13 ms·

Cuvva – Car Insurance by the Hour

46 points by wrboyce 11y ago

snowmaker 11y ago
Wow, this is a great idea. The fact that you can't drive a friend's car is a crazy aspect of US auto insurance. Is this a new company? Would it apply to Zipcar / car rentals as well as owned cars? Does anyone know of a US equivalent?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > The fact that you can't drive a friend's car is a crazy aspect of US auto insurance. That's not true at all. I have State Farm (IL and FL), and as long as my family member, friend, whatever has my permission to drive the vehicle, they're covered under my policy.
  - lutorm 11y ago
    Indeed. It's apparently a little-known fact that this even applies to rental cars, even though the rental car companies do their best to not tell you this. The wikipedia page even mentions this: "Although frequently not explicitly stated, US car rental companies are required by respective state law to provide minimal liability coverage, except in California, where the driver is solely responsible." Of course, minimal liability is only good if you have no assets whatsoever...
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > It's apparently a little-known fact that this even applies to rental cars, even though the rental car companies do their best to not tell you this. True, but only up to ~30 days. To continue to be covered longer than that, you need a separate policy, or you need to return and re-rent a rental car every 30 days or so. > Of course, minimal liability is only good if you have no assets whatsoever... Having nothing to take is the oldest version of "judgement proof".
      - lutorm 11y ago
        If you rent cars for > 30 days, you're probably better off buying one...
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Depends on your situation. Sometimes you want the flexibility of a rental care rental scenario. Perhaps you're not ready to commit to a purchase or a 3+ year lease. You'll pay more for the rental, but once you're above a 30 day rental period, you can get a discount. If I have a rental car, I can return it anywhere in the country whenever I want if its from a major brand, with the only transaction necessary being a charge on my credit card.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      In addition to that, most personal car insurance policies cover rentals, and every credit card I've ever seen provides insurance for cars rented with that credit card. The average renter is covered by three different policies (the rental company's policy, their personal auto policy, and their credit card, although they don't perfectly overlap and may not cover everything you'd want) before the rental company tries to get them to buy a fourth. Please do your own research before relying on any of this, of course! Especially since individual insurance and credit cards may vary. But personally I've not seen any reason to purchase the insurance they offer.
      - lutorm 11y ago
        Credit cards generally only cover the cost of the rental car, I've not seen one that provides liability coverage. So if you don't have a vehicle of your own, which would provide such coverage, the little-known rental car policy is what saves you from having to fork over extra cash for liability coverage.
- leetNightshade 11y ago
  If you've read other comments here you'll find that is actually typically not the case in the US. You can drive a friend's car and be insured because the insurance is tied to the car regardless of who's driving it; granted it's not black and white. https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows-the-driver https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows... http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2014/06/05/249762.htm http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2014/06/05/249762...
fiatmoney 11y ago
UK only. This would never fly in the US, where insurance is fairly heavily regulated and on a state-by-state basis. Europe in general has far more flexibility around insurance products and pricing.
run4yourlives2 11y ago
Huh? Most car insurance policies already cover lending a car to a friend. Am I missing something here?
- zschallz 11y ago
  Not always in the UK, and if they do it's only liability and not comprehensive/collision.
  - run4yourlives2 11y ago
    Seems pretty unique to the UK (maybe Europe?). In North America it is standard to pretty much every insurance policy.
    - TylerE 11y ago
      The difference, in essence, is that in the US, car insurance covers the vehicle, in the UK insurance covers the driver.
Retric 11y ago
This is only really useful in the UK not the US. In most states, comprehensive and collision coverage protects your vehicle regardless of who's driving it. https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows-the-driver https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows... Note: There are several edge cases, but it's generally not an issue especially if the person borrowing the car has their own insurance for their own car.
- chrisseaton 11y ago
