8 ms·

Kicked out of the US: 33 hours of hell

135 points by billforsternz 11y ago

patio11 11y ago
Many people understand the visa waiver program to mean "America has no immigration laws which apply to white people." This is not actually what the visa waiver program means. Many countries are pretty lax with regards to people immigrating to the country to work. The United States has fallen into a weird equilibrium where working illegally is very, very common and, since the polity hates this fact, also very, very illegal, but only enforceable against people who mostly follow the rules. If you're reading this and don't hold a US passport, you probably mostly follow the rules, so you need to be very, very careful to not violate immigration law when coming to the US.
- pepon 11y ago
  And the law does not mean that "you made something wrong therefore we have the right to treat you as shit". And by the way, that is not what is discussed in this thread. These people made a mistake when getting the visa, and instead of getting an error, they were put in jail 33 hours. Not everyone that makes a mistake with the visa is a terrorist or an illegal worker. Probably most of them aren't.
y_g 11y ago
US Immigration has been throwing the book at people way, way before Bin Laden. Sorry your feelings got hurt. Next time, pay attention.
- xupybd 11y ago
  Yeah why would you want to fix the system and make it easy for people to do things correctly and detect when they have made a mistake. Oh no wait that's actually exactly what you'd want.
  - briandear 11y ago
    They didn't make a mistake. They clearly were aware that a J1 and a visa waiver weren't the same thing. These were supposedly educated people. Why did they think the J1 existed? I would be slightly more sympathetic if their first language wasn't Ebglish and they weren't highly educated.
    - xupybd 11y ago
      NZ has three official language Ebglish is not one of them. Sorry too hard to resist the cheap shot. Edit: Sorry this is not meant to offend, I just thought it was funny.
- viraptor 11y ago
  Alternative solution where they don't just try to piss off as many people as possible: - automatically stop people from getting visa waivers if they applied for J-1 - save space in detention - save the time by not dealing with such cases at the airport - prevent people from getting treated badly - prevent articles like this from being written Or you know... keep throwing the book. That works very well as you can see.
comrade1 11y ago
Just stop going to the u.s. Frankly, the place is a dump and its people are ignorant and crude. I never thought I'd have an unironic conversation with someone arguing against the existence of evolution until my last trip to the u.s. They are superstitious and even the most liberal of them has politics to the right of your government's fascist wing, and a bizarre attitude toward sex where their behavior is nothing like their rhetoric.
- Xorlev 11y ago
  That's a pretty broad brush to paint a country of 350+ million citizens.
  - comrade1 11y ago
    Just do a search on 'u.s. Education decline'. Sure, there are always individuals that buck the trend but overall the u.s. Is an embarrassment and getting worse. Anecdotally, I am in the Midwest twice per year and have to listen to people complaining about the Jews and the niggers, and about various conspiracies about global warming, and how there's no way we're descended from monkeys. I don't hear any of at shit where I live in Europe, except for some of the racist stuff but in a more nuanced manner.
    - strictnein 11y ago
      F'en BS. You visit the "Midwest" twice a year and there's just people throwing out ethnic slurs all over the place? And the most "liberal" people you're talking to are far right fascists? Sorry, simply BS. Stop making stuff up. You're not impressing anyone with your nonsense. I await your even more strongly worded rebuttal to being called out. I'm sure it will be super convincing.
      - comrade1 11y ago
        This is rural MN and NW WI, but even then do you find it hard to believe? 45% of Americans believe in creationism and the u.s. has some of the worse race relations on the planet. What sort of bubble do you live in?
Arzh 11y ago
Man, white people are soft.
andrewchambers 11y ago
I up voted, because this does seem wrong, but this lady is overly dramatic in my opinion.
- xupybd 11y ago
  I don't think you understand how different this is to the way things are done in NZ. Our police are polite and friendly. To be treated like that would have been a shock.
  - andrewchambers 11y ago
    I'm from NZ, our police are great. I just think one day without your cell phone is not the same as treated like a nazi prisoner.
    - xupybd 11y ago
      Yeah fair call. But if we were to think about this in terms of user experience, I think there would be a different tone. If you're web form turns customers away, you work your butt off to change things. But for some reason if your border security outrages writers, to the point that they write articles like that one, people say tough luck you should have researched the rules. How about if you apply for the two visas and it's such a big problem you warn people during the application process. This would be like have a form the blanks all the fields on submit and only tells you the required fields after you have failed to fill them in.
