor in the general vicinity. For non-MDs, it feels like insisting on the title is petty.
- peterfirefly 11y ago
  I think medics should not be called doctors ("teachers") precisely because they don't have that degree.
  - cafard 11y ago
    At some point custom has to take over. Or shall we abolish the military rank of "lieutenant" because the officers of that rank are not ordinarily holding a place for someone?
- chrisseaton 11y ago
  Why should we accept medics stealing the meaning of a title that was created for academics? The real question is why are medics without any form of doctoral degree calling themselves 'dr'?
  - thebooktocome 11y ago
    Why should we accept that academics "stole" the meaning of a title that was created for theologians? http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=doctor http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=doctor It's a matter of custom. Customs can be changed. If I'm injured and cry out, "someone fetch a doctor!" I sincerely hope a "medic" answers the call.

by reuven 11y ago

adevine 11y ago

Yeah, as a UVA grad I didn't realize they didn't give honorary degrees, but I think their approach of giving "medals" instead is the right one. Also, even if you are Richard Stallman or Maya Angelou, demanding to be called "Dr" due to an honorary degree is just lame.

fiatmoney 11y ago
Demanding to be called Doctor is lame.
- newjersey 11y ago
  But when I, as someone without a PhD, says it they will say I just don't understand.
vacri 11y ago
My favourite professor said that the only use for his 'Dr' was for getting a good seat table when making a reservation at a restaurant. It doesn't make your work or your opinions magically better, and there are plenty of clueless PhDs out there. Besides, demanding any honourific is lame - proof of this is in the honorifics for politicians. :)
- steve-howard 11y ago
  I found it was useful for addressing my postdoc instructors formally when they didn't seem comfortable on a first-name basis.
- GabrielF00 11y ago
  This discussion reminds me of an interesting story. In the South under Jim Crow, whites were very reluctant to call a black man "Mr.", which made things difficult when they had to discuss prominent people (like Booker T. Washington) who had to be addressed formally. The solution was to emphasize that person's title. "To an unfamiliar Northerner one of very interesting and somewhat amusing phases of conditions down here is the panic fear displayed over the use of "Mr." or "Mrs." No Negro is ever called Mr. or Mrs. by a white man: that would indicate social equality. A Southern white man told me with humor of his difficulties: "Now I admire Booker Washington. I regard him as a great man, and yet I couldn't call him Mr. Washington. We were all in a quandary until a doctor's degree was given him. That saved our lives! We all call him 'Dr.' Washington now." Sure enough! I don't thing I have heard him called Mr. Washington since I came down here. It is always "Dr.' or just 'Booker.' They are ready to call a Negro 'Professor' or 'Bishop' or 'The Reverend' - but not 'Mr.' https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=I+regard+him+as+a+great+man,+and+yet+I+couldn't+call+him+Mr.+Washington.&source=bl&ots=xOGfL24XW0&sig=zid1nl_f5Nh0PYo0ugHwwBhGClc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMI6Z6Zwo_GxwIVQxk-Ch3JkAOi#v=onepage&q=I%20regard%20him%20as%20a%20great%20man%2C%20and%20yet%20I%20couldn't%20call%20him%20Mr.%20Washington.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=...
  - spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
    I remember reading that this is why the late James Brown insisted on being called Mr Brown.
cafard 11y ago
Samuel Johnson was commonly referred to as Dr. Johnson after he got his honorary degree from Oxford. I have no idea whether he demanded to be called "Doctor" or not; I suspect the latter.

vacri 11y ago

> And yes, I have a PhD, on which I worked for 11 years, at great cost to myself and my family. Stallman's work hasn't entailed great effort, long years, and costs to himself and loved ones? As you say, a PhD is more about elbow-grease than intellect, but Stallman has that in spades - not only about the philosophy he espouses, but also that he personally created so much of the GNU environment that we take for granted these days. The work Stallman has done in his field exceeds that required of a PhD, and he has spent decades defending his thesis - and not just to experts in the field, but laypeople as well. When push comes to shove, 'doctor' functionally means 'a master the field'. Stallman definitely is that. I think if you want to argue against honorary PhDs based on workload and execution, Stallman is not someone you would want to draw attention to. Otherwise you're basically arguing that the important part is the piece of paper and the process of red-tape, not the accomplishment of mastery.

greendestiny 11y ago
Stallman deserves a real doctorate no doubt about that. He shouldn't be seen as the same as someone who happened to donate enough or be famous enough, he's done so much more. He shouldn't pretend he has an honour he hasn't earned either, that's just sad.
- vacri 11y ago
  This gets back to the OP's original point, the need for a differentiation between PhDs between "My accomplishment is name recognition" and "I have done the work, I just didn't fill out out an application form first".
  - reuven 11y ago
    I'm guessing that if Stallman were to approach most universities, and say that he wants to turn his life's work into a PhD dissertation, they would welcome him with open arms. Within months, at most, he would have the PhD. He has decided not to do this. Thus, he shouldn't claim the title.
reuven 11y ago

seanmcdirmid 11y ago

Even as a PhD, I do not want to be called doctor, nor do I call attention to it unless it is somehow relevant (which is almost never!). As you said, anyone can get a PhD if they just put in the blood and sweat, we should be judged by our accomplishments, not titles.

stdbrouw 11y ago

On the one hand it is true that a PhD has come to stand for "successfully completed an advanced research project according to the rules of the art," but surely there is something noble about judging people on their substantive contributions to the field regardless of the path that took them there. (No disagreement, of course, that giving an honorary degree to influential people simply to make the university look better is a somewhat repulsive concept.)

keithpeter 11y ago

In the UK at some universities ('redbrick' ones like Birmingham and Sheffield) it was possible to earn a Doctor of Science Degree by essentially listing research papers you had published in appropriate journals and writing a critical evaluation of your research field. It struck me that process might suit people like Stallman. The local Universities in my city award honorary degrees to College principles who sometimes don't have advanced degrees or indeed undergraduate degrees. Further Education colleges have a vocational focus here and people can come up via the vocational route, although that is rare now. The main reason for the award was so the Principal has a funny hat and cloak to wear at graduation time. No-one uses the actual title.

pluma 11y ago
For anyone else unfamiliar with the term "red brick": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university > Red brick university (or redbrick university) is a term originally used to refer to six civic universities founded in the major industrial cities of England. The term is now used more broadly to refer to British universities founded in the late 19th and early 20th centuries in major cities. All of the six original redbrick institutions, or their predecessor institutes, gained university status before World War I and were initially established as civic science or engineering colleges. i.e. "old" universities
- arethuza 11y ago
  In the UK and Ireland the really old universities are sometimes referred to as "ancient": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_university https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_university

thebooktocome 11y ago

I have a PhD (in mathematics) and am conflicted about the "Dr." title. I think it ought to be reserved for medical doctors, as there is a social good associated with knowing there is a medical doctor in the general vicinity. For non-MDs, it feels like insisting on the title is petty.

peterfirefly 11y ago
I think medics should not be called doctors ("teachers") precisely because they don't have that degree.
- cafard 11y ago
  At some point custom has to take over. Or shall we abolish the military rank of "lieutenant" because the officers of that rank are not ordinarily holding a place for someone?
chrisseaton 11y ago
Why should we accept medics stealing the meaning of a title that was created for academics? The real question is why are medics without any form of doctoral degree calling themselves 'dr'?
- thebooktocome 11y ago
  Why should we accept that academics "stole" the meaning of a title that was created for theologians? http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=doctor http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=doctor It's a matter of custom. Customs can be changed. If I'm injured and cry out, "someone fetch a doctor!" I sincerely hope a "medic" answers the call.