4 ms·

You are mistaking the premise. I'm not saying you should not have an idea of what the "market" is paying and ask that from a potential employer. But knowing wha

You are mistaking the premise. I'm not saying you should not have an idea of what the "market" is paying and ask that from a potential employer. But knowing what the person next to you makes is an entirely different situation. I know there are employees next to me that make more/less than I do. I honestly don't care as long as I feel I'm making a fair salary for the work I perform. You can always get an idea of what the market is paying by talking to fellow employees outside the company or the recruiters that hit you up.

Retra 11y ago
You don't know what a fair salary is, because you don't know what your peers are earning. I mean, if you can find out what your competitors are paying their employees, surely their own employees can figure that out. So if you can figure it out, it's not a secret to anybody! The problem with your approach is that it is very easy to manipulate people when you permit a power/information differential like that. You end up saying "the slave is happy with the food we give him; why should we offer freedom?" -- when he's only happy with the food because you've been beating him for so long he's been conditioned into helpless appreciation of your scraps. You feel you're making a fair salary? Well then what is the harm of knowing your neighbor's salary? Are you going to learn a new meaning of 'fair?' What's the harm in that? That's just updating your priors and giving you the ability to make better decisions with more information. (That anyone would choose to reject relevant information when making decisions is the height of absurdity.)
- Dylan16807 11y ago
  A statistical summary of salary for the job is almost as good as knowing everyone's salary, and better than knowing the exact salary of your direct peers but not more. So in such a situation there's little upside. You already know you're not getting scraps. But there's a painful downside in knowing exactly who the company thinks does worse work than their direct peers.
  - woah 11y ago
    What are you talking about? Salary for equivalent positions is only tenuously connected to performance. The only people who benefit from salary secrecy are employers, and they benefit greatly.
    - Dylan16807 11y ago
      >Salary for equivalent positions is only tenuously connected to performance. But it's often supposed to be, and so salary differences can hurt feelings just as much as if the correlation was perfect. Or they can hurt feelings because the actual reason for the difference is unfair. >The only people who benefit from salary secrecy are employers, and they benefit greatly. Is that always the case? Remember, in this scenario we have a detailed knowledge of equivalent position salary, we just don't know which of those thousands of numbers belong to our coworkers. How does that remaining ignorance hurt me in any notable way?
  - Retra 11y ago
    There's a painful downside in knowing you have cancer, but that doesn't mean a doctor can (or should) withhold that information from you.
    - Dylan16807 11y ago
      You already know if you have cancer. The doctor not only can withhold information about your neighbor, they are mandated to.
      - Retra 11y ago
        You're taking the wrong part of that analogy. My point is that it is not the doctors responsibility to withhold information in the name of protecting me from "painful feelings." Other patient's health information isn't relevant to me. Other employee's pay is.
        Dylan16807 11y ago

Retra 11y ago

You don't know what a fair salary is, because you don't know what your peers are earning. I mean, if you can find out what your competitors are paying their employees, surely their own employees can figure that out. So if you can figure it out, it's not a secret to anybody! The problem with your approach is that it is very easy to manipulate people when you permit a power/information differential like that. You end up saying "the slave is happy with the food we give him; why should we offer freedom?" -- when he's only happy with the food because you've been beating him for so long he's been conditioned into helpless appreciation of your scraps. You feel you're making a fair salary? Well then what is the harm of knowing your neighbor's salary? Are you going to learn a new meaning of 'fair?' What's the harm in that? That's just updating your priors and giving you the ability to make better decisions with more information. (That anyone would choose to reject relevant information when making decisions is the height of absurdity.)

Dylan16807 11y ago
A statistical summary of salary for the job is almost as good as knowing everyone's salary, and better than knowing the exact salary of your direct peers but not more. So in such a situation there's little upside. You already know you're not getting scraps. But there's a painful downside in knowing exactly who the company thinks does worse work than their direct peers.
- woah 11y ago
  What are you talking about? Salary for equivalent positions is only tenuously connected to performance. The only people who benefit from salary secrecy are employers, and they benefit greatly.
  - Dylan16807 11y ago
    >Salary for equivalent positions is only tenuously connected to performance. But it's often supposed to be, and so salary differences can hurt feelings just as much as if the correlation was perfect. Or they can hurt feelings because the actual reason for the difference is unfair. >The only people who benefit from salary secrecy are employers, and they benefit greatly. Is that always the case? Remember, in this scenario we have a detailed knowledge of equivalent position salary, we just don't know which of those thousands of numbers belong to our coworkers. How does that remaining ignorance hurt me in any notable way?
- Retra 11y ago
  There's a painful downside in knowing you have cancer, but that doesn't mean a doctor can (or should) withhold that information from you.
  - Dylan16807 11y ago
    You already know if you have cancer. The doctor not only can withhold information about your neighbor, they are mandated to.
    - Retra 11y ago
      You're taking the wrong part of that analogy. My point is that it is not the doctors responsibility to withhold information in the name of protecting me from "painful feelings." Other patient's health information isn't relevant to me. Other employee's pay is.
      - Dylan16807 11y ago