- comrade1 11y ago
  You've obviously never had to spend a night in jail.
- TodPunk 11y ago
  As usual with dramatizations of poor policy where the treatment of people is concerned: response on both sides was over the top. Obviously immigration reform is needed. Obviously immigration workers and the security they employ are more tough than they need to be. The problem with this article is the author dehumanizes them because she feels superior to them and more importantly aggrandizes her suffering as if it is comparable to any one of the analogies she draws, let alone all of them. She spent the night in a jail cell and it was uncomfortable. She was treated like a criminal (ignoring the fact that she was, in fact, a criminal, accidentally or not). She was not, however, treated like anyone typical in Nazi Germany. She certainly wasn't treated like anyone was sticking it to PhD students out of jealousy (how would they even know, especially given the number of people they have to process through customs in a day?) Making the comparison like she is diminishes the actual terrors and actual social dichotomies faced by people that are in no way deeply concerned about not having a cell phone for a day.
benguild 11y ago
This happened to my friend's parents because they misunderstood a visa form.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
declan 11y ago
This is horrific. Eventually the product will become so bad that, at the margin, foreign tourists will cease to be interested in it and take their (NZ) dollars elsewhere. Though I've had a nasty experience at Canadian immigration. Once I was invited to speak at a University of Ottawa law school event but neglected to bring the invitation letter. I was directed to secondary screening and spent what seemed like hours there before being allowed to enter the country. At one point a Canadian immigration official said they couldn't find any record of the conference, but as far as I could tell they were looking at the main school's web site, not the law school's. Sigh. Ironically the event was sponsored by the Canadian federal government... At least it wasn't 33 hours of hell.
- cperciva 11y ago
  Investigating suspicious claims when people arrive at immigration control is perfectly reasonable; if you claim to be speaking at a conference but they can't find any indication that said conference exists, holding on to you for a while makes sense. I hope that, even without your invitation letter, you eventually managed to put the CBSA agents in contact with someone who could verify your bona fides and they let you into the country though? To me, the largest problem with the reported story isn't that they weren't allowed into the US -- applying for a work visa, then trying to enter as tourists when you don't get the work visa is definitely suspicious behaviour -- but rather that they were kept in jail until they could be deported. These were not dangerous individuals; they could easily have been told to go find a hotel and stay there overnight but report back to be deported in the morning. Which, incidentally, is exactly what happened to a BSDCan attendee a few years ago when he was deemed inadmissible to Canada a few years ago: "You're not allowed in, but it's too late to send you back tonight and you seem harmless, so we're going to give you a 24 hour pass. Be back here at 9 AM tomorrow."
  - sneak 11y ago
    > Investigating suspicious claims when people arrive at immigration control is perfectly reasonable Not knowing how to Google isn't.
Tortoise 11y ago
So I spent about 60 seconds doing research. The J-1 visa they initially applied for is a work visa (or study visa). The ETSA they came on is for visa-waiver (tourism.) Most countries are going to be very unhappy if you apply for a work visa, don't get it, then show up anyway and say you're just a tourist. Non unreasonably, they assume you're lying. This isn't just a US thing.
- slagfart 11y ago
  Sorry - your response doesn't cut it. The ETSA and the J-1 infrastructure obviously can talk - how else would the border agent know to arrest you? If it can talk, then why doesn't it tell you that you're breaking the law, if it's so gosh-darn clear with 60 seconds of research? Remember - you're a local. Tourists are not. Potential tourists see these articles and factor them into their travel plans, usually by not going to the country in question. If it was Venezuela putting people in prison for not following an obscure visa-rule, I doubt you'd be justifying it so happily.
  - tajen 11y ago
    Indeed, I've loved Australia, Asia and Europe, but I'll never set foot in US, despite multiple business conferences which happen nowhere else. I picture the agent asking: "So, you're not using your real name on Facebook. Would you agree that your are impersonating your identity against a US company?"
- Aeolun 11y ago
  The ETSA shouldn't be any less valid just because you applied for a visa (denied or not) first. As far as I understand the visa was still being processed too.
- pandaman 11y ago
