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> The bigger problem is that average Joe doesn't give a sht. As long as the refugee/immigrant is not there, to get his job* he doesn't care. When he finally arr

> The bigger problem is that average Joe doesn't give a sht. As long as the refugee/immigrant is not there, to get his job* he doesn't care. When he finally arrives and takes his job, instead of getting mad to the people who is exploiting the situation, he gets mad to the immigrant who can barely speak the language. I think you dramatically underestimate the place cultural differences are taking in the growing frustration of the people of Europe. Three things: * - Because racial statistics are forbidden in Europe, whenever someone complains that element from a certain group are causing problems their opinion is immediately dismissed as being racist. If you spend even a week in Paris, chances it will be hard for you to stay neutral and support that Muslims/Gipsies aren't committing more crimes than any other groups combined. The problem is, people aren't oblivious to what happen around them. When some of your relatives/friends gets assaulted in the subway once by someone from north-african ancestry, it is a coincidence. Twice, it was bad luck. Third, something is going on. * - More people complain that they do not want such a steady, and large immigraiton flow. Politicians, because they are either powerless or stubborn ignore the people -> Far right politicians, who have put secure borders and immigration quota at the DNA of their programs are on the rise. Rinse, and repeat.

_delirium 11y ago
I don't know much about France, but in Denmark people definitely notice some groups' criminality more than others. There are basically two main groups that contribute a disproportionate amount of Denmark's crime: 1) poor immigrants, and 2) poor Danes. The media seems to like railing against #1 a lot more than #2, though. It's no longer politically incorrect to stereotype immigrants in general, but it's still taboo to stereotype poor, uneducated Danes; you'll be accused of being just an elite Copenhagener who looks down on "white trash". Much of Denmark's violence (though there isn't a lot of violence) comes precisely where these two groups meet each other and get into fights, over for example controlling the drug trade. Shootouts between biker gangs (who are almost exclusively Danish) and immigrant gangs (who are obviously not) are some of the few times you will find an actual shooting in Denmark. If gangs of Danes are fighting gangs of immigrants over control of an illegal business, I personally blame both groups, not only the immigrants.
- evilhaskeller 11y ago
  I think you have addressed the core of the issue. Criminality isn't tied to race, or religion but to an individual's socio-economic background. Poor people are more likely to commit crimes than other. Maybe cultural factors can come into play, but probably in less significant proportions. I do not think however that it is realistic to expect to integrate culturally AND economically that many people at once. If I am right, it means that crimes committed by immigrants will rise even more (not because they are immigrants, but because they are poorer) causing even more frustration until we reach a breaking point, where people say "enough!". I think this would be a tragedy.
atmosx 11y ago
> The problem is, people aren't oblivious to what happen around them. When some of your relatives/friends gets assaulted in the subway once by someone from north-african ancestry, it is a coincidence. Twice, it was bad luck. Third, something is going on. I might have done so in my post unintentionally, but I agree with everything you wrote.

_delirium 11y ago

I don't know much about France, but in Denmark people definitely notice some groups' criminality more than others. There are basically two main groups that contribute a disproportionate amount of Denmark's crime: 1) poor immigrants, and 2) poor Danes. The media seems to like railing against #1 a lot more than #2, though. It's no longer politically incorrect to stereotype immigrants in general, but it's still taboo to stereotype poor, uneducated Danes; you'll be accused of being just an elite Copenhagener who looks down on "white trash". Much of Denmark's violence (though there isn't a lot of violence) comes precisely where these two groups meet each other and get into fights, over for example controlling the drug trade. Shootouts between biker gangs (who are almost exclusively Danish) and immigrant gangs (who are obviously not) are some of the few times you will find an actual shooting in Denmark. If gangs of Danes are fighting gangs of immigrants over control of an illegal business, I personally blame both groups, not only the immigrants.

evilhaskeller 11y ago
I think you have addressed the core of the issue. Criminality isn't tied to race, or religion but to an individual's socio-economic background. Poor people are more likely to commit crimes than other. Maybe cultural factors can come into play, but probably in less significant proportions. I do not think however that it is realistic to expect to integrate culturally AND economically that many people at once. If I am right, it means that crimes committed by immigrants will rise even more (not because they are immigrants, but because they are poorer) causing even more frustration until we reach a breaking point, where people say "enough!". I think this would be a tragedy.

atmosx 11y ago

> The problem is, people aren't oblivious to what happen around them. When some of your relatives/friends gets assaulted in the subway once by someone from north-african ancestry, it is a coincidence. Twice, it was bad luck. Third, something is going on. I might have done so in my post unintentionally, but I agree with everything you wrote.