6 ms·

With $100M in Funding, Carbon3D Will Make 3D Manufacturing a Reality

58 points by falcor84 11y ago

jglauche 11y ago
Wow, that's a lot of funding for just another resin 3d printer. We have had printers like Form1 in the low-cost segment. I'm surprised about the funding amount, as the market is currently very very stagnating.
- webXL 11y ago
  I dunno. Seems about right these days for the "cool" factor. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." That video looked pretty magical to me.
  - mcphage 11y ago
    > That video looked pretty magical to me. Is that the first resin-based printer you've seen? Because I agree, they look pretty cool. But this one doesn't look particularly different, just faster.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- hanniabu 11y ago
  Their method of manufacturing is different than others. It makes the process faster, allows for greater detail, eliminated the issue of having layers which weakens the structure, and it allows for much more complex designs without the need for temporary structures. I think their funding is well placed and will indeed give the 3d printing industry a shake up on the consumer market.
  - mcphage 11y ago
    Different from other resin printers? It doesn't seem different than them, at least from this material.
    - 542458 11y ago
      That's the impression I get. It's certainly better than traditional SLA, but still maintains all of SLA's major disadvantages (material/consumable/machine cost, low speed, resin smell/fumes/toxicity, general mess, part decay/degradation over time, limited materials). The tech might take over the SLA space, but I doubt they'll take a significant bite out of other printing processes.
      - Veedrac 11y ago
        > low speed This is one of the primary things they advertise most improvement on. Their graphic[1] shows massive speed increases. I don't know about most of the things you've mentioned, but it also looks like it provides far higher quality output than other products, given that it uses continuous deposition and the projector is precise enough to form smooth curved surfaces. [1] http://3dprinting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Carbon3D-CLIP-ultra-fast-3d-printing-2.png http://3dprinting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Carbon3D-CL...
        542458 11y ago
        Whoops, you're right - it does have speed benefits. That said, I really doubt that chart they're showing off. I know our SLA machines could print something significantly larger than the maximum object size on the Carbon3D machine in less than the 11.5 hours they list. I would like it see what the actual test case is.
        Veedrac 11y ago
        I don't know what the test case is, but going from the article[1], at 100µm layers it prints at 500 mm/hour. Form 1+ claims 10 to 30 mm/hour at this resolution, so Carbon3D is 20-50 times the speed. That puts Form 1+ about 2-3 times as good as the graph suggests. CLIP (Carbon3D's name for their tech) isn't layer-rate limited, but cure-rate limited so the comparison isn't quite fair. [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228/1349.abstract http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228/1349.abstract (free access if you sign up for an account)
- sciencedangyou 11y ago
  You do realize they were on the cover of Science Magazine? I don't understand how people think there is nothing technically new here when one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed journals in the world features your paper on its front page.... http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228.cover-expansion http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228.cover-expansion
  - dekhn 11y ago
    There is a trite, but not completely inaccurate statement about Science: if it gets published there, it's likely to be sexy and wrong.
MechSkep 11y ago
Very hype heavy article. No mention of Form Labs who is already on the market with a similar product.
Xixi 11y ago
“This is the first 3D printing tech that really has the potential to break out of the prototyping realm that 3D printing has been relegated to until now” Nope. 3D printing has been there for quite a while already: it is being used quite massively in the aerospace industry, and not for prototyping...
- exacube 11y ago
  examples / links?
  - 542458 11y ago
    "The Boeing company has been utilizing SLS for flight hardware in regular production since 2002, for both military and commercial programs" http://www.naefrontiers.org/File.aspx?id=31590 http://www.naefrontiers.org/File.aspx?id=31590
  - michaelt 11y ago
    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-07/12/3d-printed-plane-by-2050 http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-07/12/3d-printed-pl... "Airbus plans to have 3D printed components in the cabins of its A380s by the end of 2012. Its Eurofighter Typhoon military jet already has some internal 3D printed components." Of course, those might be comparatively boring parts, like radio covers and plastic ducting. You won't be able to 3D print a working jet fighter in your garage for at least 5 years, maybe more :)
