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NASA’s New Horizons Discovers Frozen Plains in the Heart of Pluto’s ‘Heart’
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- leemac 11y agoSeems like this entire Pluto mission has opened up quite a few questions for Geologists. For such a small world so far from the sun, it sure has some very interesting features and characteristics. The recent mountain range photo/3D map was incredible. We live in some exciting times. Every few months we have a new probe somewhere teaching us so much about our tiny corner of the universe.
- melling 11y agoExciting times is a bit of a stretch. I was cutting black and white pictures from newspapers of Viking on Mars when I was a kid. 40 years later we're finally checking out Pluto. Things will get exciting when the cost drops 100x and we're beaming back hi-def video and images 24x7 from all the planets and moons in our solar system. Let's dream a little bigger and set the goal much higher.
- happyscrappy 11y agoSome people will always see the glass half empty. They are no fun to be around.
- melling 11y agoHalf empty? We put a drop of water in the glass! :-) Don't worry someone is working on making space flight cheap. In 20 years, the drone craze will go interplanetary. Gonna fund my Kickstarter?
- happyscrappy 11y agoIt takes a certain personality flaw to belittle such an engineering accomplishment.
- CamperBob2 11y agoEither he's editing his posts, or people are going a little nuts with the downvote button. He's not belittling anything, just expressing the same impatience that many of us feel when we regard how little progress has been made in space exploration during our lifetime.
- melling 11y agoNo editing. At least one person got it. Cost me a lot of karma. If you're 20 something, everything seems great. Guess we're not getting NASA's budget doubled.
- CamperBob2 11y ago(shrug) Moderation abuse is a fact of life on HN, so we might as well own it. I've got more hacker karma than the Dalai Fuckin' Lama, so I'll try to distract some of the assholes for you.
- Roboprog 11y agoToo bad "NERVA" never was developed for unmanned missions like this. Forget the little thermocouple can for electricity - give me an ENGINE, "Heinlein" style! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NERVA
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y agoI was in my teens when Voyager was a thing, and I am really impressed with the volume, variety, and quality of the modern space probe fleet. (Of course I want more, like Uranus and Neptune orbiters, but between Pluto and comets and asteroids and all those things on and around Mars, 2015 is a really incredible time for space)
- sp332 11y agoThis mission was launched 9 years ago. I'm surprised it even had 40GB of storage space. Mars gets within 0.3 AU of the Earth when the orbits line up. Pluto is at best 29 AU away. That's almost 100x harder, and it's amazing it took only 40 years.
- melling 11y agoAnd all those other problems like getting people to Mars, or the moons of Jupiter, for example, will be easier? All things with space are difficult, expensive, and possibly dangerous. Sure, getting to Pluto was difficult and cool, but that's the nature of space exploration.
- noselasd 11y agoWell it doesn't :) It has 8GB storage (and the backup has that much too).
- sp332 11y agoHm, maybe it was 40 gigabits = 5 gigabytes of data that it gathered from the flyby?
- InclinedPlane 11y agoFolks, I appreciate that you don't like melling's opinion here, I have problems with it too. But can we not create an echo chamber by downvoting it into oblivion? That's not what voting is for. Let him have his say, if you disagree, then post a response. The way to win an argument is not to bludgeon the opponent into silence.
- NhanH 11y agoOn HN, it's completely appropriate to use downvote for disagreement (this has came up over and over again, but I doubt it's gonna change). Generally, I tried not to downvote for just disagreement, but melling's comment is pretty much the text book sample of the middlebrow dismissal, or gratuitously negative that we try to avoid.
- melling 11y agoThat's incorrect. Why don't you read this 10 times then reread what I said. " We live in some exciting times. Every few months we have a new probe somewhere teaching us so much about our tiny corner of the universe." It's simply not accurate.
- NhanH 11y agoI was not one of those who downvoted you. And on further reading of your comments, it looks like you are commenting on the political climate of our society (no one cares about space/ science etc.), rather than specific engineering ability of the probe/ the team involves. It is a popular sentiment, and I can say that a lot of us would agree with it. But your original comment read very much like belittling the current Pluto mission, which is a different thing and very much not welcomed here. I mean, we even try not to complain too much for the 10000 JS frameworks being posted here, let alone another probe in space.
- eCa 11y ago> very much not welcomed here While I agree with your first paragraph, I have issues with sweeping statements as to which viewpoints are welcome here. While I, as stated, disagree with melling's opinion in this matter, he is more than welcome to have it and make it known. Just as those who don't agree, through downvote or response, are welcome to their view.
