4 ms·

Can they actually sue users when the copyright holders are the ones distributing the content?

yAnonymous 11y ago
In many European countries they can. They set up honey pots, log everything and then send costly C&Ds to thousands of people. Courts usually believe their "proof", no matter how bad it is. It's probably a billion dollar business by now.
- anc84 11y ago
  Citation please.
  - yAnonymous 11y ago
    >http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/Die-Abmahnindustrie-Jeden-kann-es-treffen-5802508.html http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/Die-Abmahnindustrie-Jeden-kann... Estimates of 500,000 yearly C&Ds in Germany from 2011. >http://www.wortfilter.de/news11Q1/news3945.html http://www.wortfilter.de/news11Q1/news3945.html C&D industry in Germany makes about 400 million a year. Don't have numbers from other countries, but it's definitely a big business in Europe.
    - anc84 11y ago
      Those are about the Abmahnungen, no mention of honeypots.
      - yAnonymous 11y ago
        To get the required log files, they have to seed the files themselves. No other (legal) way to do it. Swarm information is not enough as it doesn't prove that any data has been transfered.
        the8472 11y ago
        You could easily download a few chunks from the clients to verify that they are sharing copyrighted works without ever uploading anything to them.
  - icanhackit 11y ago
    Nothing to do with WebRTC but it's (allegedly) a tactic that has been used by a US-based LLC known as Prenda via torrents: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/pirate-bay-data-suggests-prenda-did-create-honeypot-for-downloaders/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/pirate-bay-data-s... Earlier this week, Prenda faced a new and serious allegation: that it had actually put some pornography on BitTorrent itself, intending for it to be downloaded so that it could start a campaign of lawsuits and threat letters. The Pirate Bay gave the data to TorrentFreak, which says that the IP address 75.72.88.156, which uploaded some porn files that Prenda has litigated over, "was previously used by someone with access to John Steele’s GoDaddy account." http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/pirate-bay-founders-fbi-has-prenda-law-under-investigation/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/pirate-bay-founde...
    - anc84 11y ago
      That is one (alleged) example. I was looking for proof of the widespread use of honeypots yAnonymous mentioned.
    - wlesieutre 11y ago
      If we're talking about instances where "Courts usually believe their 'proof', no matter how bad it is," Prenda Law is not one I'd bring up. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/judge-finds-prenda-law-attorneys-in-contempt-says-they-hid-assets/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/judge-finds-prend...
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  I'd expect the honey pots to require at least consent before incriminating someone. Successfully incriminating people based on an action that the "damaged" party forced them to do without even their consentiment is a bit too much to expect. But then, I'm not completely insane. Laws often are.

In many European countries they can. They set up honey pots, log everything and then send costly C&Ds to thousands of people. Courts usually believe their "proof", no matter how bad it is. It's probably a billion dollar business by now.

anc84 11y ago
Citation please.
- yAnonymous 11y ago
  >http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/Die-Abmahnindustrie-Jeden-kann-es-treffen-5802508.html http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/Die-Abmahnindustrie-Jeden-kann... Estimates of 500,000 yearly C&Ds in Germany from 2011. >http://www.wortfilter.de/news11Q1/news3945.html http://www.wortfilter.de/news11Q1/news3945.html C&D industry in Germany makes about 400 million a year. Don't have numbers from other countries, but it's definitely a big business in Europe.
  - anc84 11y ago
    Those are about the Abmahnungen, no mention of honeypots.
    - yAnonymous 11y ago
      To get the required log files, they have to seed the files themselves. No other (legal) way to do it. Swarm information is not enough as it doesn't prove that any data has been transfered.
      - the8472 11y ago
        You could easily download a few chunks from the clients to verify that they are sharing copyrighted works without ever uploading anything to them.
- icanhackit 11y ago
  Nothing to do with WebRTC but it's (allegedly) a tactic that has been used by a US-based LLC known as Prenda via torrents: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/pirate-bay-data-suggests-prenda-did-create-honeypot-for-downloaders/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/pirate-bay-data-s... Earlier this week, Prenda faced a new and serious allegation: that it had actually put some pornography on BitTorrent itself, intending for it to be downloaded so that it could start a campaign of lawsuits and threat letters. The Pirate Bay gave the data to TorrentFreak, which says that the IP address 75.72.88.156, which uploaded some porn files that Prenda has litigated over, "was previously used by someone with access to John Steele’s GoDaddy account." http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/pirate-bay-founders-fbi-has-prenda-law-under-investigation/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/pirate-bay-founde...
  - anc84 11y ago
    That is one (alleged) example. I was looking for proof of the widespread use of honeypots yAnonymous mentioned.
  - wlesieutre 11y ago
    If we're talking about instances where "Courts usually believe their 'proof', no matter how bad it is," Prenda Law is not one I'd bring up. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/judge-finds-prenda-law-attorneys-in-contempt-says-they-hid-assets/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/judge-finds-prend...
marcosdumay 11y ago
I'd expect the honey pots to require at least consent before incriminating someone. Successfully incriminating people based on an action that the "damaged" party forced them to do without even their consentiment is a bit too much to expect. But then, I'm not completely insane. Laws often are.