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Love the concept not sure the math works out: Maxed out iOS app shows: 35 person-days UI/UX + 162 person-days dev = $88,650 $88,650 / (35 person-days + 162 p

by amichal 11y ago

Love the concept not sure the math works out: Maxed out iOS app shows: 35 person-days UI/UX + 162 person-days dev = $88,650 $88,650 / (35 person-days + 162 person-days) / 8 hr/day = $56.25/hr per person average cost. Assuming the labor estimate is correct, if anyone knows of iOS developers skilled enough to pull that off for 56.25/hr fully-loaded labor costs I'd like to meet them. (e.g. who is coordinating the work and working with the client on evolving specs/feedback)

dynjo 11y ago
We are based in Bangkok :-)
- amichal 11y ago
  I understand and I know it's just an estimating tool but are you saying I can hire your team to deliver a gold-plated does everything iOS app with geolocation, health and sensor inputs, a top-notice design, etc including the detailed functional requirements (we all know what clients think is a complete specification), tested and delivered in the app store for 1,576hrs of billable work at $56/h total cost to me including any overhead you may have (like your market street sf office)?
  - nathan_f77 11y ago
    Sounds very reasonable to me. $56/h is above the market rate for Thailand, Eastern Europe, Russia, etc.
    - djb_hackernews 11y ago
      I think the point was you get what you pay for. $56/hr is probably above market rate in those locations for straight up development work, not the fully loaded costs of a project that size which will need to include requirements gathering, design, UX, testing, integration, etc outside of straight up development work.
  - dynjo 11y ago
    Our hourly works out slightly more than this, but yes the economics work because of the geo-arbitrage. We are actually a 6 year old western company based in Bangkok. We have worked with many big name startups very successfully.
    - lords 11y ago
      Any names to mention checked your site and didn't see much.
  - matwood 11y ago
    You have just described why so much offshoring moved back to the US. If you need something cookie cutter that has already been done, sure, but then why are you building something that's already been done? If you have all the infrastructure to take everything else out of the equation except the raw development, then it often still makes sense to have a developer or 2 full time to maintain the app and understand the business needs. I bet the offshore guys get a lot of work from all of the "I have an idea!" people though.
- reustle 11y ago
  Would love to grab coffee! (No contact info in your profile)
- dawson 11y ago
  Could you link here to a few apps which you have have built and designed at that price and within the timeframe?
  - dynjo 11y ago
    Here is a recent one https://slimwiki.com https://slimwiki.com
marpalmin 11y ago
We can do that. We are based in Spain and Uruguay. www.decemberlabs.com
pyvpx 11y ago
anyone not in SF/LA/NYC?
- amichal 11y ago
  I recognize the poster is not in the US but to answer your question: According to the BLS the average hourly wage (not including overhead) of ALL us software developers is 45.81/hr. I would expect iOS developers to command a premium. Typical overhead of office space, management, equipment, benefits etc could easily add 50-100% Occupation: Software Developers and Programmers (SOC code 151130) Period: May 2014 Area name: National Hourly mean wage: 45.81 SOC code: Standard Occupational Classification code -- see http://www.bls.gov/soc/home.htm http://www.bls.gov/soc/home.htm Data extracted on July 16, 2015
jheriko 11y ago
> who is coordinating the work and working with the client on evolving specs/feedback this is always a massive potential time sink and risk.
JamesBarney 11y ago
from OP : "To be clear, this does not replace an official estimate (we also do not like fixed estimates and prefer agile pricing)" Which is a very different type of estimate from fixed bid :), and makes this much more achievable especially when you're based out of Thailand. This seems to me like get the client in the door, introductory pricing. The website looks great, and hopefully they'll get a lot of new leads from it.

by amichal 11y ago

dynjo 11y ago

We are based in Bangkok :-)

amichal 11y ago
I understand and I know it's just an estimating tool but are you saying I can hire your team to deliver a gold-plated does everything iOS app with geolocation, health and sensor inputs, a top-notice design, etc including the detailed functional requirements (we all know what clients think is a complete specification), tested and delivered in the app store for 1,576hrs of billable work at $56/h total cost to me including any overhead you may have (like your market street sf office)?
- nathan_f77 11y ago
  Sounds very reasonable to me. $56/h is above the market rate for Thailand, Eastern Europe, Russia, etc.
  - djb_hackernews 11y ago
    I think the point was you get what you pay for. $56/hr is probably above market rate in those locations for straight up development work, not the fully loaded costs of a project that size which will need to include requirements gathering, design, UX, testing, integration, etc outside of straight up development work.
- dynjo 11y ago
  Our hourly works out slightly more than this, but yes the economics work because of the geo-arbitrage. We are actually a 6 year old western company based in Bangkok. We have worked with many big name startups very successfully.
  - lords 11y ago
    Any names to mention checked your site and didn't see much.
- matwood 11y ago
  You have just described why so much offshoring moved back to the US. If you need something cookie cutter that has already been done, sure, but then why are you building something that's already been done? If you have all the infrastructure to take everything else out of the equation except the raw development, then it often still makes sense to have a developer or 2 full time to maintain the app and understand the business needs. I bet the offshore guys get a lot of work from all of the "I have an idea!" people though.
reustle 11y ago
Would love to grab coffee! (No contact info in your profile)
dawson 11y ago
Could you link here to a few apps which you have have built and designed at that price and within the timeframe?
- dynjo 11y ago
  Here is a recent one https://slimwiki.com https://slimwiki.com

marpalmin 11y ago

We can do that. We are based in Spain and Uruguay. www.decemberlabs.com

pyvpx 11y ago

anyone not in SF/LA/NYC?

amichal 11y ago
I recognize the poster is not in the US but to answer your question: According to the BLS the average hourly wage (not including overhead) of ALL us software developers is 45.81/hr. I would expect iOS developers to command a premium. Typical overhead of office space, management, equipment, benefits etc could easily add 50-100% Occupation: Software Developers and Programmers (SOC code 151130) Period: May 2014 Area name: National Hourly mean wage: 45.81 SOC code: Standard Occupational Classification code -- see http://www.bls.gov/soc/home.htm http://www.bls.gov/soc/home.htm Data extracted on July 16, 2015

jheriko 11y ago

> who is coordinating the work and working with the client on evolving specs/feedback this is always a massive potential time sink and risk.

JamesBarney 11y ago

from OP : "To be clear, this does not replace an official estimate (we also do not like fixed estimates and prefer agile pricing)" Which is a very different type of estimate from fixed bid :), and makes this much more achievable especially when you're based out of Thailand. This seems to me like get the client in the door, introductory pricing. The website looks great, and hopefully they'll get a lot of new leads from it.