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Author here. I made Small Basic when I was in MS in 2008. My goal then was to remove programming language ceremony (imports, defs, etc.) and get to instant gr

by _vijaye 11y ago

Author here. I made Small Basic when I was in MS in 2008. My goal then was to remove programming language ceremony (imports, defs, etc.) and get to instant gratification. There are several others that are keeping it alive with a well maintained blog (https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/home?forum=smallbasic https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/home?forum=sm...) and a friendly forum that welcomes programmers of all age and expertise. There's even a strong community in a Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallbasic/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/smallbasic/) PS: I need to find a better host for the website.

furyofantares 11y ago
This project makes me really happy. My first programming experience was modifying numbers I found in GORILLAS.BAS to see what would happen. I didn't know I wanted to learn to program or even what that meant. But the only way I knew to play the game was to open the source file and then run it, which made me curious. I couldn't understand it, but it wasn't unintelligible, either. Being a single text file without a lot of programming ceremony was probably a big part of that. You just start reading top to bottom and that's exactly how it's executing at the start of the file (before you get to subroutines of course).
- zamalek 11y ago
  That's my story, too. The only difference is to edit the BAS I would need to restart the computer: I didn't have a VGA card so I ran a TSR VGA emulator (called 'phix'). It broke the QBasic editor. So even back then I was learning about the high cost of changes. I eventually cleared out the BAS due to a mistake I made while working with the editor that I could not see.
meta0bject 11y ago
Since you're the creator, I'd like to ask you, why BASIC and not Smalltalk? You mention a desire to eschew boilerplate and provide instant gratification--doesn't Smalltalk provide that as well if not better than BASIC?
- Scaevolus 11y ago
  Smalltalk doesn't translate as cleanly between common mathematical notation and code. Variants of BASIC are among the oldest, most minimal languages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_BASIC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_BASIC
  - meta0bject 11y ago
    Variants of BASIC are also unstructured and teach bad habits, such as the construction of goto-laden messes. Smalltalk by contrast is both simple (for example, having only three levels of precedence) yet also a modern, pure OO language coupled with a graphical, live programming environment.
    - pavlov 11y ago
      Are you writing this from the year 1979? I have terrible news for you: John Lennon will be dead next year, and Altair BASIC author Bill Gates III is on track to become the richest man in the world.
      - meta0bject 11y ago
        Scaevolus touted as an advantage the minimalism of variants of BASIC over Smalltalk and linked to such a variant lacking structured programming constructs like functions. I pointed out the flaws of that and certain other variants and ended up at -4 as a consequence. Someone should really make a comprehensive list of programming languages beyond reproach here on HN so users don't inadvertently anger the mob. Obviously Haskell would be at the top, but I never would have guessed BASIC would make the cut.
        laumars 11y ago
        You got down voted because your comment read like you were tarnishing all variants of BASIC with the same brush when in fact many variants do promote structured programming.
        11y ago
seanmcdirmid 11y ago
Hey Vijaye, we definitely miss you! You might be interested in my new work which has a very SmallBasic feel to it: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/smcdirm/apx/index.html http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/smcdirm/apx/in...

by _vijaye 11y ago

furyofantares 11y ago

This project makes me really happy. My first programming experience was modifying numbers I found in GORILLAS.BAS to see what would happen. I didn't know I wanted to learn to program or even what that meant. But the only way I knew to play the game was to open the source file and then run it, which made me curious. I couldn't understand it, but it wasn't unintelligible, either. Being a single text file without a lot of programming ceremony was probably a big part of that. You just start reading top to bottom and that's exactly how it's executing at the start of the file (before you get to subroutines of course).

zamalek 11y ago
That's my story, too. The only difference is to edit the BAS I would need to restart the computer: I didn't have a VGA card so I ran a TSR VGA emulator (called 'phix'). It broke the QBasic editor. So even back then I was learning about the high cost of changes. I eventually cleared out the BAS due to a mistake I made while working with the editor that I could not see.

meta0bject 11y ago

Since you're the creator, I'd like to ask you, why BASIC and not Smalltalk? You mention a desire to eschew boilerplate and provide instant gratification--doesn't Smalltalk provide that as well if not better than BASIC?

Scaevolus 11y ago
Smalltalk doesn't translate as cleanly between common mathematical notation and code. Variants of BASIC are among the oldest, most minimal languages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_BASIC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_BASIC
- meta0bject 11y ago
  Variants of BASIC are also unstructured and teach bad habits, such as the construction of goto-laden messes. Smalltalk by contrast is both simple (for example, having only three levels of precedence) yet also a modern, pure OO language coupled with a graphical, live programming environment.
  - pavlov 11y ago
    Are you writing this from the year 1979? I have terrible news for you: John Lennon will be dead next year, and Altair BASIC author Bill Gates III is on track to become the richest man in the world.
    - meta0bject 11y ago
      Scaevolus touted as an advantage the minimalism of variants of BASIC over Smalltalk and linked to such a variant lacking structured programming constructs like functions. I pointed out the flaws of that and certain other variants and ended up at -4 as a consequence. Someone should really make a comprehensive list of programming languages beyond reproach here on HN so users don't inadvertently anger the mob. Obviously Haskell would be at the top, but I never would have guessed BASIC would make the cut.
      - laumars 11y ago
        You got down voted because your comment read like you were tarnishing all variants of BASIC with the same brush when in fact many variants do promote structured programming.
      - 11y ago

seanmcdirmid 11y ago

Hey Vijaye, we definitely miss you! You might be interested in my new work which has a very SmallBasic feel to it: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/smcdirm/apx/index.html http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/smcdirm/apx/in...