  Also, judging by the words "colleagues-to-be" they intended to work on their visa waver. This is illegal as well so even if they've got in they could have been deported later and banned from the US. The whole write up can be summed as "What do you mean 'Ignorantia juris non excusat'?!"
kalleboo 11y ago
On one hand, this account sounds overly dramatized (and quite rude calling the officers "broom pushers"), and it's hard to feel sympathy for people who take the privilege of international travel too lightly by not researching the relevant visa regulations (especially when it's a journalist of all people). On the other hand, US immigration and customs officials really do seem heavy-handed, and seem to revel in treating every tourist who filled out a form incorrectly or misunderstood some rules as the next Bin Laden. Now it's just a TV show so I don't know how "cleaned-up" it is, but if you watch "Australia Border Patrol" they seem to have a much better relationship with their visitors. Many episodes have people arrive flouting quarantine rules or misrepresenting themselves still get let in, possibly just with a fine, since they get a change to explain themselves calmly and correct their mistakes and the officers come across as trying to help people rather than trip them up.
- billforsternz 11y ago
  > and it's hard to feel sympathy for people who take the privilege of international travel too lightly by not researching the relevant visa regulations Really? I travel internationally quite often. I'd never dream of "researching the relevant visa regulations". For example, my wife and I have twice booked river cruises through Europe, entering half a dozen countries each time. We did book through a travel agent, and I just assumed we would be fine. And we were. In my experience going from one first world country to another tends to be very low friction. The USA is becoming an increasingly huge outlier. I haven't been there for a while but actually I probably would do some visa research before going these days. Although having said that if I'd obtained an online visa waiver I'd consider that to count as sufficient research.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    The US seems to enjoy having overly complex processes and stupid rules for things. I mean Canada has a ton of red tape too (the passport system is horrendous). I just seem to run into these things more in the US.
  - 16bytes 11y ago
    I completely agree with you. As a US citizen, I've found it easier to get through customs in France than to get back into the US. I find that fact completely astounding.
jimpick 11y ago
The whole system needs an overhaul. Voters never see the effects of the immigration laws the politicians write. I'm Canadian, but I've worked in the US in the past and make frequent shopping trips (like most Canadians). Many times I've gotten the secondary inspection treatment -- the technique is to try to ruffle your feathers. You always come out feeling violated, but that's the system. I'm sympathetic towards the border guards that have to enforce rules that barely make any sense. They have limited information and antiquated computer systems, yet they have to filter millions of people a day, to "protect" the country. Illegal immigration is a thing and so is smuggling, and terrorism.
- viraptor 11y ago
  > Voters never see the effects of the immigration laws the politicians write. Politicians rarely do that either. I wish they all got a heavy accent, put on an agal and did a few trips for comparison.
anon3_ 11y ago
I'm wondering why this person's anger and outrage is so special, she gets her own article in the newspaper. When people are jerks and rip me off - no one makes me a news article. And that's the problem, in the eyes of the law - you're not this VIP. I understand her frustration in getting turned around. The rules are the rules. You wasted money on a ticket by hoping you could work on a tourist visa. No, you don't get "let off" or special treatment. Always double check to make sure you are using the correct visa! Anyone who wants to see customs in action, I recommend the reality TV show "Border Security", they are in UK, Canada and Australia: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=border+security https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=border+security.
underwater 11y ago
US immigration is really terrible. My first time through I was shocked at how unfriendly and inefficient the system was. It made a big impact on how I viewed the country.
briandear 11y ago
I love the "U.S. Immigration is harsh and mean" meme generally promoted by Canadian, West European and Aussie/NZ folks. Yet, it is interesting how those people conveniently ignore how ridiculous and politically motivated the UK system is. For example, allowing in radical Muslim clerics yet banning an American radio talk show host. Or limiting Chinese dissident Ai Weiwei's visa not because of anything intrinsic about him but because of Beijing's feelings. Ai Weiwei is being treated unequally compared to other Chinese visitors. UK immigration also has targeted certain nationalities for deportation to fill charter planes. Let's not forget about the bloody nonsense at Calais. Then we have Australian immigration policy as well.. This anti-US tripe is getting old. The original author's comparisons to Gitmo were also inappropriate. She wasn't getting water boarded and Jack Bauer wasn't sent to beat her. She was detained because of a visa irregularity that she herself was the cause of. It wasn't a clerical error; she knowingly attempted to enter the country under a false pretense: she wasn't a tourist and she knew it. Sorry for the harsh treatment but it doesn't compare at all to the treatment migrants receive in Calais or when they are captured at sea by the Italians. The fact is that all immigration situations are rather tough all over the world -- especially in countries with extremely high demand and histories of overstays, fraud and abuses.