  What stops someone who is cheap to insure (like a retired person) taking out the insurance policy, then someone who is very expensive to insure (like someone with drink driving convictions) actually using the car all the time?
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    Insurance (in NY and OH, at least, I can't speak for other states/countries) asks who the primary driver is. If they can demonstrate you lied about that, I'd imagine they could retroactively drop you.
  - justizin 11y ago
    Nothing, really, but if that person gets into an accident, the insurance will probably be canceled immediately. When I was younger, my dad had my car on his insurance policy, but didn't tell me that it was cheaper because he said I lived at his address and only drove in the (rural) area he lived. When I had a minor collision in a parking lot, we both found ourselves without insurance.
    - nadams 11y ago
      That seems rather surprising they would drop you after one accident. I mean - if they were mad that you lied where you drove - how did they know that it wasn't a one time thing like visiting a friend? I would find it rather silly if you had to call your insurance company ahead and ask for their permission to drive outside of the area you said you would be driving in.
BillinghamJ 11y ago
Hey. I built Cuvva. Exciting to see it posted on HN, causing a lot of traffic to our site! Cuvva is currently UK-only. Here if you drive a friend's car, you're normally only covered for damage to third parties. With Cuvva, it's a full comprehensive policy. This is not typically relevant for the US. However we are interested in the potential for other products which might work in the US.
- phpnode 11y ago
  Hey, this looks really fantastic, it solves a real problem for UK drivers and I think you'll be fantastically successful. However, I couldn't find any information about who's behind the site, and I wonder about the mechanism through which the insurance is provided, how is it backed?
  - BillinghamJ 11y ago
    We are authorized & regulated by the UK Financial Conduct Authority as an intermediary. We have built a partnership with a European underwriter to sell policies on their behalf. To make Cuvva possible, we've had to build every part of the system from scratch. This is mostly in Node JS, with some RoR thrown in. We also have some open source code on our Github - https://github.com/cuvva https://github.com/cuvva
- scott00 11y ago
  I think coverage by the mile or the hour for primary drivers would be of interest to a lot of car owners in US urban areas. An existing player, Metro Mile, markets their product as pay-per-mile, but the majority of the cost actually comes from a fixed per-month fee. Of course that might be because what I want makes no actuarial sense...
  - bri3d 11y ago
    Most US states require that a car be continuously insured as a condition of its registration, so I think a fixed per-month fee is inevitable. Each US state also regulates insurance completely differently, so trying to break into "the US market" with an insurance company is really trying to break into 50 different legal areas. Very similar to the other article on the HN frontpage today about US "FinTech" / money transmittal companies.
switch007 11y ago
Can I view the terms of the policy before purchasing?
- BillinghamJ 11y ago
  Yes - they're available in the app before you pay.
amelius 11y ago
Could be useful. But... I'm wondering why this is tech news. Is now every service, but done on a computer, suddenly tech news? (If so, then I predict this will become a boring place, because there are a gazillion services out there that can be computerized.)
- petercooper 11y ago
  Is now every service, but done on a computer, suddenly tech news? If you look at the "tech" news media nowadays, basically yes. GroupOn launching a food delivery service or a fashion site launching an app is apparently "tech" news now.
- thecosas 11y ago
  Come on; just because it's not tech news, it doesn't belong here? Some of the best links I've seen on HN have either little to do with tech or show tech implemented in an interesting way. The argument could be made that if HN was strictly code, frameworks, dev, etc. it would be a more boring place.
- mikeash 11y ago
  It's not like this is new. Companies like Uber, Lyft, and AirBnB have been front-page favorites for ages.
- notahacker 11y ago
  It's a startup, they built the stack from scratch which is probably a fair bit more complicated under the hood than it looks, it's a niche which is (probably) currently unserved and it's in a decidedly unglamorous industry. Not to mention also a service which London-based developers are actually pretty likely to consider using on occasion. It has a lot more reason to be on here than many other popular links.
pfisch 11y ago
This is amazing. Bring it to the US.
barryhappy 11y ago
Does anyone know a good alternative for rental cars? I figure Cuvva isn't ideal in those situations b/c you need something that lasts multiple days, not just hours.
macsp 11y ago
Great product can't wait to use it
krzrak 11y ago
:D https://support.cuvva.co/hc/en-gb/articles/201826632-Do-I-need-the-owner-s-permission-to-get-cover- https://support.cuvva.co/hc/en-gb/articles/201826632-Do-I-ne...

