8 ms·

But what about sugar? We should acknowledge that when I, and many others, address sugar in contexts like these, we are talking about added sugars, not th

But what about sugar? We should acknowledge that when I, and many others, address sugar in contexts like these, we are talking about added sugars, not the naturally occurring sugars or carbohydrates you find in things like fruit. Those are, for the most part, not the problem. *Added* sugars are. In a world where extremely sugary products such as fruit juice and even sugar cane juice can claim "no sugar added" prominently on the label, I find this statement to be problematic. It seems a little bit akin to implying that you can drink all the applejack you want without worrying about intoxication because it has "no alcohol added" - instead, water was removed. I can guarantee your liver is not playing pedantic word games around the process by which that beverage got to 40% ABV, all it cares about is whether you're drinking too much alcohol or not.

_delirium 11y ago
It's been a common trend to actually add sugar via this method too, using e.g. pear juice concentrate as an ingredient to sweeten the resulting product. This is not really any less "adding sugar" than sweetening a product with sugar concentrated from sugar beets or corn.
- mattmaroon 11y ago
  This seems like a problem easily fixed by a simple regulation. Any product containing an ingredient which has a higher sugar content than it's natural range may not use the "no sugar added" label. Might have to define the range for various ingredients since I'm sure breeders/engineers would figure out how to increase the brix on a pear.
  - switch007 11y ago
    Coca Cola company: Revenue: US$ 46.854 billion (2013) Operating income: US$ 10.228 billion (2013) Net income: US$ 8.584 billion (2013) Not sure that's going to happen any time soon :(
    - mixmastamyk 11y ago
      Soda consumption has been going down every year, why CC and others are diversifying.
  - Mvandenbergh 11y ago
    The problem is that the majority of products with added sugar don't really have a natural range. You might be able to come up with one for apple juice, but what about a blended fruit drink?
murbard2 11y ago
This probably stems from the incorrect belief that fruits are somehow "natural" when they are in fact the result of millennia of artificial selection, selecting in particular for sugar content.
- saosebastiao 11y ago
  I've seen this argued before, but I don't believe it because of blackberries. Blackberries are very rarely "selected"...in fact, they are almost always treated as a scourge because of how they negatively affect other plants in their vicinity, choking them to death. And despite the fact that we have been trying to get rid of them for the better part of a millenia, they are one of the sweetest plants we know of.
  - murbard2 11y ago
    ... and it's no accident that berries* are favored by low carb dieters for their low sugar content: blackberries have about 5g of sugar per 100g, rapsberries 4.4g, bananas 12g. *meaning small, tasty, slightly tart, colorful fruits that grow on bushes and tend to be fairly wild, not the botanical definition
    - rgbrenner 11y ago
      and yet blueberries have 10g of sugar per 100g.. the same as apples and pears.
      - murbard2 11y ago
        You're looking at cultivated blueberries. Wild blueberries have between 5g and 7g sugar per 100g. They're typically smaller than their cultivated cousin. Their flavor is more intense, but their texture is slightly grittier.
        rgbrenner 11y ago
        Wild blueberries have between 5g and 7g sugar per 100g. I just searched for that, and saw 10g.. link please?
pixl97 11y ago
