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It's funny how Muslims claim it's a "miracle" of Koran that it hasn't changed since it was published. Of course it hasn't changed, technology was at a point tha

by msoad 11y ago

It's funny how Muslims claim it's a "miracle" of Koran that it hasn't changed since it was published. Of course it hasn't changed, technology was at a point that it was possible to keep a book from forgers but publishing it heavily and also, there were many muslims trying to protect Koran from day one. P.S. I born Muslim so I get to be critical about Islam and I think everyone should be able to do so.

ConceptJunkie 11y ago
Actually, it's quite explainable. Unlike the Bible, the "official" version of the Koran has always been the original text in the original version of Arabic spoken in the 7th century. Since it was written down at the time without having to rely on decades or even centuries of oral tradition, as was the case with the Christian and Hebrew scriptures, it's understandable that the text has remained unchanged. Once you start translating something into different languages, that's when the unavoidable changes start working their way in. So, I agree with you that it's not "miraculous" in any way, but it is a fascinating and important archaeological find.
- pbhjpbhj 11y ago
  >it's understandable that the text has remained unchanged // Understandable but not true. There are, currently extent, versions of the text with variations. There was a significant effort made to create a single authoritative version to enforce the narrative of the text being a perfect copy of one in heaven.
x5n1 11y ago
There was no day one Quran. It was compiled many year's after Muhammad's death. There were many versions of the Quran that were destroyed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran#Uthman_ibn_Affan_and_the_canonization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran#Uthman_ib... "When the task was finished Uthman kept one copy in Medina and sent others to Kufa, Baṣra, Damascus, and, according to some accounts, Mecca, and ordered that all other variant copies of the Quran to be destroyed. This was done everywhere except in Kufa, where some scholars argue that, Ibn Masʿūd and his followers refused." Thousands of people claim below: The famous ten People who form the chains of narration regarding the Quran are as follows. Umar ibn al Khattab [26] Uthman bin Affan[27] Ali ibn abi Talib[28] Abu Musa al Ash'ari[29] Ubay Ibn Ka'b[30] Abdullah ibn Masood[31] Zayd Ibn Thabit[32] Abu Hurairah[33] Abdullah Ibn Abbas[34] Abu al-Darda[35] Amongst those ten the two most important people were zayd ibn thabit the personal scribe of Muhammad and Ubay ibn Ka'b who was the foremost authority on the Quran after zaid.[36][37] So 12 people were essentially responsible for Quran, mostly through hearsay.
- Nemant 11y ago
  "Many years"... it was within 2 years. The entire muslim community contributed their memorized Quran together with written parchments (to double check) in the making of the "official" copy. Making this into a community-wide project and hence nobody could say that the Quran was incorrect. Thereafter unreliable parchments were destroyed.
  - x5n1 11y ago
    No. It was 20 years. "The Quranic canon is the form of the Quran as recited and written in which it is religiously binding for the Muslim community. This canonical corpus is closed and ﬁxed in the sense that nothing in the Quran can be changed or modiﬁed. The process of canonization ended under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (r. 23/644–35/655), which was about twenty years after the death of the Muhammad" Edit, most of it is hearsay any way: Zaid ibn Thabit, Muhammad's primary scribe, was assigned the duty of gathering all of the Quranic text. He gives an insight into what happened during the meeting between Abu Bakr, Umar, and himself: "Abu Bakr sent for me at a time when the Yamama battles had witnessed the martyrdom of numerous Companions. I found 'Umar bin al-Khattab with him. Abu Bakr began, Umar has just come to me and said, 'In the Yamama battles death has dealt most severely with the qurra',[Reciters of the Quran] and I fear it will deal with them with equal severity in other theatres of war. As a result much of the Quran will be gone. “ 'I am therefore of the opinion that you should command the Quran be collected.'" Abu Bakr continued, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can we embark on what the Prophet never did?' 'Umar replied that it was a good deed regardless, and he did not cease replying to my scruples until Allah reconciled me to the undertaking, and I became of the same mind as him. Zaid, you are young and intelligent, you used to record the revelations for the Muhammad, and we know nothing to your discredit. So pursue the Quran and collect it together." By Allah, had they asked me to move a mountain it could not have been weightier than what they requested of me now”. (Al-Bukhari, Sahih,Jam'i al-Qur'an, hadith no. 4986; see also Ibn Abu Dawud, al-Masahif, pp. 6-9)" The person ordered to compile the Quran by Abu Bakar said: ...By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Quran... So I started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men.[Bukhari Sahih al-Bukhari, 6:60:201] "So I started looking for the Holy quran and collected it from (what was written on) palm-leaf stalks, thin white stones, and also from men who knew it by heart, until I found the last verse of Surat at-Tauba (repentance) with Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p. 478).[23]
alxtye 11y ago
This may seem irrelevant, but you were actually born atheist. You learnt to be Muslim.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- koenigdavidmj 11y ago
  This is fundamentally the same form of argument as the "we are the 99%" slogan.
  - alxtye 11y ago
    Could you explain what you mean? I'm not following. I apologise for being tiresome.
dataminer 11y ago
I have heard that the current version is not chronological. Is there a reason for that?
rokhayakebe 11y ago
I am not sure Muslims claim this. Actually it is a well known fact that there were several copies, but they were all gathered and burned after ONE was approved by Usman.
- flippinburgers 11y ago
  I have yet to meet a Muslim that doesn't claim it is the perfect word of their god.
  - rokhayakebe 11y ago
    That is the OP's concern. OP was stating that the book has been unchanged and unaltered, and that is not something any Muslim claims. Here is some info in case you are curious [0]. Look for the word "burnt" and read that paragraph. Or simply google "Quran Uthman burnt" http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/other_books.htm http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/other_books.htm

by msoad 11y ago

ConceptJunkie 11y ago

Actually, it's quite explainable. Unlike the Bible, the "official" version of the Koran has always been the original text in the original version of Arabic spoken in the 7th century. Since it was written down at the time without having to rely on decades or even centuries of oral tradition, as was the case with the Christian and Hebrew scriptures, it's understandable that the text has remained unchanged. Once you start translating something into different languages, that's when the unavoidable changes start working their way in. So, I agree with you that it's not "miraculous" in any way, but it is a fascinating and important archaeological find.

