4 ms·

One thing I have learned from my wonderful partner is stories like this can be incredibly alienating to women who don't fit into them. For example, the "all wo

One thing I have learned from my wonderful partner is stories like this can be incredibly alienating to women who don't fit into them. For example, the "all women get catcalled" - my partner notes that since she never gets catcalled, she must be too ugly. So what about the women who have an entirely different kind of experience? This article is a classic: https://medium.com/@maradydd/okay-feminism-its-time-we-had-a-talk-about-empathy-bd6321c66b37 https://medium.com/@maradydd/okay-feminism-its-time-we-had-a...

untog 11y ago
Is the implication here that we shouldn't let women tell any stories unless their experience is an utterly universal one experienced by every woman? Just seems like a way to derail a worthwhile project like this. It is clearly collecting a wide variety of stories, and IMO that's worthwhile. After all, minorities - by definition - don't have universal experiences, but surely they're still worth telling?
- crindy 11y ago
  I thought the poster just wanted people to avoid generalizing. "All women get catcalled" isn't okay, but "I often get catcalled" is fine.
  - nostrebored 11y ago
    I think this would be fine, if more people were talking about it. My fiancee phrasing things in a way like "I often get catcalled" frequently gets derailed by people saying what the OP here mentioned. And at that point the discussion does get shut down, because if she does mention that most of her friends have the same experience, the implication does come up. Depending on where you live, and what you do in your day, attractive women do get cat called. A lot. An upsetting amount, and just because it's not a universal doesn't make the derailing okay either. I'm sure that people saying this don't mean to derail, just as people mentioning the catcalling don't intend it as an insult, but it does shut down conversation.
- Confusion 11y ago
  Is the implication here that ryanobjc's partner can't tell the story of how alienating these stories are to her, because that would be derailing a worthwhile project? In fact, is the implication here that any story that is not in harmony with such a project's goals may immediately be shot down as 'derailing', without addressing the actual concerns or criticism at all? That is how you get groupthink and echo chambers.
normloman 11y ago
That's why there are multiple stories. So someone reading can see the whole range of women's experience in technology. I'm sure there will be some good, some bad.
jonnybgood 11y ago
You're correct. Something else that's noticable here is that they're all white women.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Mz 11y ago
  Just a quick preview of one video indicates they aren't all white. A lot are, but not all.
  - michaelmrose 11y ago
    You mean the demographics of the videos match the actual demographics of tech companies shocking
crimsonalucard 11y ago
The page presents multiple stories from multiple perspectives to try to cover all experiences. From looking at the pictures, I'm positive at least one of the women on the front page probably doesn't get catcalled either, so your partner is covered. Another thing I don't like about this page is that they are only focusing on Software Engineering as if it represents the entire world of "Technology" aka "Tech." I'll have you know, there's a lot of "Technology" in the kitchen as well. For example: dishwasher and microwave.
lambda 11y ago
> "all women get catcalled" Which one of these videos did that quote come from? I haven't watched them all, but I didn't see it in the few that I watched. > So what about the women who have an entirely different kind of experience? Just because some women have different experiences doesn't mean that there aren't real problems that other women face. For instance, if I have never been a victim of mugging, that doesn't mean that mugging is still not a problem. And hey, I live in a city; so should I say that we should stop talking about problems with urban violence just because I haven't personally been subjected to it?

untog 11y ago

Is the implication here that we shouldn't let women tell any stories unless their experience is an utterly universal one experienced by every woman? Just seems like a way to derail a worthwhile project like this. It is clearly collecting a wide variety of stories, and IMO that's worthwhile. After all, minorities - by definition - don't have universal experiences, but surely they're still worth telling?

crindy 11y ago
I thought the poster just wanted people to avoid generalizing. "All women get catcalled" isn't okay, but "I often get catcalled" is fine.
- nostrebored 11y ago
  I think this would be fine, if more people were talking about it. My fiancee phrasing things in a way like "I often get catcalled" frequently gets derailed by people saying what the OP here mentioned. And at that point the discussion does get shut down, because if she does mention that most of her friends have the same experience, the implication does come up. Depending on where you live, and what you do in your day, attractive women do get cat called. A lot. An upsetting amount, and just because it's not a universal doesn't make the derailing okay either. I'm sure that people saying this don't mean to derail, just as people mentioning the catcalling don't intend it as an insult, but it does shut down conversation.
Confusion 11y ago
Is the implication here that ryanobjc's partner can't tell the story of how alienating these stories are to her, because that would be derailing a worthwhile project? In fact, is the implication here that any story that is not in harmony with such a project's goals may immediately be shot down as 'derailing', without addressing the actual concerns or criticism at all? That is how you get groupthink and echo chambers.

normloman 11y ago

That's why there are multiple stories. So someone reading can see the whole range of women's experience in technology. I'm sure there will be some good, some bad.

jonnybgood 11y ago

You're correct. Something else that's noticable here is that they're all white women.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Mz 11y ago
Just a quick preview of one video indicates they aren't all white. A lot are, but not all.
- michaelmrose 11y ago
  You mean the demographics of the videos match the actual demographics of tech companies shocking

crimsonalucard 11y ago

The page presents multiple stories from multiple perspectives to try to cover all experiences. From looking at the pictures, I'm positive at least one of the women on the front page probably doesn't get catcalled either, so your partner is covered. Another thing I don't like about this page is that they are only focusing on Software Engineering as if it represents the entire world of "Technology" aka "Tech." I'll have you know, there's a lot of "Technology" in the kitchen as well. For example: dishwasher and microwave.

lambda 11y ago

> "all women get catcalled" Which one of these videos did that quote come from? I haven't watched them all, but I didn't see it in the few that I watched. > So what about the women who have an entirely different kind of experience? Just because some women have different experiences doesn't mean that there aren't real problems that other women face. For instance, if I have never been a victim of mugging, that doesn't mean that mugging is still not a problem. And hey, I live in a city; so should I say that we should stop talking about problems with urban violence just because I haven't personally been subjected to it?