5 ms·

Switched from Microsoft products in 1999, back when Palladium started. That was offensive enough. This is downright disgusting. I always ask co-workers how muc

Switched from Microsoft products in 1999, back when Palladium started. That was offensive enough. This is downright disgusting. I always ask co-workers how much liberty Windows users are willing to sacrifice to continue using their systems. Seems even I underestimated with Windows 10.

macspoofing 11y ago
>I always ask co-workers how much liberty Windows users are willing to sacrifice to continue using their systems. You do realize we live in an era of smartphones, facebook and cloud services. Those liberties have been given up already. Window is looking downright open these days.
- ageofwant 11y ago
  Accurate but irrelevant. The point is not to adapt to the "new normal", but to reject it and demand a higher standard.
  - edgyswingset 11y ago
    > The point is not to adapt to the "new normal", but to reject it and demand a higher standard Most people don't care. Features are more important than FOSS when consumer software is concerned.
- blackbeard 11y ago
  Windows is not really open, has never has been and never will be. In fact it is getting worse. There's always a black box at the bottom of every stack trace, a secret in every corner and a cost to every solution be it time or money. Users, myself included, use it because we're stuck.
  - socceroos 11y ago
    I'm in the fortunate position to not need Windows for anything other than the odd game. The GNU/Linux desktop has been fulfilling my needs for over a decade now. In today's internet-centric world, there is little need to have Windows around for anything other than very specific jobs - for the average user.
- anonbanker 11y ago
  many of us have avoided (or selectively/safely used) the accessories of this era, because we value our liberties. Seychelles/Iceland-based cloud storage providers, and rk3xxx-based mobile devices (with VoIP) keep us relevant and reasonably modern while preserving our rights. There are more of us than you think.
blackbeard 11y ago
First post here. I've been lurking for a few months. So, hello. I'm ashamed of myself for exactly this reason. It's no better than smoking. I know it's not good for me but I keep doing it out of apathy and convenience. I know my way around a Linux machine well and have a few production nodes under my command but they never make it to the desktop. There's always some proprietary protocol in the way be it a VPN, remote desktop connection or product I have to integrate with. I'd really love to just shake it tomorrow. It's harder to walk away than not to get into this situation in the first place. Now it's a burden.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Not trying to persuade you either way but if you do move and try Wine for those applications it'd be much appreciated if you would update the Wine Application Database. https://appdb.winehq.org/ https://appdb.winehq.org/
  - blackbeard 11y ago
    It's more that my customers are using it so I have to meet them half way. If I have a greenfield, I'll probably do it in tcl/tk or python/wx but I'm stick maintaining old win32 and winforms stuff for people. My win32 stuff worked in wine about 7-8 years ago now which was nice.
userbinator 11y ago
I remember Palladium[1] too. It seems back then people were far more concerned about locked-down devices than they are today, where the majority are willing to accept anything that is advertised as being "more secure" - even secure against them. The media's constant reporting of hacks and leaks certainly doesn't help... I wouldn't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but this "security culture" today really makes me wonder if it's all part of a plan towards an Orwellian society. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computi...
- aunty_helen 11y ago
  There was a higher bar to access back then. Today devices are made for and used by almost everyone. People haven't become less concerned in total, it's just that there are more people that never cared in the first place using technology.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  The truth is that for most users, a locked down device is simply more secure. By controlling the environment tightly, the manufacturer can be sure to exclude malicious software. For example, how easy is it to install a keylogger on an iPhone? Allowing users to bypass security mechanisms will ensure they get bypassed. Wasn't it Facebook that was having users compromised by attackers tricking users into running code in the console? If iPhones shipped with a special security bypass button or something, it wouldn't be long before people became accustomed to using it and we'd be back to user devices being rooted left and right. This seems like a difficult problem to work around, if we want users to have a "worry free" experience. I find it disgusting and unfortunate, but I recognize that my desires are not representative of the general market.
  - anonbanker 11y ago
    with a baseband exploit, it's trivial to install a keylogger on an iphone. all it takes is one skilled user to make all the dumb ones their slaves.