- melling 11y ago"We live in some exciting times". Here's another perspective about the times: "The dark future of American space exploration" http://www.vox.com/2015/2/23/8052365/nasa-budget-europa http://www.vox.com/2015/2/23/8052365/nasa-budget-europa Submitted to HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9906017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9906017 "If NASA's New Horizons mission to Pluto is extended beyond 2017, the entire active human presence at the outer planets will consist of a single probe the size of a grand piano"
- trhway 11y agoyou're right. Yet what do you want from an ape species who makes beheading videos and posts them on entertainment sites? There are huge chances that we may be at some bifurcation point before very possible fall into Dark Ages or into collapsing into a planetary-sized self-centered ant colony (which i think is among the main traps what most early technological civilizations in the Universe fall into (other trap being of course is an all out nuke war)).
- ChrisGranger 11y agoISIS and their ilk are such a small percentage of what humanity is all about. Don't look at them and think that we're moving towards a new Dark Age. Life in much of the world is as good as it has ever been.
- happyscrappy 11y agoI would love it if NASA's budget was ten times bigger but the U.S. already spends more than everyone else combined.
- melling 11y agoThe last time the NASA budget was this low as a percentage of the federal budget was 1961. It's really bad that this isn't well understood on a site like HN. If we can't justify it here... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA#/media/File:NASA-Budget-Federal.svg https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA#/media/File:N...
- BurningFrog 11y agoStunning. I expected just another dusty cratered rock.
- erobbins 11y agoSame.. I thought it would be a super cold version of mercury but it's a living changing world, amazing stuff.
- gizmo686 11y agoSo did the scientists. In fact, the lack of craters is really suprising because it suggests that Pluto is still active, which would require a hot core. Unlike other bodies it the solar system we have observed, we cannot attribute this to tidal forces, as none of Pluto's moons are big enough [1], which means there is a currently unknown mechanism powering Pluto. [1] And even if the big one, Charon, was, it is tidally locked in Pluto-stationary orbit.
- kijin 11y agoIt's probably too early to start guessing, but have scientists come up with any possible explanation for the "hot core" yet? Could Pluto have an unusually large amount of radioactive elements in its core, despite its low density overall? Could it have recently collided with a large KBO, melting much of the surface even though the core is long dead? Could it have been subjected to large tidal forces relatively recently, e.g. it was much closer to Neptune until a few hundred million years ago?
- BurningFrog 11y ago> Could Pluto have an unusually large amount of radioactive elements in its core I heard Real Scientists mention that as a possibility. We didn't expect much radioactive material out there, but we also have very little real knowledge. I can't be the only one hoping Pluto is shaped by Plutonium? > Could it have recently collided with a large KBO I like that idea. I guess a planet that is mainly ice could absorb that without showing obvious scars. > Could it have been subjected to large tidal forces relatively recently I think it has to have been a moon of Neptune for that to have any major effect. Don't know if that's at all feasible.
- mkoryak 11y ago"Data from New Horizons will continue to fuel discovery for years to come.” why will it take years?
- aggie 11y agoThey are gathering a lot of data but their transmission speeds back to Earth are very slow. They are also including a lot of redundancy in their transmission from what I understand, since there is a several year window to transmit so they might as well use it.
- Steuard 11y agoAdding to that, it will take time to develop models that can explain these unexpected features! Even with all the data in hand, it may take a number of years of intense study and perhaps simulation to make a convincing case for any single explanation.
- zaphar 11y agoFor one thing the data is sent back very slowly. Estimates are that it will take New Horizons roughly 16 months to send it all back. Then you have to sort through and analyze it and use it to verify predictions formulate new hypotheses and so on. The data will still be impacting scientific progress for years after we get it all and sort through it.
- Semiapies 11y agoBesides the time it'll take to actually receive at the probe's low bandwidth, it'll take a lot of time for people to study and interpret.
- mkddrm 11y agoIf NASA approves additional funding for NH next year, it will be flying by another Kuiper belt object in a few years. It looks like either 2014 MU69 or 2014 PN70. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_MU69 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_MU69 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_PN70 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_PN70
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- aklein 11y agoThe numerical accuracy and calculations needed for getting the spacecraft so close to Pluto must be pretty awesome. Does anyone know what the precision is on calculations like these? Also, anyone know why the spacecraft has to do a flyby, as opposed to, say, going into orbit around Pluto? Is it because the fuel involved in slowing down the spacecraft would be forbiddingly heavy?
- Thorondor 11y agoYes, basically slowing down enough to orbit Pluto would have required too much extra launch weight, although the difference isn't enormous. The best candidate, a nuclear-electric propulsion system, would have approximately doubled the spacecraft's mass. This Stack Exchange question has more information: http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/9851/requirements-to-orbit-pluto http://space.stackexchange.com/questions/9851/requirements-t...