The way I like to word this is.. "The evidence supports eating foods that are balanced in their portions of carbohydrates, protein, and fiber". This (long) lecture by Steve Simpson illustrates this rather well. [Law of the locust: a tale of swarms, cannibals, ageing and human obesity] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rV7zAGdbyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rV7zAGdbyA
jsingleton 11y ago
Too true, fruit juice and smoothies can be very bad for you. If you tried to eat the same fruit that was juiced into your drink you would struggle. There is a lot of fibre and other things which limit sugar consumption from unprocessed fruit.
- aviv 11y ago
  Same goes for green juices. Our bodies were not meant to receive an immediate intake of 10 freshly pressed celeries or 3 bunches of kale in one sip.
  - CPLX 11y ago
    > Our bodies were not meant to Not to nitpick but this phrasing always bothers me. Our bodies, most likely, weren't "meant to" do anything by anyone. They've just pondered along adjusting to their environmental stimuli like everything else does.
    - brianbarker 11y ago
      "our bodies weren't meant to eat bread." "Our bodies weren't meant to eat meat." "Our bodies are only meant to eat meat and nuts." I love when a nerd forum like HN uses modern conjecture over fact.
  - theophrastus 11y ago
    Let us not forget the current asserted risk of kale being an accumulator of thallium - hence panic (however: http://m.snopes.com/kale-not-safe/ http://m.snopes.com/kale-not-safe/ ) Wait long enough and every substance we eat will be associated with a study which calls it into question. Then, if chance associates that study with a "slow news day", a relative panic will ensue. As a crusty old medicinal chemist, i offer the best rule of thumb (circa 16th century): [no matter what source it is] the dose makes the poison.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
shaneqful 11y ago
In fairness, this is really down to where you live. If you live in the EU you will see exactly how much sugar is in the drink by looking at the label because that's what the law says. It's up to regulators to hold companies to account. They certainly aren't going to print things that could possibly harm sales on their labels by themselves.
- eseehausen 11y ago
  In the USA it's on the label (though on the back, usually) too. They're just allowed to say that no additional sugar was added. The real push is moving from something that people in the US can't readily parse (like grams of sugar) to something they can (like teaspoons of sugar).
  - gambiting 11y ago
    For a second I thought you got these backwards. Having it in grams is so much clearer. I get really annoyed when recipes tell me to add X teaspons/tablespoons/cups of something - these are not units of measure!
    - mbrameld 11y ago
      Yes they are. Just because you're not familiar with them doesn't mean they're not units of measure.
      - gambiting 11y ago
        Are they defined anywhere officially? Like is there a standard which says how much volume or weight is held by one teaspoon or one cup? Because I have teaspoons which vary widely in sizes, the same with cups. And even if you use a teaspoon to measure - is it with the contents flat? Or in a little pile? It's too ambiguous, and therefore - not a unit of measure.
        eseehausen 11y ago
nickbauman 11y ago
Considering how little we know about nutrition, you should try to eat food that is as little processed as possible because that's what our bodies have adapted to for thousands of years. So an apple is better than apple juice which is better than apple drink (which is a processed food item that may or may not have anything to do with apples). In spite of our desire to reach for the stars, humans are not isolated creatures, they are figures in a landscape. Remove the landscape and you remove the human (or in this case, the heath of the human).

