igouy

15 ms·

241.
by igouy 1y ago
The source citations are facts. We can check that Alan Kay "The Early History of Smalltalk" shows this on page 82: "Unfortunately, inheritance — though an incredibly powerful technique — has turned out to be very difficult f
242.
by igouy 1y ago
"The expression problem matrix … In object-oriented languages, it's easy to add new types but difficult to add new operations … Whereas in functional languages, it's easy to add new operations but difficult to add new types&q
243.
by igouy 1y ago
> This is how I was taught OOP … That's unfortunate. "The simplistic approach is to say that object-oriented development is a process requiring no transformations, beginning with the construction of an object model and progress
244.
by igouy 1y ago
Multi-methods do seem like a missed opportunity: "Visitor Pattern Versus Multimethods" https://nice.sourceforge.net/visitor.html
245.
by igouy 1y ago
> This is a mistake is because https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44638183
246.
by igouy 1y ago
Previously on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44596554
247.
by igouy 1y ago
> minimal filler 13:45 -- "He's like, inheritance was like really powerful, but people just didn't know how to use it. Novices and experts apparently both couldn't use it, right. It was just uh you know, it's re
248.
by igouy 1y ago
Here's one of the Alan Kay quotes — "Unfortunately, inheritance — though an incredibly powerful technique — has turned out to be very difficult for novices (and even professionals) to deal with." Alan Kay, The Early History o
249.
by igouy 1y ago
There was a little commercial development with BlackBox https://blackboxframework.org/
250.
by igouy 1y ago
> no I don't, you win Because what they are actually like is java.awt — they are the classes used to implement graphics in Smalltalk-80, not some made-up example. (The "Java in a Nutshell 8th ed, I found has no page numbers. T
251.
by igouy 1y ago
> used 90s Java style "compile-time hierarchy of encapsulation that matches the domain model" OOP to explain it. Beware anachronism. They used the actual 80s Smalltalk implementation to explain the actual Smalltalk-80 implement
252.
by igouy 1y ago
I've listen'd to just past: 24:50 -- "A lot of people talk about these things. They talk about those compile time hierarchies and all that sort-of stuff; and they say - like you know, here's the thing that you just don&#
253.
by igouy 1y ago
11:10 -- The second thing that I want to get clear, is I don't want to hear any complaints that no one ever pushed this model. … It is so obvious that everyone actually 100% meant you should look at the domain model and you should code
254.
by igouy 1y ago
11:05 -- I'm not saying that OOP was a mistake, I'm saying that this was a mistake: "compile-time hierarchy of encapsulation that matches the domain model was a mistake".
255.
by igouy 1y ago
> the same shape class inheritance example you'll see in every introductory Java textbook Here's what's shown: DisplayObject DisplayMedium Form Cursor DisplayScreen
256.
by igouy 1y ago
> the thing which runs the Smalltalk bytecode VM ? "There are about one hundred primitive methods that the Smalltalk-80 virtual machine knows how to perform."
257.
by igouy 1y ago
Oh if only you watched you could share.
258.
by igouy 1y ago
Is that a source given during "The Big Oops: Anatomy of a Thirty-Five-Year Mistake"? Otherwise the author might reasonably say that isn't what they meant. A lot of people have said a lot of things about OOP for decades. So lo
259.
by igouy 1y ago
Maybe it's all about ad-revenue.
260.
by igouy 1y ago
None that I can find. Maybe we need to beg the presenter.
261.
by igouy 1y ago
It is not moving the goal posts. It is moving goal posts .
262.
by igouy 1y ago
> You’ll get better results if you just search for That isn't what @bevyenjoyer told me to do. Moving goal posts. That's why it's important for the OP to provide a reference, so from the beginning we are all talking about
263.
by igouy 1y ago
So it was a sales pitch? And we would have blindly believed the sales pitch because …? (I asked for actual references for those quotes so we don't waste time with moving goal posts.)
264.
by igouy 1y ago
1) 'AI Overview "No, it's not strictly true that Object-Oriented Programming (OOP) is exclusively made for large teams, but it does offer significant advantages in such environments."' 2) 'Casey Muratori -- The
265.
by igouy 1y ago
There is a transcript: click Casey's links more click Show transcript
266.
by igouy 1y ago
> "OOP is made for large teams" "you're not using it as intended" "its not made to model your domain hierarchy" Are there actual references for those quotes? Were they said by some kind-of expert or by
267.
by igouy 1y ago
more about Thinglab https://archive.esug.org/HistoricalDocuments/ThingLab/ThingL...
268.
by igouy 1y ago
Was there something specific that prompted you to say "a very good article"? (Just curious to know what appealed to you.)
269.
by igouy 1y ago
> And I don't feel like I need to be saved by anyone. You seem to have read what isn't there. I was attempting to check if I had read what wasn't there. And perhaps I did, if it's "more a way to maintain a good h
270.
by igouy 1y ago
Free yourself from the chains of modernist narrative!

More ›