5 ms·

I just ran into a Independent Order of Odd Fellow lodge a couple weeks ago, while visiting a new city (Decorah, IA). I thought: what the hell is that? A littl

I just ran into a Independent Order of Odd Fellow lodge a couple weeks ago, while visiting a new city (Decorah, IA). I thought: what the hell is that? A little googling revealed the underlying ethos of the organization to be highly attractive, but from what I can glean from the website the whole thing seems to have fallen into decay. Pity. The 'pushback against big business' angle was news to me, though. Interesting perspective. Any references you could recommend to dig into that aspect?

walshemj 11y ago
From what I recall a lot of these where set up for those who felt the Masons where it bit to secretive or a bit to Deist for some peoples tastes
- sitkack 11y ago
  Masons are the quintessential white boy money club. They have absolutely nothing to do with actual stone cutting, they have have an infatuation with having a long lived legacy, like the Pyramids.
  - orionblastar 11y ago
    Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. They claimed to have founded the USA on Masonic principles. http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/14/masons-and-the-making-of-america http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/14/masons-and... The problem is organizations founded to oppose the Masons are religious just as well for the most part. The ones that are secular aren't that big and don't have the money and volunteers to help out. Corporations have gotten secular like Microsoft and Google and Apple. They try to do things to give back to the community. But still some claim they are like the old railroad companies and in it for the money.
    - sitkack 11y ago
      > Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. Like I said. Any sort of good principles, like religious tolerance, was a by product of wanting to put personal wealth as the center of power over religious affiliation. If you want to supplant the church, you don't oppose it directly, you route around it by making it a non-issue.
      - orionblastar 11y ago
        It is sort of what atheists do these days, route around the church with technology and science. Then get on technology and science issues the church may not approve of and then bring up social issues in the community. Only thing is that sometimes churches get up on technology, science, and social issues like when Pope Francis supports evolution over creationism and then talks about working with atheists to fight climate change.
        sitkack 11y ago
        The Catholic Church has done well to distance itself from arguing against science as a refutation of God. It took them awhile, but they eventually learned from that Galileo kerfuffle. If something in the physical universe is proof God, it will someday be understood, thereby shaking the foundations of the belief system. They are slowly removing all links from the physical to spiritual to make for sounder system. Maybe they should use a proof assistant, ;)
        orionblastar 11y ago
        Science does not deal in proof. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamen... Science only deals with the observable universe, it cannot deal with spiritual things that cannot be observed. The only thing close to evidence of God is neurotheology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology There is no such thing as a God-o-meter that can measure God. If God lives in Heaven and the only way to get there is to die and be judged good, how can one observe that? Once you go to Heaven you can't go back to Earth. It might even end up being that God is an alien, the last of his race that was created early in the universe and has evolved for billions of years ahead of us and visited us during early stages of our development to help us along. Last seen over 2000 years ago and went home never to be heard of again. Then again people argue that complex patterns in the universe and life itself is evidence of a creator, and skeptics claim that it came from random chance and not a creator. For every claim to evidence for a creator a skeptic will come up with an alternative to it. I have to say that science does not have evidence against God nor does it have evidence for God. Atheists have taken over science to claim evolution proves God does not exist, etc. When Darwin was doing his theory he just left out God like Newton did with Gravity theory. So that it wouldn't be creationism and it would answer questions he had about creationism. But yes the Catholic Church learns from its mistakes.
Animats 11y ago
"The 'pushback against big business' angle was news to me, though. Interesting perspective. Any references you could recommend to dig into that aspect?" This history of the Texas Railroad Commission may be helpful.[1] [1] https://www.tsl.texas.gov/exhibits/railroad/fight/page2.html https://www.tsl.texas.gov/exhibits/railroad/fight/page2.html
- saryant 11y ago
  The Texas Railroad Commission has a fascinating history. While it was started as a railroad regulator, for much of the 20th century the TRC set world oil prices and served as the model for OPEC.

walshemj 11y ago

From what I recall a lot of these where set up for those who felt the Masons where it bit to secretive or a bit to Deist for some peoples tastes

sitkack 11y ago
Masons are the quintessential white boy money club. They have absolutely nothing to do with actual stone cutting, they have have an infatuation with having a long lived legacy, like the Pyramids.
- orionblastar 11y ago
  Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. They claimed to have founded the USA on Masonic principles. http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/14/masons-and-the-making-of-america http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/09/14/masons-and... The problem is organizations founded to oppose the Masons are religious just as well for the most part. The ones that are secular aren't that big and don't have the money and volunteers to help out. Corporations have gotten secular like Microsoft and Google and Apple. They try to do things to give back to the community. But still some claim they are like the old railroad companies and in it for the money.
  - sitkack 11y ago
    > Most of the US founding fathers were Masons. Like I said. Any sort of good principles, like religious tolerance, was a by product of wanting to put personal wealth as the center of power over religious affiliation. If you want to supplant the church, you don't oppose it directly, you route around it by making it a non-issue.
    - orionblastar 11y ago
      It is sort of what atheists do these days, route around the church with technology and science. Then get on technology and science issues the church may not approve of and then bring up social issues in the community. Only thing is that sometimes churches get up on technology, science, and social issues like when Pope Francis supports evolution over creationism and then talks about working with atheists to fight climate change.
      - sitkack 11y ago
        The Catholic Church has done well to distance itself from arguing against science as a refutation of God. It took them awhile, but they eventually learned from that Galileo kerfuffle. If something in the physical universe is proof God, it will someday be understood, thereby shaking the foundations of the belief system. They are slowly removing all links from the physical to spiritual to make for sounder system. Maybe they should use a proof assistant, ;)
        orionblastar 11y ago
        Science does not deal in proof. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200811/common-misconceptions-about-science-i-scientific-proof https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamen... Science only deals with the observable universe, it cannot deal with spiritual things that cannot be observed. The only thing close to evidence of God is neurotheology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology There is no such thing as a God-o-meter that can measure God. If God lives in Heaven and the only way to get there is to die and be judged good, how can one observe that? Once you go to Heaven you can't go back to Earth. It might even end up being that God is an alien, the last of his race that was created early in the universe and has evolved for billions of years ahead of us and visited us during early stages of our development to help us along. Last seen over 2000 years ago and went home never to be heard of again. Then again people argue that complex patterns in the universe and life itself is evidence of a creator, and skeptics claim that it came from random chance and not a creator. For every claim to evidence for a creator a skeptic will come up with an alternative to it. I have to say that science does not have evidence against God nor does it have evidence for God. Atheists have taken over science to claim evolution proves God does not exist, etc. When Darwin was doing his theory he just left out God like Newton did with Gravity theory. So that it wouldn't be creationism and it would answer questions he had about creationism. But yes the Catholic Church learns from its mistakes.

Animats 11y ago

"The 'pushback against big business' angle was news to me, though. Interesting perspective. Any references you could recommend to dig into that aspect?" This history of the Texas Railroad Commission may be helpful.[1] [1] https://www.tsl.texas.gov/exhibits/railroad/fight/page2.html https://www.tsl.texas.gov/exhibits/railroad/fight/page2.html

saryant 11y ago
The Texas Railroad Commission has a fascinating history. While it was started as a railroad regulator, for much of the 20th century the TRC set world oil prices and served as the model for OPEC.