- serge2k 11y ago
  So rather than insisting that your country tries to actually do well you would rather point a finger at someone else to say they are worse?
1arity 11y ago
This person is pretending to be a fake victim. The situation they created for themselves is their responsibility. If they'd taken responsibility for making sure they are not breaking the law, they wouldn't have broken the law. I believe they are lucky to have been deported so speedily. Also the question they were asked -- "Why didn't you try harder for the J1?" is totally legitimate. Acting privileged and entitled to special treatment because they are "from NZ" is just acting privileged and entitled, instead of choosing to take responsibility to ensure they'd actually get the visa it worked for them to have. Also, planning to have "colleagues at Northwestern" and be on a tourist visa is clear indication that they weren't planning something which was going to work, and that they knew this. These people were just gambling the small probability they wouldn't get picked up, and then when they get caught, they try to incorrectly blame "Homeland Security" for their situation, instead of taking responsibility for having applied incorrectly. Unfortunately, this choice to disown responsibility and pretend you are powerless is a common deluded attitude. People get themselves into all kinds of messes and then blame everyone except themselves. "The law must be rewritten for me" is just an egomaniacal delusion of privilege and entitlement.
- retrogradeorbit 11y ago
  Have you ever connected to an open wifi before? Have you ever played a poker game with friends at home for money? Have you ever sung happy birthday or Christmas songs in public? Have you ever taken a pee outside? Have you ever failed to update your drivers license when you move? Have you ever Jay-walked? If you have you should be locked up, quite frankly! And don't go pretending you don't know about the eight thousand pages of obscure statutes that apply to you every day. Ignorance of the law is no excuse!
furyg3 11y ago
I read a lot of posts like this where someone makes a mistake (stupid or not) and ends up in a jail cell for extended periods of time. Aside from the notoriously inhuman behavior of US border security (I'm an American and am treated better at foreign border crossings than at my own country's), the facilities should not be humiliating and scary. I understand that they can't be admitted to the nearest best western, because the could be a flight risk or a security threat (in some very unlikely scenario). But there's no reason why an airport holding area can't both a) look like a spartan hostel dorm room † and b) be secure. Families with children should stay together, if possible. Separating couples by gender isn't so scary if both partners arrive in a nice dorm room, they know their partner is safe. Dim lighting at night means that people could still be monitored, if truly necessary, and get a good nights sleep. Only dangerous, unruly, or mentally unstable detainees should be kept in jail-level security conditions. Lying on a visa application does not warrant prison treatment. I know someone has to pay for this, but as someone who travels internationally I'm happy to have my taxes spent in this way... there's a reciprocal quality: I may make a mistake on a form or apply for the wrong visa, and I want to be treated with dignity when that happens. † http://aspiringbackpacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hostel-Dorm-Room.jpg http://aspiringbackpacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hos...
- coldtea 11y ago
  >But there's no reason why an airport holding area can't both a) look like a spartan hostel dorm room † and b) be secure. Heck, real prisons for murderers in Nothern Europe and Nordic countries often look better than Best Western rooms...
thobakr 11y ago
What else would you expect?
annasaru 11y ago
US Immigration is heavy handed, some of my aged relatives have entered with valid multiple entry visitor visas, and still have been questioned for 3-4 hours by rude agents. This couple made some stupid errors though, mainly they were clueless about how rigid the system is. 9-11 obviously changed the US system for ever. Now there is talk of amnesty for people who never filed a single form (sneaked across the border), while those who followed the rules to a T, or at least applied for some visa get treated like this. As a legal immigrant, I am honestly conflicted about amnesty for illegals.