46 points by wrboyce 11y ago

Wow, this is a great idea. The fact that you can't drive a friend's car is a crazy aspect of US auto insurance. Is this a new company? Would it apply to Zipcar / car rentals as well as owned cars? Does anyone know of a US equivalent?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 11y ago
> The fact that you can't drive a friend's car is a crazy aspect of US auto insurance. That's not true at all. I have State Farm (IL and FL), and as long as my family member, friend, whatever has my permission to drive the vehicle, they're covered under my policy.
- lutorm 11y ago
  Indeed. It's apparently a little-known fact that this even applies to rental cars, even though the rental car companies do their best to not tell you this. The wikipedia page even mentions this: "Although frequently not explicitly stated, US car rental companies are required by respective state law to provide minimal liability coverage, except in California, where the driver is solely responsible." Of course, minimal liability is only good if you have no assets whatsoever...
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > It's apparently a little-known fact that this even applies to rental cars, even though the rental car companies do their best to not tell you this. True, but only up to ~30 days. To continue to be covered longer than that, you need a separate policy, or you need to return and re-rent a rental car every 30 days or so. > Of course, minimal liability is only good if you have no assets whatsoever... Having nothing to take is the oldest version of "judgement proof".
    - lutorm 11y ago
      If you rent cars for > 30 days, you're probably better off buying one...
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Depends on your situation. Sometimes you want the flexibility of a rental care rental scenario. Perhaps you're not ready to commit to a purchase or a 3+ year lease. You'll pay more for the rental, but once you're above a 30 day rental period, you can get a discount. If I have a rental car, I can return it anywhere in the country whenever I want if its from a major brand, with the only transaction necessary being a charge on my credit card.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    In addition to that, most personal car insurance policies cover rentals, and every credit card I've ever seen provides insurance for cars rented with that credit card. The average renter is covered by three different policies (the rental company's policy, their personal auto policy, and their credit card, although they don't perfectly overlap and may not cover everything you'd want) before the rental company tries to get them to buy a fourth. Please do your own research before relying on any of this, of course! Especially since individual insurance and credit cards may vary. But personally I've not seen any reason to purchase the insurance they offer.
    - lutorm 11y ago
      Credit cards generally only cover the cost of the rental car, I've not seen one that provides liability coverage. So if you don't have a vehicle of your own, which would provide such coverage, the little-known rental car policy is what saves you from having to fork over extra cash for liability coverage.
leetNightshade 11y ago
If you've read other comments here you'll find that is actually typically not the case in the US. You can drive a friend's car and be insured because the insurance is tied to the car regardless of who's driving it; granted it's not black and white. https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows-the-driver https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows... http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2014/06/05/249762.htm http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2014/06/05/249762...

fiatmoney 11y ago

UK only. This would never fly in the US, where insurance is fairly heavily regulated and on a state-by-state basis. Europe in general has far more flexibility around insurance products and pricing.

run4yourlives2 11y ago

Huh? Most car insurance policies already cover lending a car to a friend. Am I missing something here?

zschallz 11y ago
Not always in the UK, and if they do it's only liability and not comprehensive/collision.
- run4yourlives2 11y ago
  Seems pretty unique to the UK (maybe Europe?). In North America it is standard to pretty much every insurance policy.
  - TylerE 11y ago
    The difference, in essence, is that in the US, car insurance covers the vehicle, in the UK insurance covers the driver.

Retric 11y ago

This is only really useful in the UK not the US. In most states, comprehensive and collision coverage protects your vehicle regardless of who's driving it. https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows-the-driver https://www.esurance.com/info/car/myth-car-insurance-follows... Note: There are several edge cases, but it's generally not an issue especially if the person borrowing the car has their own insurance for their own car.