_delirium 11y ago

It's been a common trend to actually add sugar via this method too, using e.g. pear juice concentrate as an ingredient to sweeten the resulting product. This is not really any less "adding sugar" than sweetening a product with sugar concentrated from sugar beets or corn.

mattmaroon 11y ago
This seems like a problem easily fixed by a simple regulation. Any product containing an ingredient which has a higher sugar content than it's natural range may not use the "no sugar added" label. Might have to define the range for various ingredients since I'm sure breeders/engineers would figure out how to increase the brix on a pear.
- switch007 11y ago
  Coca Cola company: Revenue: US$ 46.854 billion (2013) Operating income: US$ 10.228 billion (2013) Net income: US$ 8.584 billion (2013) Not sure that's going to happen any time soon :(
  - mixmastamyk 11y ago
    Soda consumption has been going down every year, why CC and others are diversifying.
- Mvandenbergh 11y ago
  The problem is that the majority of products with added sugar don't really have a natural range. You might be able to come up with one for apple juice, but what about a blended fruit drink?

murbard2 11y ago

This probably stems from the incorrect belief that fruits are somehow "natural" when they are in fact the result of millennia of artificial selection, selecting in particular for sugar content.

saosebastiao 11y ago
I've seen this argued before, but I don't believe it because of blackberries. Blackberries are very rarely "selected"...in fact, they are almost always treated as a scourge because of how they negatively affect other plants in their vicinity, choking them to death. And despite the fact that we have been trying to get rid of them for the better part of a millenia, they are one of the sweetest plants we know of.
- murbard2 11y ago
  ... and it's no accident that berries* are favored by low carb dieters for their low sugar content: blackberries have about 5g of sugar per 100g, rapsberries 4.4g, bananas 12g. *meaning small, tasty, slightly tart, colorful fruits that grow on bushes and tend to be fairly wild, not the botanical definition
  - rgbrenner 11y ago
    and yet blueberries have 10g of sugar per 100g.. the same as apples and pears.
    - murbard2 11y ago
      You're looking at cultivated blueberries. Wild blueberries have between 5g and 7g sugar per 100g. They're typically smaller than their cultivated cousin. Their flavor is more intense, but their texture is slightly grittier.
      - rgbrenner 11y ago
        Wild blueberries have between 5g and 7g sugar per 100g. I just searched for that, and saw 10g.. link please?

pixl97 11y ago

The way I like to word this is.. "The evidence supports eating foods that are balanced in their portions of carbohydrates, protein, and fiber". This (long) lecture by Steve Simpson illustrates this rather well. [Law of the locust: a tale of swarms, cannibals, ageing and human obesity] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rV7zAGdbyA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rV7zAGdbyA

jsingleton 11y ago

Too true, fruit juice and smoothies can be very bad for you. If you tried to eat the same fruit that was juiced into your drink you would struggle. There is a lot of fibre and other things which limit sugar consumption from unprocessed fruit.

aviv 11y ago
Same goes for green juices. Our bodies were not meant to receive an immediate intake of 10 freshly pressed celeries or 3 bunches of kale in one sip.
- CPLX 11y ago
  > Our bodies were not meant to Not to nitpick but this phrasing always bothers me. Our bodies, most likely, weren't "meant to" do anything by anyone. They've just pondered along adjusting to their environmental stimuli like everything else does.
  - brianbarker 11y ago
    "our bodies weren't meant to eat bread." "Our bodies weren't meant to eat meat." "Our bodies are only meant to eat meat and nuts." I love when a nerd forum like HN uses modern conjecture over fact.
- theophrastus 11y ago
  Let us not forget the current asserted risk of kale being an accumulator of thallium - hence panic (however: http://m.snopes.com/kale-not-safe/ http://m.snopes.com/kale-not-safe/ ) Wait long enough and every substance we eat will be associated with a study which calls it into question. Then, if chance associates that study with a "slow news day", a relative panic will ensue. As a crusty old medicinal chemist, i offer the best rule of thumb (circa 16th century): [no matter what source it is] the dose makes the poison.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

shaneqful 11y ago

In fairness, this is really down to where you live. If you live in the EU you will see exactly how much sugar is in the drink by looking at the label because that's what the law says. It's up to regulators to hold companies to account. They certainly aren't going to print things that could possibly harm sales on their labels by themselves.

eseehausen 11y ago
In the USA it's on the label (though on the back, usually) too. They're just allowed to say that no additional sugar was added. The real push is moving from something that people in the US can't readily parse (like grams of sugar) to something they can (like teaspoons of sugar).
- gambiting 11y ago
  For a second I thought you got these backwards. Having it in grams is so much clearer. I get really annoyed when recipes tell me to add X teaspons/tablespoons/cups of something - these are not units of measure!
  - mbrameld 11y ago
    Yes they are. Just because you're not familiar with them doesn't mean they're not units of measure.
    - gambiting 11y ago
      Are they defined anywhere officially? Like is there a standard which says how much volume or weight is held by one teaspoon or one cup? Because I have teaspoons which vary widely in sizes, the same with cups. And even if you use a teaspoon to measure - is it with the contents flat? Or in a little pile? It's too ambiguous, and therefore - not a unit of measure.
      - eseehausen 11y ago

nickbauman 11y ago

Considering how little we know about nutrition, you should try to eat food that is as little processed as possible because that's what our bodies have adapted to for thousands of years. So an apple is better than apple juice which is better than apple drink (which is a processed food item that may or may not have anything to do with apples). In spite of our desire to reach for the stars, humans are not isolated creatures, they are figures in a landscape. Remove the landscape and you remove the human (or in this case, the heath of the human).