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> Also, dude, what part of being a PhD student at Stanford doesn't scream a tremendous amount of privilege? Grad school is often fully paid for, particularly i

> Also, dude, what part of being a PhD student at Stanford doesn't scream a tremendous amount of privilege? Grad school is often fully paid for, particularly in STEM fields, because it's like indentured servitude. Undergrad at a fancy US school is much harder financially, but you can still go for free if you're on an elite scholarship and poor. So, go to a cheap undergrad / master's somewhere and then transfer to Stanford for the PhD, if that's what you want and are capable of doing. Is one privileged to have the opportunity to attend grad school at Stanford? Yes, but that doesn't make it categorically unfair.

Daishiman 11y ago
I did not say it is categorically unfair. However, the conditions required for this are far, far removed from the conventional reality of the vast majority of people. For those of us who come from families who have had an ongoing involvement in ther child's education, especially in science, it's hard to grasp just how describing that as a career path might as well be speaking Mandarin to most children from the 70% lower social stratum. I've had TAs go to high schools for very affluent children of a developed country (not a first-world country but there was true wealth here), with a lot of advanced courses in computer science, where 90% of the kids didn't even know that computer science research was actually a thing that existed. Never mind the entire notion of a circle of people who do computer-related entrepreneurship.
- ectoplasm 11y ago
  But what's so special about getting into a PhD at Stanford? If you do your undergraduate degree at another university, you can transfer if you're good enough. Nobody told me about CS research/business in high school either, and I too went to a good school in a developed country. You can learn and decide a lot of things in undergrad.
  - Daishiman 11y ago
    Well, in my experience with my CS degree: * a minuscule portion of the population signs up for the first year of CS * the vast majority drop out because they lack the fundamentals in maths and physics and lack the patience and persistence to learn them * half of the remaining bunch drop out on second and third year where highly technical topics such as metaheuristics and OS internals are introduced, which assume that the student has complete and utter dedication to their studies (which is many times not the case since they have to support themselves financially) * The remaining straggle for a while, most end up going straight to the private sector. Out of the graduates, a third go into the academia gauntlet, where half can expect to not get grants or funding or be forever thrown into shitty unpaid roles Yes, at some point dropping out is not that big a deal and alternative paths emerge, but the idea of doing a business based on a fundamental piece of research becomes unrealistic too, which is where some of the best opportunities lie. In the cases I've identified, almost all the people that go into academia, even in this public uni, come from professional families of homeowners who don't have issues supporting their children well into the mid-twenties.
    - ectoplasm 11y ago
      Strange, all of the grad students I know in CS get funding, it's guaranteed by the department. Women's Studies, not so much. By that token, academics in CS are privileged relative to academics in the humanities, tremendously even. But, I like some of your arguments, particularly that having to work while studying makes it harder to get the grades needed to go to the grad school of your choice.

Daishiman 11y ago

I did not say it is categorically unfair. However, the conditions required for this are far, far removed from the conventional reality of the vast majority of people. For those of us who come from families who have had an ongoing involvement in ther child's education, especially in science, it's hard to grasp just how describing that as a career path might as well be speaking Mandarin to most children from the 70% lower social stratum. I've had TAs go to high schools for very affluent children of a developed country (not a first-world country but there was true wealth here), with a lot of advanced courses in computer science, where 90% of the kids didn't even know that computer science research was actually a thing that existed. Never mind the entire notion of a circle of people who do computer-related entrepreneurship.

ectoplasm 11y ago
But what's so special about getting into a PhD at Stanford? If you do your undergraduate degree at another university, you can transfer if you're good enough. Nobody told me about CS research/business in high school either, and I too went to a good school in a developed country. You can learn and decide a lot of things in undergrad.
- Daishiman 11y ago
  Well, in my experience with my CS degree: * a minuscule portion of the population signs up for the first year of CS * the vast majority drop out because they lack the fundamentals in maths and physics and lack the patience and persistence to learn them * half of the remaining bunch drop out on second and third year where highly technical topics such as metaheuristics and OS internals are introduced, which assume that the student has complete and utter dedication to their studies (which is many times not the case since they have to support themselves financially) * The remaining straggle for a while, most end up going straight to the private sector. Out of the graduates, a third go into the academia gauntlet, where half can expect to not get grants or funding or be forever thrown into shitty unpaid roles Yes, at some point dropping out is not that big a deal and alternative paths emerge, but the idea of doing a business based on a fundamental piece of research becomes unrealistic too, which is where some of the best opportunities lie. In the cases I've identified, almost all the people that go into academia, even in this public uni, come from professional families of homeowners who don't have issues supporting their children well into the mid-twenties.
  - ectoplasm 11y ago
    Strange, all of the grad students I know in CS get funding, it's guaranteed by the department. Women's Studies, not so much. By that token, academics in CS are privileged relative to academics in the humanities, tremendously even. But, I like some of your arguments, particularly that having to work while studying makes it harder to get the grades needed to go to the grad school of your choice.