7 ms·

There should be a distinction between an "honorary" degree awarded because a "real" one would be superfluous (Richard Stallman, Increase Mather, etc) and those

There should be a distinction between an "honorary" degree awarded because a "real" one would be superfluous (Richard Stallman, Increase Mather, etc) and those awarded because of donations or co-branding.

BrainInAJar 11y ago
Why do you think Stallman's honourary degree would be superfluous, because you like him?
- fiatmoney 11y ago
  Emacs or GCC alone are more impressive chunks of work than many Ph.D theses I've seen, if they were given a prettier write-up. But besides that, it's like giving a Th.D to St. Paul - GNU & free software in general is the reason a huge chunk of software and resulting work exists at all. An honorary degree doesn't really convey the scale of the accomplishment.
  - BrainInAJar 11y ago
    So he wrote some software that more or less copied extant software, which was well used. That's undergraduate thesis level stuff. Has he done much on the theoretical (CS/Math) side to justify an advanced degree? I'd argue not
reuven 11y ago
Stallman is a hugely influential person. He has contributed a great deal to the world of free software. And giving him an honorary degree is a great thing, demonstrating his many accomplishments. But it still really bugs me that he calls himself a PhD, and asks for the title "Dr." (And yes, I have a PhD, on which I worked for 11 years, at great cost to myself and my family. So feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt.) A PhD doesn't mean that you're a very accomplished person. Or a smart person. Or an influential person. It demonstrates that you know how to create, execute, analyze, document, and defend a specific research project, using the tools and vocabulary of a discipline. If a university wants to retroactively award Stallman a PhD for his research, then they should do so. I know that this has been done in the past, because a professor in my graduate program got his PhD in precisely this way -- he did amazing work, and someone said, "You know, this is worthy of a PhD." He wrote it up, and got it. It's quite possible that one or more universities would be willing to do this for Stallman. But until they do, his honorary PhD is a way of indicating their gratitude and respect for his many contributions to the world of free software. Which is great, but it's not the same as a real PhD. By the way, MIT (where I got my undergrad degree) doesn't give honorary degrees: http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees I'm rather proud of this, as well as the fact that when you graduate, you don't do so "with honors" and such. Either you finished, or you didn't.
- adevine 11y ago
  Yeah, as a UVA grad I didn't realize they didn't give honorary degrees, but I think their approach of giving "medals" instead is the right one. Also, even if you are Richard Stallman or Maya Angelou, demanding to be called "Dr" due to an honorary degree is just lame.
  - fiatmoney 11y ago
    Demanding to be called Doctor is lame.
    - newjersey 11y ago
      But when I, as someone without a PhD, says it they will say I just don't understand.
  - vacri 11y ago
    My favourite professor said that the only use for his 'Dr' was for getting a good seat table when making a reservation at a restaurant. It doesn't make your work or your opinions magically better, and there are plenty of clueless PhDs out there. Besides, demanding any honourific is lame - proof of this is in the honorifics for politicians. :)
    - steve-howard 11y ago
      I found it was useful for addressing my postdoc instructors formally when they didn't seem comfortable on a first-name basis.
    - GabrielF00 11y ago
      This discussion reminds me of an interesting story. In the South under Jim Crow, whites were very reluctant to call a black man "Mr.", which made things difficult when they had to discuss prominent people (like Booker T. Washington) who had to be addressed formally. The solution was to emphasize that person's title. "To an unfamiliar Northerner one of very interesting and somewhat amusing phases of conditions down here is the panic fear displayed over the use of "Mr." or "Mrs." No Negro is ever called Mr. or Mrs. by a white man: that would indicate social equality. A Southern white man told me with humor of his difficulties: "Now I admire Booker Washington. I regard him as a great man, and yet I couldn't call him Mr. Washington. We were all in a quandary until a doctor's degree was given him. That saved our lives! We all call him 'Dr.' Washington now." Sure enough! I don't thing I have heard him called Mr. Washington since I came down here. It is always "Dr.' or just 'Booker.' They are ready to call a Negro 'Professor' or 'Bishop' or 'The Reverend' - but not 'Mr.' https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=I+regard+him+as+a+great+man,+and+yet+I+couldn't+call+him+Mr.+Washington.&source=bl&ots=xOGfL24XW0&sig=zid1nl_f5Nh0PYo0ugHwwBhGClc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMI6Z6Zwo_GxwIVQxk-Ch3JkAOi#v=onepage&q=I%20regard%20him%20as%20a%20great%20man%2C%20and%20yet%20I%20couldn't%20call%20him%20Mr.%20Washington.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=...
Mr24601 11y ago
Isn't it fairly well accepted that 90% of PhD thesis will never be referenced or for the most part looked at again? Seems like an unworthy thing to get up on a high horse over.

