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> The company has created a series of courses that add up to mini-degrees that students can earn quickly, and pay a small fee to certify that they successfully

by tboyd47 11y ago

> The company has created a series of courses that add up to mini-degrees that students can earn quickly, and pay a small fee to certify that they successfully completed them. “It’s mostly people in their 20s and 30s who are interested in learning more skills and making themselves prepared for better jobs,” said Mr. Levin. Has anyone else noticed that since this recent pivot, the quality of Coursera's classes have declined? I recently tried a course hosted on Coursera from an Ivy League school, as part of a business "specialization" that consists of 4 classes at $90 each. The class was 4 weeks long and was taught by 3 different professors. The only material provided was a series of video lectures (10-20 5-minute lectures per professor) and a smattering of blog posts and news articles for optional reading. There was some discussion in the forums that the lectures seemed to jump around, and didn't cover all the material represented in the final exam. Some previous students were guessing that the gaps in instruction were because the course used to be 9 weeks long before they started charging for it. I enjoyed the class but didn't feel like I got my money's worth. In the end I decided I could get more value by just buying and reading books on business development on my own.

snake117 11y ago
Honestly, I think that's the best way to learn. A lot of great programmers/entrepreneurs end up taking an autodidactic approach to learning whatever they need to learn to become successful. I always use Sean Parker as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Parker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Parker I don't buy into the belief that the only way to learn something is by taking a course or getting a degree. I can buy the same programming book or the same physiology textbook used in a course and read it on my own. The only problem is that, unless you really do something outstanding to prove that you know the material, its not something you can put on an application/resume.
- rndn 11y ago
  I think a difficulty with this approach is that a textbook often contains more information than you actually need. In that regard a class is better because you have more guidance. The best way is possibly to look through the syllabi of classes at various top universities to get an idea of what is important.
  - hackuser 11y ago
    Also, a textbook doesn't have everything you need, and knowledge and technology change; there's no substitute for a human with expertise.
- bunderbunder 11y ago
  It depends on what you're learning. I wouldn't want to waste my time on a class that just teaches you how to use Hadoop. On the other hand, there are some topics that I'd have a much harder time believing can be treated well outside a classroom setting. Classes that deal with softer skills such as project management strategy or research design really seem to benefit quite a bit from the group learning environment. You could certainly learn them other ways, but probably more slowly. If you're trying to build a career there's an opportunity cost there.
  - atmosx 11y ago
    It is okay for CS classes, but not for chemistry...
- jimbokun 11y ago
  "The only problem is that, unless you really do something outstanding to prove that you know the material, its not something you can put on an application/resume." Which is why the Education industry is really the Accreditation industry.
bunderbunder 11y ago
I've only taken a couple courses from one of these mini-degrees. I did feel like the quality was iffy, but I don't feel like I've seen enough to make a call on whether the problem was the instructor or the mini-degree. The main problem was that the course was unfocused and rushed. It felt like the instructor was trying to touch on every single thing a person might learn over the course of a graduate level course. But since the class was shorter both in terms of number of weeks and time students could be expected to spend on any one week, it just resulted in a lot of very shallow treatment of an immense number of topics. Some lectures were barely more than a recitation of paper titles.
- tboyd47 11y ago
  Agreed. The courses seem to lack depth. And the video-only method of instruction makes it feel like an infomercial. It's a shame, because the Coursera platform has a lot of potential. Andrew Ng's machine learning course was as good as a real university course. To be fair, the specialization I was on included a final project which could have been cool.
  - bunderbunder 11y ago
    Yeah, the video-only thing is problematic. But I think they're stuck there. If you're having a hard time convincing students to pay $50 for the class, can you really ask them to buy a $200 textbook?
    - tboyd47 11y ago
      Fair point. I just don't think they've found product-market fit yet. Before, they were giving too little value to the schools, and now they're giving too little to the students. Maybe if they switched to selling textbooks and bundle the video course with the textbook. I would never go out and buy a $200 textbook to something I have no foundation in, but if I'm getting a video course with it, maybe.
    - sanderjd 11y ago
      I think the "only" part isn't referring so much to the exclusion of a textbook as the exclusion of projects and exercises. Videos and textbooks are both too passive. The biggest issue with MOOCs in 2015 is the relative lack of active engagement with the material through checked exercises and with teachers, tutors, mentors, and peers through one-on-one engagement (whether in person or via phone or chat) rather than one-to-many forums. Both issues are more expensive to solve, but I'm disappointed that Coursera hasn't used their paid courses to attack them. I suspect that the price of those courses isn't high enough to justify it. I think that while we've added a couple educational tiers above reading books and articles on one's own, we're still missing one or more between paid MOOCs and "real" higher education.
a2tech 11y ago
If you want to see a well done business class, check out these classes from the University of Michigan (disclaimer-my wife was involved in the creation): https://www.coursera.org/specialization/valuation/45 https://www.coursera.org/specialization/valuation/45
dhawalhs 11y ago
We launched yesterday reviews for modern day credentials like Specializations and Nanodegrees to tackle this problem. Sorta like 'Credentialing the credentials'. It can be found here: https://www.class-central.com/certificate https://www.class-central.com/certificate It still early but this might help potential students get a sense of quality of the credential before hand.
- riffraff 11y ago
  OT, but let me mention this: the contrast of white on blue on this page is so strong it made me close it.
- binarysolo 11y ago
  Meant as constructive criticism: the page is really blue... kinda an eyestrain -- have you considered going for more readability-friendly colors? edit: just saw the other comment -- yeah, same dealie
riffraff 11y ago
I think I did some classes of the data science nanodegree (forgive me for not remembering the exact name) and I found the quality to be on par with other courses. But having taken a dozen of them on coursera, I feel there isn't really a standard that is declining, it's just that some classes are fantastic, some not very much so, and it has been like this since the beginning.
minthd 11y ago
I often noticed that some books are phenomenal, and don't really have a mooc, but should definetly have something. I wonder if there's a place for a site that: 1. Gathers recommendations the best book on a given subject + some set of practice material 2. Helps to forum study groups or classes, gives them forum/hangouts,etc,offer some structure, etc 3. Enables P2P grading by students Basically ,helps as much as it's possibly can for students to form great classes around great books. What do you guys think ?
- tboyd47 11y ago
  I think it's a neat idea. This thread has got me thinking too. Email me at p2peducationideahn@gmail.com if you want to brainstorm.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- rokhayakebe 11y ago
  I prefer for something like this before paying for online classes: a curriculum to learn on my own, a peer group for feedback, and a mentor for guidance. The problem is there are many things I want to learn and I may be willing to invest 40 hours in one week to get the required knowledge instead of having to wait 3 hours * 8 weeks.