    - evgen 11y ago
      Those are also low-value, low-volume parts. 3D printing works for minor components when you are only building a couple of hundred planes a year, but the 3D parts themselves have almost no value whatsoever compared to the final product.
  - Xixi 11y ago
    Over 1,000 parts of the A350XWB are 3d printed using a specific resin (called ULTEM 9085) with interesting properties for the purpose of building an airliner: it's light, strong, and FST (flame, smoke, and toxicity) compliant. [1] Replying to another post, it might not be very high volume, but it certainly isn't prototyping: it's in production in a very heavily regulated sector. More impressive to me than mass producing for example 10,000,000 key holders a month. [1] http://3dprint.com/63169/airbus-a350-xwb-3d-print/ http://3dprint.com/63169/airbus-a350-xwb-3d-print/
dankohn1 11y ago
I like this 1.5 minute video on the technology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3TgmvV2ElQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3TgmvV2ElQ Whether the economics ultimately work or not, it's an incredibly compelling demo.
kejaed 11y ago
There is a TED talk by one of the founders with a little bit more detail on what makes their printer different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihR9SX7dgRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihR9SX7dgRo
- pp19dd 11y ago
  Thanks for sharing that. I've seen various demos (speed-accelerated videos) of this before, and this was the first time I've seen it in realtime, happening on the stage. It really... does look real.
chockablock 11y ago
The previous HN discussion has some nice links to published articles on the tech, and good discussion about the advantages of their approach over traditional layer-based stereolithography (including e.g. Form Labs). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9215890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9215890
sschueller 11y ago
Isn't a problem with these resin printers that the resin is quite toxic as well as the fumes? Also I think there needs to be some post chemical processing.
- 542458 11y ago
  Yes (to be fair, it is getting better as better formulations are developed). Additionally, resin is expensive and the parts degrade and become brittle and fragile over time. Their innovation is very cool, but it won't be displacing FDM any time soon.
minthd 11y ago
Is there any way for this technology to do multi-material or multi-color prints ? how ?
- deadbeef404 11y ago
  I have no idea if it's possible, but I could imagine maybe a multi-frequency light source where each frequency interacts with a unique color molecule in the resin to mix colors individually?
slrelevant 11y ago
There is an Australian company making something similar. http://www.gizmo3dprinters.com.au/ http://www.gizmo3dprinters.com.au/ They expect to launch their kickstarter project by end of year.
dmritard96 11y ago
Its crazy as just a few months ago the thesis convergance for much of Silicon Valley was that investing in 3D printing was very much 2014...Sure this one has faster builds but given that they aren't first movers and have substantial competition, it's surprising to see so much capitol being pumped in. Perhaps stratesys or one of the other big guys will want in so the investment makes sense?
ErikRogneby 11y ago
Anyone have more info on the different materials the article mentions? on the carbon3d.com website they have a couple short clips about elastic or durable, but that is about it.
grondilu 11y ago
> Instead of using steel to build certain high-strength components of an airplane, for instance, Carbon3D would be able to 3D print a lightweight alternative by shaping plastic into a form previously impossible to manufacture. This is what I'm most curious about. More specifically, I wonder if Carbon3D's device could be used for something similar to what Julia Greer is working on at Caltech (the nanotruss materials).
phkahler 11y ago
This could be really good for optimized lattice structures: http://www.altair.com/newsdetail.aspx?news_id=11109&news_country=en-US http://www.altair.com/newsdetail.aspx?news_id=11109&news_cou...
hockeybias 11y ago
It is already a reality and has been for some time. Minnesota-based Protolabs.com has been making prototypes AND 'finished products' based on CAD/CAM files using CNC machining and plastic injection molding for more than a decade. ProtoLabs has manufacturing sites in the US, UK, and Japan. Its customers can choose to have objects made from various resins, metals, and silicone rubber. ProtoLabs purchased FineLine.com a year ago and now also offers 3D printing services. I've done some consulting for Proto Labs.
Animats 11y ago
Basically, it's another SLA printer, but they use an improved chemistry to speed up the process. Autodesk, which now builds a 3D SLA printer for about $5000, has been experimenting with chemistries in that area.[1] They give more info about the materials used and the results. [1] http://www.instructables.com/id/Continuous-Top-Down-DLP-Experiments/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Continuous-Top-Down-DLP-Expe...

