4 ms·

Or is there? These regulations pre-dated the internet. They existed in a time before information was easily shared and available. If I wanted to know how "Yell

Or is there? These regulations pre-dated the internet. They existed in a time before information was easily shared and available. If I wanted to know how "Yellow Taxi Co" vetted its drivers in 1980, I would have needed to write letters and wait weeks for a response. That's not practical when I desperately need to get somewhere stat. But now, I can open up my phone and find out how exactly Uber vets drivers in a minute. If I don't like that, I can use Lyft. Or SideCar. Or, call a cab. I see these regulations like forcing drills to come with a OCR "Don't it yourself" failsafe. I'm an adult. I can choose my own 'risk vs cost' profile. Let me decide, and cut the red tape.

scott_karana 11y ago
Do you know how the highway construction is vetted, how your cell phone batteries are vetted, how the gasoline additives are vetted, how the driver's licensing scheme in California is vetted, how vehicle import regulations are vetted, how traffic signals are vetted, etc? Any of these could cause non-negligible personal risk, none of it your fault. For extra fun, imagine changing jurisdictions frequently and doing all that research over again. Uber's economic model is maybe not my business, but my safety using them sure as hell is. I don't want to second-guess whether drinking water is safe, food, etc. Nor do I want to have to Google whether it's safe merely to hail a cab-like service. It's absurd to expect everyone to take 100% responsibility for all external factors beyond their control. At least some common, important factors need to be regulated simply to spare redundant burden on the populace.
- the_ancient 11y ago
  your absolute faith in government to protect you is astounding
  - scott_karana 11y ago
    I don't have the resources to do everything myself. Nor do you. A little altruism is required for societies to function. (Nor did I say complete altruism is required)
  - pm24601 11y ago
    And your absolute faith in your ability to evaluate all risks is stupifying.
- icebraining 11y ago
  But as Uber itself shows, the fact that a licensing system exists doesn't mean that all services are compliant. So you already can't assume everything is safe - you're just self-deceiving yourself into a sense of false security.
  - scott_karana 11y ago
    Yeah, obviously nobody can ever fully drop their defenses, nor totally disclaim personal liability. In all the examples above, there's still room/need to stop aberrant behavior, eg, "why is this water so cloudy?! maybe I shouldn't drink it!"
pm24601 11y ago
As dragonwriter said: "You realize the law at issue is a law Uber supported which legalized ridesharing services in California?"
threeseed 11y ago
> I'm an adult. I can choose my own 'risk vs cost' profile. How does that work if you are drunk, otherwise incapacitated or raped ? Pretty sure you are going to begging at that point for more regulation. You can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Some regulations generally make the situation safer for everyone.
- icebraining 11y ago
  You mean raped and robbed, like the Brooklyn woman who entered a licensed NYC cab in February? Or raped and kidnapped, like the victim of licensed NYC cab driver Gurmeet Singh? Or maybe sexually assaulted while sleeping, like the passenger of licensed Chicago taxi driver Tajamul Syed?
  - Hasu 11y ago
    No one said that regulations are going to make everyone perfectly safe all the time. However, you cannot convince me that people will somehow be safer with no regulations.
Sanddancer 11y ago
In 1980, I'd be able to tell how Yellow Cab vetted their drivers by the fact that their ad in the phone book had a PUC license number. I could then call the PUC and ask what requirements there are for a taxi cab. With the driver, I'd see a card prominently placed in the vehicle, which gave the driver's taxi license number, a photograph, and when the license expires. These are the bits of vetting that uber doesn't do, and turns a blind eye when people discuss how they work around uber's requirements for vetting [1]. The problem with uber is they've made it entirely too easy to game the system, because they'd much rather have drivers than safety. [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-driver-heres-how-we-get-around-background-checks-1596982249 http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-driver-heres-how-we-get-aro...
s73v3r 11y ago
"These regulations pre-dated the internet. " That means absolutely nothing. People were capable of making decisions before the internet, you know. "They existed in a time before information was easily shared and available. If I wanted to know how "Yellow Taxi Co" vetted its drivers in 1980, I would have needed to write letters and wait weeks for a response. That's not practical when I desperately need to get somewhere stat." And even with the internet, verifying all of that, and making sure that it's accurate, up to date, and not just astroturfing isn't practical either.
DanBC 11y ago
> I'm an adult. I can choose my own 'risk vs cost' profile. Most adults are terrible at assessing risk. Why are you different? What do you do to protect yourself from the cognitive biases that everyone has?
prostoalex 11y ago
> These regulations pre-dated the internet. They existed in a time before information was easily shared and available. That's cool, any tips on how I can easily pull driver's arrest record and history of traffic violations? I would also like some data on his last inspections to ensure that he's doing proper maintenance to his vehicle, and I'm not going to ride a beater who needs some break fluid and whose tires skid just a little in rainy weather.