by tboyd47 11y ago

snake117 11y ago

Honestly, I think that's the best way to learn. A lot of great programmers/entrepreneurs end up taking an autodidactic approach to learning whatever they need to learn to become successful. I always use Sean Parker as an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Parker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Parker I don't buy into the belief that the only way to learn something is by taking a course or getting a degree. I can buy the same programming book or the same physiology textbook used in a course and read it on my own. The only problem is that, unless you really do something outstanding to prove that you know the material, its not something you can put on an application/resume.

rndn 11y ago
I think a difficulty with this approach is that a textbook often contains more information than you actually need. In that regard a class is better because you have more guidance. The best way is possibly to look through the syllabi of classes at various top universities to get an idea of what is important.
- hackuser 11y ago
  Also, a textbook doesn't have everything you need, and knowledge and technology change; there's no substitute for a human with expertise.
bunderbunder 11y ago
It depends on what you're learning. I wouldn't want to waste my time on a class that just teaches you how to use Hadoop. On the other hand, there are some topics that I'd have a much harder time believing can be treated well outside a classroom setting. Classes that deal with softer skills such as project management strategy or research design really seem to benefit quite a bit from the group learning environment. You could certainly learn them other ways, but probably more slowly. If you're trying to build a career there's an opportunity cost there.
- atmosx 11y ago
  It is okay for CS classes, but not for chemistry...
jimbokun 11y ago
"The only problem is that, unless you really do something outstanding to prove that you know the material, its not something you can put on an application/resume." Which is why the Education industry is really the Accreditation industry.