58 points by falcor84 11y ago

Wow, that's a lot of funding for just another resin 3d printer. We have had printers like Form1 in the low-cost segment. I'm surprised about the funding amount, as the market is currently very very stagnating.

webXL 11y ago
I dunno. Seems about right these days for the "cool" factor. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." That video looked pretty magical to me.
- mcphage 11y ago
  > That video looked pretty magical to me. Is that the first resin-based printer you've seen? Because I agree, they look pretty cool. But this one doesn't look particularly different, just faster.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
hanniabu 11y ago
Their method of manufacturing is different than others. It makes the process faster, allows for greater detail, eliminated the issue of having layers which weakens the structure, and it allows for much more complex designs without the need for temporary structures. I think their funding is well placed and will indeed give the 3d printing industry a shake up on the consumer market.
- mcphage 11y ago
  Different from other resin printers? It doesn't seem different than them, at least from this material.
  - 542458 11y ago
    That's the impression I get. It's certainly better than traditional SLA, but still maintains all of SLA's major disadvantages (material/consumable/machine cost, low speed, resin smell/fumes/toxicity, general mess, part decay/degradation over time, limited materials). The tech might take over the SLA space, but I doubt they'll take a significant bite out of other printing processes.
    - Veedrac 11y ago
      > low speed This is one of the primary things they advertise most improvement on. Their graphic[1] shows massive speed increases. I don't know about most of the things you've mentioned, but it also looks like it provides far higher quality output than other products, given that it uses continuous deposition and the projector is precise enough to form smooth curved surfaces. [1] http://3dprinting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Carbon3D-CLIP-ultra-fast-3d-printing-2.png http://3dprinting.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Carbon3D-CL...
      - 542458 11y ago
        Whoops, you're right - it does have speed benefits. That said, I really doubt that chart they're showing off. I know our SLA machines could print something significantly larger than the maximum object size on the Carbon3D machine in less than the 11.5 hours they list. I would like it see what the actual test case is.
        Veedrac 11y ago
        I don't know what the test case is, but going from the article[1], at 100µm layers it prints at 500 mm/hour. Form 1+ claims 10 to 30 mm/hour at this resolution, so Carbon3D is 20-50 times the speed. That puts Form 1+ about 2-3 times as good as the graph suggests. CLIP (Carbon3D's name for their tech) isn't layer-rate limited, but cure-rate limited so the comparison isn't quite fair. [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228/1349.abstract http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228/1349.abstract (free access if you sign up for an account)
sciencedangyou 11y ago
You do realize they were on the cover of Science Magazine? I don't understand how people think there is nothing technically new here when one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed journals in the world features your paper on its front page.... http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228.cover-expansion http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228.cover-expansion
- dekhn 11y ago
  There is a trite, but not completely inaccurate statement about Science: if it gets published there, it's likely to be sexy and wrong.

MechSkep 11y ago

Very hype heavy article. No mention of Form Labs who is already on the market with a similar product.

Xixi 11y ago

“This is the first 3D printing tech that really has the potential to break out of the prototyping realm that 3D printing has been relegated to until now” Nope. 3D printing has been there for quite a while already: it is being used quite massively in the aerospace industry, and not for prototyping...

exacube 11y ago
examples / links?
- 542458 11y ago
  "The Boeing company has been utilizing SLS for flight hardware in regular production since 2002, for both military and commercial programs" http://www.naefrontiers.org/File.aspx?id=31590 http://www.naefrontiers.org/File.aspx?id=31590
- michaelt 11y ago
  http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-07/12/3d-printed-plane-by-2050 http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-07/12/3d-printed-pl... "Airbus plans to have 3D printed components in the cabins of its A380s by the end of 2012. Its Eurofighter Typhoon military jet already has some internal 3D printed components." Of course, those might be comparatively boring parts, like radio covers and plastic ducting. You won't be able to 3D print a working jet fighter in your garage for at least 5 years, maybe more :)
  - evgen 11y ago
    Those are also low-value, low-volume parts. 3D printing works for minor components when you are only building a couple of hundred planes a year, but the 3D parts themselves have almost no value whatsoever compared to the final product.
- Xixi 11y ago
  Over 1,000 parts of the A350XWB are 3d printed using a specific resin (called ULTEM 9085) with interesting properties for the purpose of building an airliner: it's light, strong, and FST (flame, smoke, and toxicity) compliant. [1] Replying to another post, it might not be very high volume, but it certainly isn't prototyping: it's in production in a very heavily regulated sector. More impressive to me than mass producing for example 10,000,000 key holders a month. [1] http://3dprint.com/63169/airbus-a350-xwb-3d-print/ http://3dprint.com/63169/airbus-a350-xwb-3d-print/