135 points by billforsternz 11y ago

Many people understand the visa waiver program to mean "America has no immigration laws which apply to white people." This is not actually what the visa waiver program means. Many countries are pretty lax with regards to people immigrating to the country to work. The United States has fallen into a weird equilibrium where working illegally is very, very common and, since the polity hates this fact, also very, very illegal, but only enforceable against people who mostly follow the rules. If you're reading this and don't hold a US passport, you probably mostly follow the rules, so you need to be very, very careful to not violate immigration law when coming to the US.

pepon 11y ago
And the law does not mean that "you made something wrong therefore we have the right to treat you as shit". And by the way, that is not what is discussed in this thread. These people made a mistake when getting the visa, and instead of getting an error, they were put in jail 33 hours. Not everyone that makes a mistake with the visa is a terrorist or an illegal worker. Probably most of them aren't.

y_g 11y ago

US Immigration has been throwing the book at people way, way before Bin Laden. Sorry your feelings got hurt. Next time, pay attention.

xupybd 11y ago
Yeah why would you want to fix the system and make it easy for people to do things correctly and detect when they have made a mistake. Oh no wait that's actually exactly what you'd want.
- briandear 11y ago
  They didn't make a mistake. They clearly were aware that a J1 and a visa waiver weren't the same thing. These were supposedly educated people. Why did they think the J1 existed? I would be slightly more sympathetic if their first language wasn't Ebglish and they weren't highly educated.
  - xupybd 11y ago
    NZ has three official language Ebglish is not one of them. Sorry too hard to resist the cheap shot. Edit: Sorry this is not meant to offend, I just thought it was funny.
viraptor 11y ago
Alternative solution where they don't just try to piss off as many people as possible: - automatically stop people from getting visa waivers if they applied for J-1 - save space in detention - save the time by not dealing with such cases at the airport - prevent people from getting treated badly - prevent articles like this from being written Or you know... keep throwing the book. That works very well as you can see.

comrade1 11y ago

Just stop going to the u.s. Frankly, the place is a dump and its people are ignorant and crude. I never thought I'd have an unironic conversation with someone arguing against the existence of evolution until my last trip to the u.s. They are superstitious and even the most liberal of them has politics to the right of your government's fascist wing, and a bizarre attitude toward sex where their behavior is nothing like their rhetoric.

Xorlev 11y ago
That's a pretty broad brush to paint a country of 350+ million citizens.
- comrade1 11y ago
  Just do a search on 'u.s. Education decline'. Sure, there are always individuals that buck the trend but overall the u.s. Is an embarrassment and getting worse. Anecdotally, I am in the Midwest twice per year and have to listen to people complaining about the Jews and the niggers, and about various conspiracies about global warming, and how there's no way we're descended from monkeys. I don't hear any of at shit where I live in Europe, except for some of the racist stuff but in a more nuanced manner.
  - strictnein 11y ago
    F'en BS. You visit the "Midwest" twice a year and there's just people throwing out ethnic slurs all over the place? And the most "liberal" people you're talking to are far right fascists? Sorry, simply BS. Stop making stuff up. You're not impressing anyone with your nonsense. I await your even more strongly worded rebuttal to being called out. I'm sure it will be super convincing.
    - comrade1 11y ago
      This is rural MN and NW WI, but even then do you find it hard to believe? 45% of Americans believe in creationism and the u.s. has some of the worse race relations on the planet. What sort of bubble do you live in?

Arzh 11y ago

Man, white people are soft.

andrewchambers 11y ago

I up voted, because this does seem wrong, but this lady is overly dramatic in my opinion.