BrainInAJar 11y ago

Why do you think Stallman's honourary degree would be superfluous, because you like him?

fiatmoney 11y ago
Emacs or GCC alone are more impressive chunks of work than many Ph.D theses I've seen, if they were given a prettier write-up. But besides that, it's like giving a Th.D to St. Paul - GNU & free software in general is the reason a huge chunk of software and resulting work exists at all. An honorary degree doesn't really convey the scale of the accomplishment.
- BrainInAJar 11y ago
  So he wrote some software that more or less copied extant software, which was well used. That's undergraduate thesis level stuff. Has he done much on the theoretical (CS/Math) side to justify an advanced degree? I'd argue not

reuven 11y ago

Stallman is a hugely influential person. He has contributed a great deal to the world of free software. And giving him an honorary degree is a great thing, demonstrating his many accomplishments. But it still really bugs me that he calls himself a PhD, and asks for the title "Dr." (And yes, I have a PhD, on which I worked for 11 years, at great cost to myself and my family. So feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt.) A PhD doesn't mean that you're a very accomplished person. Or a smart person. Or an influential person. It demonstrates that you know how to create, execute, analyze, document, and defend a specific research project, using the tools and vocabulary of a discipline. If a university wants to retroactively award Stallman a PhD for his research, then they should do so. I know that this has been done in the past, because a professor in my graduate program got his PhD in precisely this way -- he did amazing work, and someone said, "You know, this is worthy of a PhD." He wrote it up, and got it. It's quite possible that one or more universities would be willing to do this for Stallman. But until they do, his honorary PhD is a way of indicating their gratitude and respect for his many contributions to the world of free software. Which is great, but it's not the same as a real PhD. By the way, MIT (where I got my undergrad degree) doesn't give honorary degrees: http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees http://news.mit.edu/2001/commdegrees I'm rather proud of this, as well as the fact that when you graduate, you don't do so "with honors" and such. Either you finished, or you didn't.

adevine 11y ago
Yeah, as a UVA grad I didn't realize they didn't give honorary degrees, but I think their approach of giving "medals" instead is the right one. Also, even if you are Richard Stallman or Maya Angelou, demanding to be called "Dr" due to an honorary degree is just lame.
- fiatmoney 11y ago
  Demanding to be called Doctor is lame.
  - newjersey 11y ago
    But when I, as someone without a PhD, says it they will say I just don't understand.
- vacri 11y ago
  My favourite professor said that the only use for his 'Dr' was for getting a good seat table when making a reservation at a restaurant. It doesn't make your work or your opinions magically better, and there are plenty of clueless PhDs out there. Besides, demanding any honourific is lame - proof of this is in the honorifics for politicians. :)
  - steve-howard 11y ago
    I found it was useful for addressing my postdoc instructors formally when they didn't seem comfortable on a first-name basis.
  - GabrielF00 11y ago
    This discussion reminds me of an interesting story. In the South under Jim Crow, whites were very reluctant to call a black man "Mr.", which made things difficult when they had to discuss prominent people (like Booker T. Washington) who had to be addressed formally. The solution was to emphasize that person's title. "To an unfamiliar Northerner one of very interesting and somewhat amusing phases of conditions down here is the panic fear displayed over the use of "Mr." or "Mrs." No Negro is ever called Mr. or Mrs. by a white man: that would indicate social equality. A Southern white man told me with humor of his difficulties: "Now I admire Booker Washington. I regard him as a great man, and yet I couldn't call him Mr. Washington. We were all in a quandary until a doctor's degree was given him. That saved our lives! We all call him 'Dr.' Washington now." Sure enough! I don't thing I have heard him called Mr. Washington since I came down here. It is always "Dr.' or just 'Booker.' They are ready to call a Negro 'Professor' or 'Bishop' or 'The Reverend' - but not 'Mr.' https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=I+regard+him+as+a+great+man,+and+yet+I+couldn't+call+him+Mr.+Washington.&source=bl&ots=xOGfL24XW0&sig=zid1nl_f5Nh0PYo0ugHwwBhGClc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMI6Z6Zwo_GxwIVQxk-Ch3JkAOi#v=onepage&q=I%20regard%20him%20as%20a%20great%20man%2C%20and%20yet%20I%20couldn't%20call%20him%20Mr.%20Washington.&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=QsLQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA148&lpg=...

Mr24601 11y ago

Isn't it fairly well accepted that 90% of PhD thesis will never be referenced or for the most part looked at again? Seems like an unworthy thing to get up on a high horse over.