dankohn1 11y ago

I like this 1.5 minute video on the technology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3TgmvV2ElQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3TgmvV2ElQ Whether the economics ultimately work or not, it's an incredibly compelling demo.

kejaed 11y ago

There is a TED talk by one of the founders with a little bit more detail on what makes their printer different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihR9SX7dgRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihR9SX7dgRo

pp19dd 11y ago
Thanks for sharing that. I've seen various demos (speed-accelerated videos) of this before, and this was the first time I've seen it in realtime, happening on the stage. It really... does look real.

chockablock 11y ago

The previous HN discussion has some nice links to published articles on the tech, and good discussion about the advantages of their approach over traditional layer-based stereolithography (including e.g. Form Labs). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9215890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9215890

sschueller 11y ago

Isn't a problem with these resin printers that the resin is quite toxic as well as the fumes? Also I think there needs to be some post chemical processing.

542458 11y ago
Yes (to be fair, it is getting better as better formulations are developed). Additionally, resin is expensive and the parts degrade and become brittle and fragile over time. Their innovation is very cool, but it won't be displacing FDM any time soon.

minthd 11y ago

Is there any way for this technology to do multi-material or multi-color prints ? how ?

deadbeef404 11y ago
I have no idea if it's possible, but I could imagine maybe a multi-frequency light source where each frequency interacts with a unique color molecule in the resin to mix colors individually?

slrelevant 11y ago

There is an Australian company making something similar. http://www.gizmo3dprinters.com.au/ http://www.gizmo3dprinters.com.au/ They expect to launch their kickstarter project by end of year.

dmritard96 11y ago

Its crazy as just a few months ago the thesis convergance for much of Silicon Valley was that investing in 3D printing was very much 2014...Sure this one has faster builds but given that they aren't first movers and have substantial competition, it's surprising to see so much capitol being pumped in. Perhaps stratesys or one of the other big guys will want in so the investment makes sense?

ErikRogneby 11y ago

Anyone have more info on the different materials the article mentions? on the carbon3d.com website they have a couple short clips about elastic or durable, but that is about it.

grondilu 11y ago

> Instead of using steel to build certain high-strength components of an airplane, for instance, Carbon3D would be able to 3D print a lightweight alternative by shaping plastic into a form previously impossible to manufacture. This is what I'm most curious about. More specifically, I wonder if Carbon3D's device could be used for something similar to what Julia Greer is working on at Caltech (the nanotruss materials).

phkahler 11y ago

This could be really good for optimized lattice structures: http://www.altair.com/newsdetail.aspx?news_id=11109&news_country=en-US http://www.altair.com/newsdetail.aspx?news_id=11109&news_cou...

hockeybias 11y ago

It is already a reality and has been for some time. Minnesota-based Protolabs.com has been making prototypes AND 'finished products' based on CAD/CAM files using CNC machining and plastic injection molding for more than a decade. ProtoLabs has manufacturing sites in the US, UK, and Japan. Its customers can choose to have objects made from various resins, metals, and silicone rubber. ProtoLabs purchased FineLine.com a year ago and now also offers 3D printing services. I've done some consulting for Proto Labs.

Animats 11y ago

Basically, it's another SLA printer, but they use an improved chemistry to speed up the process. Autodesk, which now builds a 3D SLA printer for about $5000, has been experimenting with chemistries in that area.[1] They give more info about the materials used and the results. [1] http://www.instructables.com/id/Continuous-Top-Down-DLP-Experiments/ http://www.instructables.com/id/Continuous-Top-Down-DLP-Expe...