xupybd 11y ago
I don't think you understand how different this is to the way things are done in NZ. Our police are polite and friendly. To be treated like that would have been a shock.
- andrewchambers 11y ago
  I'm from NZ, our police are great. I just think one day without your cell phone is not the same as treated like a nazi prisoner.
  - xupybd 11y ago
    Yeah fair call. But if we were to think about this in terms of user experience, I think there would be a different tone. If you're web form turns customers away, you work your butt off to change things. But for some reason if your border security outrages writers, to the point that they write articles like that one, people say tough luck you should have researched the rules. How about if you apply for the two visas and it's such a big problem you warn people during the application process. This would be like have a form the blanks all the fields on submit and only tells you the required fields after you have failed to fill them in.
comrade1 11y ago
You've obviously never had to spend a night in jail.
TodPunk 11y ago
As usual with dramatizations of poor policy where the treatment of people is concerned: response on both sides was over the top. Obviously immigration reform is needed. Obviously immigration workers and the security they employ are more tough than they need to be. The problem with this article is the author dehumanizes them because she feels superior to them and more importantly aggrandizes her suffering as if it is comparable to any one of the analogies she draws, let alone all of them. She spent the night in a jail cell and it was uncomfortable. She was treated like a criminal (ignoring the fact that she was, in fact, a criminal, accidentally or not). She was not, however, treated like anyone typical in Nazi Germany. She certainly wasn't treated like anyone was sticking it to PhD students out of jealousy (how would they even know, especially given the number of people they have to process through customs in a day?) Making the comparison like she is diminishes the actual terrors and actual social dichotomies faced by people that are in no way deeply concerned about not having a cell phone for a day.

benguild 11y ago

This happened to my friend's parents because they misunderstood a visa form.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

declan 11y ago

This is horrific. Eventually the product will become so bad that, at the margin, foreign tourists will cease to be interested in it and take their (NZ) dollars elsewhere. Though I've had a nasty experience at Canadian immigration. Once I was invited to speak at a University of Ottawa law school event but neglected to bring the invitation letter. I was directed to secondary screening and spent what seemed like hours there before being allowed to enter the country. At one point a Canadian immigration official said they couldn't find any record of the conference, but as far as I could tell they were looking at the main school's web site, not the law school's. Sigh. Ironically the event was sponsored by the Canadian federal government... At least it wasn't 33 hours of hell.

cperciva 11y ago
Investigating suspicious claims when people arrive at immigration control is perfectly reasonable; if you claim to be speaking at a conference but they can't find any indication that said conference exists, holding on to you for a while makes sense. I hope that, even without your invitation letter, you eventually managed to put the CBSA agents in contact with someone who could verify your bona fides and they let you into the country though? To me, the largest problem with the reported story isn't that they weren't allowed into the US -- applying for a work visa, then trying to enter as tourists when you don't get the work visa is definitely suspicious behaviour -- but rather that they were kept in jail until they could be deported. These were not dangerous individuals; they could easily have been told to go find a hotel and stay there overnight but report back to be deported in the morning. Which, incidentally, is exactly what happened to a BSDCan attendee a few years ago when he was deemed inadmissible to Canada a few years ago: "You're not allowed in, but it's too late to send you back tonight and you seem harmless, so we're going to give you a 24 hour pass. Be back here at 9 AM tomorrow."
- sneak 11y ago
  > Investigating suspicious claims when people arrive at immigration control is perfectly reasonable Not knowing how to Google isn't.

Tortoise 11y ago

So I spent about 60 seconds doing research. The J-1 visa they initially applied for is a work visa (or study visa). The ETSA they came on is for visa-waiver (tourism.) Most countries are going to be very unhappy if you apply for a work visa, don't get it, then show up anyway and say you're just a tourist. Non unreasonably, they assume you're lying. This isn't just a US thing.

slagfart 11y ago
Sorry - your response doesn't cut it. The ETSA and the J-1 infrastructure obviously can talk - how else would the border agent know to arrest you? If it can talk, then why doesn't it tell you that you're breaking the law, if it's so gosh-darn clear with 60 seconds of research? Remember - you're a local. Tourists are not. Potential tourists see these articles and factor them into their travel plans, usually by not going to the country in question. If it was Venezuela putting people in prison for not following an obscure visa-rule, I doubt you'd be justifying it so happily.
- tajen 11y ago
  Indeed, I've loved Australia, Asia and Europe, but I'll never set foot in US, despite multiple business conferences which happen nowhere else. I picture the agent asking: "So, you're not using your real name on Facebook. Would you agree that your are impersonating your identity against a US company?"
Aeolun 11y ago
The ETSA shouldn't be any less valid just because you applied for a visa (denied or not) first. As far as I understand the visa was still being processed too.
pandaman 11y ago
Also, judging by the words "colleagues-to-be" they intended to work on their visa waver. This is illegal as well so even if they've got in they could have been deported later and banned from the US. The whole write up can be summed as "What do you mean 'Ignorantia juris non excusat'?!"