scott_karana 11y ago

Do you know how the highway construction is vetted, how your cell phone batteries are vetted, how the gasoline additives are vetted, how the driver's licensing scheme in California is vetted, how vehicle import regulations are vetted, how traffic signals are vetted, etc? Any of these could cause non-negligible personal risk, none of it your fault. For extra fun, imagine changing jurisdictions frequently and doing all that research over again. Uber's economic model is maybe not my business, but my safety using them sure as hell is. I don't want to second-guess whether drinking water is safe, food, etc. Nor do I want to have to Google whether it's safe merely to hail a cab-like service. It's absurd to expect everyone to take 100% responsibility for all external factors beyond their control. At least some common, important factors need to be regulated simply to spare redundant burden on the populace.

the_ancient 11y ago
your absolute faith in government to protect you is astounding
- scott_karana 11y ago
  I don't have the resources to do everything myself. Nor do you. A little altruism is required for societies to function. (Nor did I say complete altruism is required)
- pm24601 11y ago
  And your absolute faith in your ability to evaluate all risks is stupifying.
icebraining 11y ago
But as Uber itself shows, the fact that a licensing system exists doesn't mean that all services are compliant. So you already can't assume everything is safe - you're just self-deceiving yourself into a sense of false security.
- scott_karana 11y ago
  Yeah, obviously nobody can ever fully drop their defenses, nor totally disclaim personal liability. In all the examples above, there's still room/need to stop aberrant behavior, eg, "why is this water so cloudy?! maybe I shouldn't drink it!"

pm24601 11y ago

As dragonwriter said: "You realize the law at issue is a law Uber supported which legalized ridesharing services in California?"

threeseed 11y ago

> I'm an adult. I can choose my own 'risk vs cost' profile. How does that work if you are drunk, otherwise incapacitated or raped ? Pretty sure you are going to begging at that point for more regulation. You can't just throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Some regulations generally make the situation safer for everyone.

icebraining 11y ago
You mean raped and robbed, like the Brooklyn woman who entered a licensed NYC cab in February? Or raped and kidnapped, like the victim of licensed NYC cab driver Gurmeet Singh? Or maybe sexually assaulted while sleeping, like the passenger of licensed Chicago taxi driver Tajamul Syed?
- Hasu 11y ago
  No one said that regulations are going to make everyone perfectly safe all the time. However, you cannot convince me that people will somehow be safer with no regulations.

Sanddancer 11y ago

In 1980, I'd be able to tell how Yellow Cab vetted their drivers by the fact that their ad in the phone book had a PUC license number. I could then call the PUC and ask what requirements there are for a taxi cab. With the driver, I'd see a card prominently placed in the vehicle, which gave the driver's taxi license number, a photograph, and when the license expires. These are the bits of vetting that uber doesn't do, and turns a blind eye when people discuss how they work around uber's requirements for vetting [1]. The problem with uber is they've made it entirely too easy to game the system, because they'd much rather have drivers than safety. [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-driver-heres-how-we-get-around-background-checks-1596982249 http://valleywag.gawker.com/uber-driver-heres-how-we-get-aro...

s73v3r 11y ago

"These regulations pre-dated the internet. " That means absolutely nothing. People were capable of making decisions before the internet, you know. "They existed in a time before information was easily shared and available. If I wanted to know how "Yellow Taxi Co" vetted its drivers in 1980, I would have needed to write letters and wait weeks for a response. That's not practical when I desperately need to get somewhere stat." And even with the internet, verifying all of that, and making sure that it's accurate, up to date, and not just astroturfing isn't practical either.

DanBC 11y ago

> I'm an adult. I can choose my own 'risk vs cost' profile. Most adults are terrible at assessing risk. Why are you different? What do you do to protect yourself from the cognitive biases that everyone has?

prostoalex 11y ago

> These regulations pre-dated the internet. They existed in a time before information was easily shared and available. That's cool, any tips on how I can easily pull driver's arrest record and history of traffic violations? I would also like some data on his last inspections to ensure that he's doing proper maintenance to his vehicle, and I'm not going to ride a beater who needs some break fluid and whose tires skid just a little in rainy weather.