macspoofing 11y ago

>I always ask co-workers how much liberty Windows users are willing to sacrifice to continue using their systems. You do realize we live in an era of smartphones, facebook and cloud services. Those liberties have been given up already. Window is looking downright open these days.

ageofwant 11y ago
Accurate but irrelevant. The point is not to adapt to the "new normal", but to reject it and demand a higher standard.
- edgyswingset 11y ago
  > The point is not to adapt to the "new normal", but to reject it and demand a higher standard Most people don't care. Features are more important than FOSS when consumer software is concerned.
blackbeard 11y ago
Windows is not really open, has never has been and never will be. In fact it is getting worse. There's always a black box at the bottom of every stack trace, a secret in every corner and a cost to every solution be it time or money. Users, myself included, use it because we're stuck.
- socceroos 11y ago
  I'm in the fortunate position to not need Windows for anything other than the odd game. The GNU/Linux desktop has been fulfilling my needs for over a decade now. In today's internet-centric world, there is little need to have Windows around for anything other than very specific jobs - for the average user.
anonbanker 11y ago
many of us have avoided (or selectively/safely used) the accessories of this era, because we value our liberties. Seychelles/Iceland-based cloud storage providers, and rk3xxx-based mobile devices (with VoIP) keep us relevant and reasonably modern while preserving our rights. There are more of us than you think.

blackbeard 11y ago

First post here. I've been lurking for a few months. So, hello. I'm ashamed of myself for exactly this reason. It's no better than smoking. I know it's not good for me but I keep doing it out of apathy and convenience. I know my way around a Linux machine well and have a few production nodes under my command but they never make it to the desktop. There's always some proprietary protocol in the way be it a VPN, remote desktop connection or product I have to integrate with. I'd really love to just shake it tomorrow. It's harder to walk away than not to get into this situation in the first place. Now it's a burden.

DanBC 11y ago
Not trying to persuade you either way but if you do move and try Wine for those applications it'd be much appreciated if you would update the Wine Application Database. https://appdb.winehq.org/ https://appdb.winehq.org/
- blackbeard 11y ago
  It's more that my customers are using it so I have to meet them half way. If I have a greenfield, I'll probably do it in tcl/tk or python/wx but I'm stick maintaining old win32 and winforms stuff for people. My win32 stuff worked in wine about 7-8 years ago now which was nice.

userbinator 11y ago

I remember Palladium[1] too. It seems back then people were far more concerned about locked-down devices than they are today, where the majority are willing to accept anything that is advertised as being "more secure" - even secure against them. The media's constant reporting of hacks and leaks certainly doesn't help... I wouldn't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but this "security culture" today really makes me wonder if it's all part of a plan towards an Orwellian society. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computi...

aunty_helen 11y ago
There was a higher bar to access back then. Today devices are made for and used by almost everyone. People haven't become less concerned in total, it's just that there are more people that never cared in the first place using technology.
MichaelGG 11y ago
The truth is that for most users, a locked down device is simply more secure. By controlling the environment tightly, the manufacturer can be sure to exclude malicious software. For example, how easy is it to install a keylogger on an iPhone? Allowing users to bypass security mechanisms will ensure they get bypassed. Wasn't it Facebook that was having users compromised by attackers tricking users into running code in the console? If iPhones shipped with a special security bypass button or something, it wouldn't be long before people became accustomed to using it and we'd be back to user devices being rooted left and right. This seems like a difficult problem to work around, if we want users to have a "worry free" experience. I find it disgusting and unfortunate, but I recognize that my desires are not representative of the general market.
- anonbanker 11y ago
  with a baseband exploit, it's trivial to install a keylogger on an iphone. all it takes is one skilled user to make all the dumb ones their slaves.