kalleboo 11y ago

On one hand, this account sounds overly dramatized (and quite rude calling the officers "broom pushers"), and it's hard to feel sympathy for people who take the privilege of international travel too lightly by not researching the relevant visa regulations (especially when it's a journalist of all people). On the other hand, US immigration and customs officials really do seem heavy-handed, and seem to revel in treating every tourist who filled out a form incorrectly or misunderstood some rules as the next Bin Laden. Now it's just a TV show so I don't know how "cleaned-up" it is, but if you watch "Australia Border Patrol" they seem to have a much better relationship with their visitors. Many episodes have people arrive flouting quarantine rules or misrepresenting themselves still get let in, possibly just with a fine, since they get a change to explain themselves calmly and correct their mistakes and the officers come across as trying to help people rather than trip them up.

billforsternz 11y ago
> and it's hard to feel sympathy for people who take the privilege of international travel too lightly by not researching the relevant visa regulations Really? I travel internationally quite often. I'd never dream of "researching the relevant visa regulations". For example, my wife and I have twice booked river cruises through Europe, entering half a dozen countries each time. We did book through a travel agent, and I just assumed we would be fine. And we were. In my experience going from one first world country to another tends to be very low friction. The USA is becoming an increasingly huge outlier. I haven't been there for a while but actually I probably would do some visa research before going these days. Although having said that if I'd obtained an online visa waiver I'd consider that to count as sufficient research.
- serge2k 11y ago
  The US seems to enjoy having overly complex processes and stupid rules for things. I mean Canada has a ton of red tape too (the passport system is horrendous). I just seem to run into these things more in the US.
- 16bytes 11y ago
  I completely agree with you. As a US citizen, I've found it easier to get through customs in France than to get back into the US. I find that fact completely astounding.

jimpick 11y ago

The whole system needs an overhaul. Voters never see the effects of the immigration laws the politicians write. I'm Canadian, but I've worked in the US in the past and make frequent shopping trips (like most Canadians). Many times I've gotten the secondary inspection treatment -- the technique is to try to ruffle your feathers. You always come out feeling violated, but that's the system. I'm sympathetic towards the border guards that have to enforce rules that barely make any sense. They have limited information and antiquated computer systems, yet they have to filter millions of people a day, to "protect" the country. Illegal immigration is a thing and so is smuggling, and terrorism.

viraptor 11y ago
> Voters never see the effects of the immigration laws the politicians write. Politicians rarely do that either. I wish they all got a heavy accent, put on an agal and did a few trips for comparison.

anon3_ 11y ago

I'm wondering why this person's anger and outrage is so special, she gets her own article in the newspaper. When people are jerks and rip me off - no one makes me a news article. And that's the problem, in the eyes of the law - you're not this VIP. I understand her frustration in getting turned around. The rules are the rules. You wasted money on a ticket by hoping you could work on a tourist visa. No, you don't get "let off" or special treatment. Always double check to make sure you are using the correct visa! Anyone who wants to see customs in action, I recommend the reality TV show "Border Security", they are in UK, Canada and Australia: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=border+security https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=border+security.

underwater 11y ago

US immigration is really terrible. My first time through I was shocked at how unfriendly and inefficient the system was. It made a big impact on how I viewed the country.