chrisseaton 11y ago
What stops someone who is cheap to insure (like a retired person) taking out the insurance policy, then someone who is very expensive to insure (like someone with drink driving convictions) actually using the car all the time?
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  Insurance (in NY and OH, at least, I can't speak for other states/countries) asks who the primary driver is. If they can demonstrate you lied about that, I'd imagine they could retroactively drop you.
- justizin 11y ago
  Nothing, really, but if that person gets into an accident, the insurance will probably be canceled immediately. When I was younger, my dad had my car on his insurance policy, but didn't tell me that it was cheaper because he said I lived at his address and only drove in the (rural) area he lived. When I had a minor collision in a parking lot, we both found ourselves without insurance.
  - nadams 11y ago
    That seems rather surprising they would drop you after one accident. I mean - if they were mad that you lied where you drove - how did they know that it wasn't a one time thing like visiting a friend? I would find it rather silly if you had to call your insurance company ahead and ask for their permission to drive outside of the area you said you would be driving in.

BillinghamJ 11y ago

Hey. I built Cuvva. Exciting to see it posted on HN, causing a lot of traffic to our site! Cuvva is currently UK-only. Here if you drive a friend's car, you're normally only covered for damage to third parties. With Cuvva, it's a full comprehensive policy. This is not typically relevant for the US. However we are interested in the potential for other products which might work in the US.

phpnode 11y ago
Hey, this looks really fantastic, it solves a real problem for UK drivers and I think you'll be fantastically successful. However, I couldn't find any information about who's behind the site, and I wonder about the mechanism through which the insurance is provided, how is it backed?
- BillinghamJ 11y ago
  We are authorized & regulated by the UK Financial Conduct Authority as an intermediary. We have built a partnership with a European underwriter to sell policies on their behalf. To make Cuvva possible, we've had to build every part of the system from scratch. This is mostly in Node JS, with some RoR thrown in. We also have some open source code on our Github - https://github.com/cuvva https://github.com/cuvva
scott00 11y ago
I think coverage by the mile or the hour for primary drivers would be of interest to a lot of car owners in US urban areas. An existing player, Metro Mile, markets their product as pay-per-mile, but the majority of the cost actually comes from a fixed per-month fee. Of course that might be because what I want makes no actuarial sense...
- bri3d 11y ago
  Most US states require that a car be continuously insured as a condition of its registration, so I think a fixed per-month fee is inevitable. Each US state also regulates insurance completely differently, so trying to break into "the US market" with an insurance company is really trying to break into 50 different legal areas. Very similar to the other article on the HN frontpage today about US "FinTech" / money transmittal companies.

switch007 11y ago

Can I view the terms of the policy before purchasing?

BillinghamJ 11y ago
Yes - they're available in the app before you pay.

amelius 11y ago

Could be useful. But... I'm wondering why this is tech news. Is now every service, but done on a computer, suddenly tech news? (If so, then I predict this will become a boring place, because there are a gazillion services out there that can be computerized.)

petercooper 11y ago
Is now every service, but done on a computer, suddenly tech news? If you look at the "tech" news media nowadays, basically yes. GroupOn launching a food delivery service or a fashion site launching an app is apparently "tech" news now.
thecosas 11y ago
Come on; just because it's not tech news, it doesn't belong here? Some of the best links I've seen on HN have either little to do with tech or show tech implemented in an interesting way. The argument could be made that if HN was strictly code, frameworks, dev, etc. it would be a more boring place.
mikeash 11y ago
It's not like this is new. Companies like Uber, Lyft, and AirBnB have been front-page favorites for ages.
notahacker 11y ago
It's a startup, they built the stack from scratch which is probably a fair bit more complicated under the hood than it looks, it's a niche which is (probably) currently unserved and it's in a decidedly unglamorous industry. Not to mention also a service which London-based developers are actually pretty likely to consider using on occasion. It has a lot more reason to be on here than many other popular links.

pfisch 11y ago

This is amazing. Bring it to the US.

barryhappy 11y ago

Does anyone know a good alternative for rental cars? I figure Cuvva isn't ideal in those situations b/c you need something that lasts multiple days, not just hours.

macsp 11y ago

Great product can't wait to use it

krzrak 11y ago

:D https://support.cuvva.co/hc/en-gb/articles/201826632-Do-I-need-the-owner-s-permission-to-get-cover- https://support.cuvva.co/hc/en-gb/articles/201826632-Do-I-ne...