- rootbear 11y agoNice discussion, thanks for posting.
- jkachmar 11y agoAdditionally, from the linked paper [1], it would have required a 15 year transfer phase and a more capable launcher than the Atlas V. The report proposed using a then-unavailable Ariane 5 variant, which would have delayed the launch to 2016 (to line up the gravity assist with Jupiter) and put the final encounter with Pluto at June 2033. [1] http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/doc/PRO/ACT-RPR-PRO-ISTS2004-Pluto.pdf http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/doc/PRO/ACT-RPR-PRO-ISTS2004-Plut...
- yellowapple 11y agoSo basically, if we can build a new probe within the next year and a half, and if this new Arianne variant is now available, we might have a chance of sending an orbiter to reach Pluto by 2033? That sounds like an opportunity that's too good to pass up if we can pull it off. I mean, the flyby's awesome, and it's bound to give us all sorts of new insights on the formation of the Solar System, but having a permanent orbiter there would let us continually study Pluto (and its moons), giving us that degree of information on a continuous basis.
- ajays 11y agoWhere did the water come from on Pluto?
- Splendor 11y agoNot all of the ice is water ice. Some is methane ice, carbon monoxide ice, etc. That being said, I've definitely heard members of the New Horizons team speculating about water ice being responsible for some of the mountains they've seen and even the idea of Pluto having an internal ocean at some point.
- idlewords 11y agoThey mentioned that methane ice and CO ice are not strong enough to make mountains out of, but that water ice at those temperatures is.
- sliverstorm 11y agoSupposedly water ice is the most common ice in the universe though.
- gizmo686 11y agoTo expand on the internal ocean point: One of the big problems with Pluto is that we would not expect it to still be active. One of the hypothesis that has been proposed is that the heat from Pluto's formation is trapped in an internal ocean and is slowly being released as the ocean freezes. Of course, even if this isn't what is powering Pluto, the other mechanism might still make the core hot enough for liquid water.
- gregor7777 11y agoWater is plentiful in our solar system. Much of it is locked up as ice, but it appears there is lots of it in liquid form underneath the ice in several moons as well.
- olentangy 11y agoIt's just oxidized hydrogen. Hydrogen is the most common element in the universe. Oxygen is the third most common.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- yk 11y agoIf anybody else has the problem that the first and last word of each line is cropped, just disable the ".after-body, .article-body" css. This brings back the scroll bars.
- atorralb 11y agoan image search and it comes out alot of old concrete walls... wtf? https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&imgil=5aN7IeRgNSROxM%253A%253Be0ydH3kgOUanNM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fmxgem.com%25252Fcement-wall.html&source=iu&pf=m&tbs=simg:CAES0AEazQELEKjU2AQaAggDDAsQsIynCBpfCl0IAxInlQZTxhWWAdQHlAbRB7cB0wfSB-o31ijgIek35SfeKN4p6zfyN9coGjBp3W2RRFi4SPoHYjxHphGVCXR3FnoGj9JgOxICbwxpPTfDNBIumJiPXaigKF4GzMkMCxCOrv4IGgoKCAgBEgQLG_1RpDAsQne3BCRo-ChEKD2JsYWNrIGFuZCB3aGl0ZQoGCgR3YWxsCgcKBWZsb29yCgoKCG1hdGVyaWFsCgwKCm1vbm9jaHJvbWUM&fir=5aN7IeRgNSROxM%253A%252Ce0ydH3kgOUanNM%252C_&usg=__VO_hG5r7hi__xUqX8sBSClvYXSI%3D#imgrc=UqnRtPx3jyjxQM%3A&usg=__VO_hG5r7hi__xUqX8sBSClvYXSI%3D https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&imgil=5aN7IeRgNSROxM%...
- ashhimself 11y agoSerious question; how would they know it's no more than 100million years old. I consider myself a some what smart guy but this is... beyond me :)
- BurningFrog 11y agoBecause there are so very few craters. During the 4+ billion years we thing Pluto has been around, vastly more objects should have crashed into it. If the surface is 100 million years or less, the number of craters makes sense. Or we could have some other basic assumption wrong. Science has only known about this since this morning...
- fernly 11y agoCraters, or lack thereof. They assume some rate of impacts, validate against other parts of the surface, other planets, and Chiron. No craters, the surface has been remodeled too recently for impacts to mark it.
- ams6110 11y agoWhat an annoying amount of crap on that page for a publicly funded website. Even the back button is hijacked.
- evantahler 11y agoSo... can Pluto be a planet again?