pbhjpbhj 11y ago
>it's understandable that the text has remained unchanged // Understandable but not true. There are, currently extent, versions of the text with variations. There was a significant effort made to create a single authoritative version to enforce the narrative of the text being a perfect copy of one in heaven.

x5n1 11y ago

There was no day one Quran. It was compiled many year's after Muhammad's death. There were many versions of the Quran that were destroyed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran#Uthman_ibn_Affan_and_the_canonization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran#Uthman_ib... "When the task was finished Uthman kept one copy in Medina and sent others to Kufa, Baṣra, Damascus, and, according to some accounts, Mecca, and ordered that all other variant copies of the Quran to be destroyed. This was done everywhere except in Kufa, where some scholars argue that, Ibn Masʿūd and his followers refused." Thousands of people claim below: The famous ten People who form the chains of narration regarding the Quran are as follows. Umar ibn al Khattab [26] Uthman bin Affan[27] Ali ibn abi Talib[28] Abu Musa al Ash'ari[29] Ubay Ibn Ka'b[30] Abdullah ibn Masood[31] Zayd Ibn Thabit[32] Abu Hurairah[33] Abdullah Ibn Abbas[34] Abu al-Darda[35] Amongst those ten the two most important people were zayd ibn thabit the personal scribe of Muhammad and Ubay ibn Ka'b who was the foremost authority on the Quran after zaid.[36][37] So 12 people were essentially responsible for Quran, mostly through hearsay.

Nemant 11y ago
"Many years"... it was within 2 years. The entire muslim community contributed their memorized Quran together with written parchments (to double check) in the making of the "official" copy. Making this into a community-wide project and hence nobody could say that the Quran was incorrect. Thereafter unreliable parchments were destroyed.
- x5n1 11y ago
  No. It was 20 years. "The Quranic canon is the form of the Quran as recited and written in which it is religiously binding for the Muslim community. This canonical corpus is closed and ﬁxed in the sense that nothing in the Quran can be changed or modiﬁed. The process of canonization ended under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (r. 23/644–35/655), which was about twenty years after the death of the Muhammad" Edit, most of it is hearsay any way: Zaid ibn Thabit, Muhammad's primary scribe, was assigned the duty of gathering all of the Quranic text. He gives an insight into what happened during the meeting between Abu Bakr, Umar, and himself: "Abu Bakr sent for me at a time when the Yamama battles had witnessed the martyrdom of numerous Companions. I found 'Umar bin al-Khattab with him. Abu Bakr began, Umar has just come to me and said, 'In the Yamama battles death has dealt most severely with the qurra',[Reciters of the Quran] and I fear it will deal with them with equal severity in other theatres of war. As a result much of the Quran will be gone. “ 'I am therefore of the opinion that you should command the Quran be collected.'" Abu Bakr continued, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can we embark on what the Prophet never did?' 'Umar replied that it was a good deed regardless, and he did not cease replying to my scruples until Allah reconciled me to the undertaking, and I became of the same mind as him. Zaid, you are young and intelligent, you used to record the revelations for the Muhammad, and we know nothing to your discredit. So pursue the Quran and collect it together." By Allah, had they asked me to move a mountain it could not have been weightier than what they requested of me now”. (Al-Bukhari, Sahih,Jam'i al-Qur'an, hadith no. 4986; see also Ibn Abu Dawud, al-Masahif, pp. 6-9)" The person ordered to compile the Quran by Abu Bakar said: ...By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Quran... So I started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men.[Bukhari Sahih al-Bukhari, 6:60:201] "So I started looking for the Holy quran and collected it from (what was written on) palm-leaf stalks, thin white stones, and also from men who knew it by heart, until I found the last verse of Surat at-Tauba (repentance) with Abi Khuzaima al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 6, p. 478).[23]

alxtye 11y ago

This may seem irrelevant, but you were actually born atheist. You learnt to be Muslim.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
koenigdavidmj 11y ago
This is fundamentally the same form of argument as the "we are the 99%" slogan.
- alxtye 11y ago
  Could you explain what you mean? I'm not following. I apologise for being tiresome.

dataminer 11y ago

I have heard that the current version is not chronological. Is there a reason for that?

rokhayakebe 11y ago

I am not sure Muslims claim this. Actually it is a well known fact that there were several copies, but they were all gathered and burned after ONE was approved by Usman.

flippinburgers 11y ago
I have yet to meet a Muslim that doesn't claim it is the perfect word of their god.
- rokhayakebe 11y ago
  That is the OP's concern. OP was stating that the book has been unchanged and unaltered, and that is not something any Muslim claims. Here is some info in case you are curious [0]. Look for the word "burnt" and read that paragraph. Or simply google "Quran Uthman burnt" http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/other_books.htm http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/other_books.htm