briandear 11y ago

I love the "U.S. Immigration is harsh and mean" meme generally promoted by Canadian, West European and Aussie/NZ folks. Yet, it is interesting how those people conveniently ignore how ridiculous and politically motivated the UK system is. For example, allowing in radical Muslim clerics yet banning an American radio talk show host. Or limiting Chinese dissident Ai Weiwei's visa not because of anything intrinsic about him but because of Beijing's feelings. Ai Weiwei is being treated unequally compared to other Chinese visitors. UK immigration also has targeted certain nationalities for deportation to fill charter planes. Let's not forget about the bloody nonsense at Calais. Then we have Australian immigration policy as well.. This anti-US tripe is getting old. The original author's comparisons to Gitmo were also inappropriate. She wasn't getting water boarded and Jack Bauer wasn't sent to beat her. She was detained because of a visa irregularity that she herself was the cause of. It wasn't a clerical error; she knowingly attempted to enter the country under a false pretense: she wasn't a tourist and she knew it. Sorry for the harsh treatment but it doesn't compare at all to the treatment migrants receive in Calais or when they are captured at sea by the Italians. The fact is that all immigration situations are rather tough all over the world -- especially in countries with extremely high demand and histories of overstays, fraud and abuses.

serge2k 11y ago
So rather than insisting that your country tries to actually do well you would rather point a finger at someone else to say they are worse?

1arity 11y ago

This person is pretending to be a fake victim. The situation they created for themselves is their responsibility. If they'd taken responsibility for making sure they are not breaking the law, they wouldn't have broken the law. I believe they are lucky to have been deported so speedily. Also the question they were asked -- "Why didn't you try harder for the J1?" is totally legitimate. Acting privileged and entitled to special treatment because they are "from NZ" is just acting privileged and entitled, instead of choosing to take responsibility to ensure they'd actually get the visa it worked for them to have. Also, planning to have "colleagues at Northwestern" and be on a tourist visa is clear indication that they weren't planning something which was going to work, and that they knew this. These people were just gambling the small probability they wouldn't get picked up, and then when they get caught, they try to incorrectly blame "Homeland Security" for their situation, instead of taking responsibility for having applied incorrectly. Unfortunately, this choice to disown responsibility and pretend you are powerless is a common deluded attitude. People get themselves into all kinds of messes and then blame everyone except themselves. "The law must be rewritten for me" is just an egomaniacal delusion of privilege and entitlement.

retrogradeorbit 11y ago
Have you ever connected to an open wifi before? Have you ever played a poker game with friends at home for money? Have you ever sung happy birthday or Christmas songs in public? Have you ever taken a pee outside? Have you ever failed to update your drivers license when you move? Have you ever Jay-walked? If you have you should be locked up, quite frankly! And don't go pretending you don't know about the eight thousand pages of obscure statutes that apply to you every day. Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

furyg3 11y ago

I read a lot of posts like this where someone makes a mistake (stupid or not) and ends up in a jail cell for extended periods of time. Aside from the notoriously inhuman behavior of US border security (I'm an American and am treated better at foreign border crossings than at my own country's), the facilities should not be humiliating and scary. I understand that they can't be admitted to the nearest best western, because the could be a flight risk or a security threat (in some very unlikely scenario). But there's no reason why an airport holding area can't both a) look like a spartan hostel dorm room † and b) be secure. Families with children should stay together, if possible. Separating couples by gender isn't so scary if both partners arrive in a nice dorm room, they know their partner is safe. Dim lighting at night means that people could still be monitored, if truly necessary, and get a good nights sleep. Only dangerous, unruly, or mentally unstable detainees should be kept in jail-level security conditions. Lying on a visa application does not warrant prison treatment. I know someone has to pay for this, but as someone who travels internationally I'm happy to have my taxes spent in this way... there's a reciprocal quality: I may make a mistake on a form or apply for the wrong visa, and I want to be treated with dignity when that happens. † http://aspiringbackpacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hostel-Dorm-Room.jpg http://aspiringbackpacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hos...

coldtea 11y ago
>But there's no reason why an airport holding area can't both a) look like a spartan hostel dorm room † and b) be secure. Heck, real prisons for murderers in Nothern Europe and Nordic countries often look better than Best Western rooms...

thobakr 11y ago

What else would you expect?

annasaru 11y ago

US Immigration is heavy handed, some of my aged relatives have entered with valid multiple entry visitor visas, and still have been questioned for 3-4 hours by rude agents. This couple made some stupid errors though, mainly they were clueless about how rigid the system is. 9-11 obviously changed the US system for ever. Now there is talk of amnesty for people who never filed a single form (sneaked across the border), while those who followed the rules to a T, or at least applied for some visa get treated like this. As a legal immigrant, I am honestly conflicted about amnesty for illegals.