bunderbunder 11y ago

I've only taken a couple courses from one of these mini-degrees. I did feel like the quality was iffy, but I don't feel like I've seen enough to make a call on whether the problem was the instructor or the mini-degree. The main problem was that the course was unfocused and rushed. It felt like the instructor was trying to touch on every single thing a person might learn over the course of a graduate level course. But since the class was shorter both in terms of number of weeks and time students could be expected to spend on any one week, it just resulted in a lot of very shallow treatment of an immense number of topics. Some lectures were barely more than a recitation of paper titles.

tboyd47 11y ago
Agreed. The courses seem to lack depth. And the video-only method of instruction makes it feel like an infomercial. It's a shame, because the Coursera platform has a lot of potential. Andrew Ng's machine learning course was as good as a real university course. To be fair, the specialization I was on included a final project which could have been cool.
- bunderbunder 11y ago
  Yeah, the video-only thing is problematic. But I think they're stuck there. If you're having a hard time convincing students to pay $50 for the class, can you really ask them to buy a $200 textbook?
  - tboyd47 11y ago
    Fair point. I just don't think they've found product-market fit yet. Before, they were giving too little value to the schools, and now they're giving too little to the students. Maybe if they switched to selling textbooks and bundle the video course with the textbook. I would never go out and buy a $200 textbook to something I have no foundation in, but if I'm getting a video course with it, maybe.
  - sanderjd 11y ago
    I think the "only" part isn't referring so much to the exclusion of a textbook as the exclusion of projects and exercises. Videos and textbooks are both too passive. The biggest issue with MOOCs in 2015 is the relative lack of active engagement with the material through checked exercises and with teachers, tutors, mentors, and peers through one-on-one engagement (whether in person or via phone or chat) rather than one-to-many forums. Both issues are more expensive to solve, but I'm disappointed that Coursera hasn't used their paid courses to attack them. I suspect that the price of those courses isn't high enough to justify it. I think that while we've added a couple educational tiers above reading books and articles on one's own, we're still missing one or more between paid MOOCs and "real" higher education.

a2tech 11y ago

If you want to see a well done business class, check out these classes from the University of Michigan (disclaimer-my wife was involved in the creation): https://www.coursera.org/specialization/valuation/45 https://www.coursera.org/specialization/valuation/45

dhawalhs 11y ago

We launched yesterday reviews for modern day credentials like Specializations and Nanodegrees to tackle this problem. Sorta like 'Credentialing the credentials'. It can be found here: https://www.class-central.com/certificate https://www.class-central.com/certificate It still early but this might help potential students get a sense of quality of the credential before hand.

riffraff 11y ago
OT, but let me mention this: the contrast of white on blue on this page is so strong it made me close it.
binarysolo 11y ago
Meant as constructive criticism: the page is really blue... kinda an eyestrain -- have you considered going for more readability-friendly colors? edit: just saw the other comment -- yeah, same dealie

riffraff 11y ago

I think I did some classes of the data science nanodegree (forgive me for not remembering the exact name) and I found the quality to be on par with other courses. But having taken a dozen of them on coursera, I feel there isn't really a standard that is declining, it's just that some classes are fantastic, some not very much so, and it has been like this since the beginning.

minthd 11y ago

I often noticed that some books are phenomenal, and don't really have a mooc, but should definetly have something. I wonder if there's a place for a site that: 1. Gathers recommendations the best book on a given subject + some set of practice material 2. Helps to forum study groups or classes, gives them forum/hangouts,etc,offer some structure, etc 3. Enables P2P grading by students Basically ,helps as much as it's possibly can for students to form great classes around great books. What do you guys think ?

tboyd47 11y ago
I think it's a neat idea. This thread has got me thinking too. Email me at p2peducationideahn@gmail.com if you want to brainstorm.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
rokhayakebe 11y ago
I prefer for something like this before paying for online classes: a curriculum to learn on my own, a peer group for feedback, and a mentor for guidance. The problem is there are many things I want to learn and I may be willing to invest 40 hours in one week to get the required knowledge instead of having to wait 3 hours * 8 weeks.