4 ms·

> We need a real open-source alternative to flash player. We quietly built the alternative to Flash over the last 10 years. It's called the web. A standard do

> We need a real open-source alternative to flash player. We quietly built the alternative to Flash over the last 10 years. It's called the web. A standard document in the web browser can play audio, video, display vector graphics, utilise OpenGL, supports direct drawing via Canvas, and it is deeply scriptable with a mature, open programming language. What else do you need?

fuzzix 11y ago
Copy to clipboard, apparently. (Github project pages have a flash application to handle this)
- realityking 11y ago
  Good news, we're getting there. In Chrome 43 and (probably) Firefox it's supported: http://caniuse.com/#search=clipb http://caniuse.com/#search=clipb (see note 3) However the API is god awful.
  - jumpwah 11y ago
    Isn't this like a huge security risk?
    - mrec 11y ago
      Why? Copy FROM clipboard would be, sure. Copy TO clipboard... OK, I can come up with scenarios where it'd be a problem, but they're pretty far-fetched.
      - gsnedders 11y ago
        Run a timer overwriting your clipboard every 10ms. Prevent you from copying anything off a webpage and instead replacing it with a copyright notice. Etc., etc., etc.
        realityking 11y ago
        There's a permission prompt for first use and I think Mozilla considers making it https only.
        cpeterso 11y ago
        Flash has offered these same clipboard APIs for years and these clipboard "attacks" have never been a problem before. I don't see how replacing Flash clipboard APIs with HTML clipboard APIs will change web developers' behavior.
      - Crito 11y ago
        Well there are attacks in the vein of this: https://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste https://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste
  - gsnedders 11y ago
    > However the API is god awful. To be fair, it's basically a proprietary IE5 API that's now been standardised (like quite a few others).
- kedean 11y ago
  Is that why I keep getting notifications that github wants to use flash player? Good to know.
HugoDaniel 11y ago
Sorry, i meant alternative to the closed source flash player, keeping the same spec and not breaking compatibility. As implied by the comment.
- yazaddaruvala 11y ago
  You might be interested in https://github.com/mozilla/shumway https://github.com/mozilla/shumway
  - HugoDaniel 11y ago
    I knew of gnash, but this is another story. Amazing, thanks.
probably_wrong 11y ago
> What else do you need? I need all of those things to look exactly the same in each and every browser, instead of corrupted icons or broken navigation because the developer tested it in Chrome for Windows but neglected, say, Iceweasel for Debian. I have yet to find a non-flash game capable of doing that. And if the alternative is "we should discard this closed binary that works in every platform in favor of this free-but-browser-dependant stack", I find that odd.
- IshKebab 11y ago
  Well then you don't want an open source Flash, because that will undoubtedly be different to the official one in the same way that browsers are different to each other.
- shinratdr 11y ago
  > because the developer tested it in Chrome for Windows but neglected, say, Iceweasel for Debian. Bad example, because Flash for Linux has been discontinued in all flavours except PPAPI so it wouldn't work in Iceweasel.
michaelpinto 11y ago
The age old test of any platform is the ability to run games, and HTML5 just isn't there when put next to Flash or native apps. And I'm not talking the bleeding edge stuff, but simple things like getting sound to work between browsers (a task that Flash did very well). Although to be fair the gatekeepers of browsers are Apple and Google who want you to pay the app store tax.
dingaling 11y ago
> We quietly built the alternative to Flash over the last 10 years. It's called the web. The 'Web' can't play video or audio, the 'Web' needs plug-ins to do so. Plug-ins like H264 decoders and Flash.
- acdha 11y ago
  That's like saying “The ‘Web’ can't display images, the ‘Web’ needs plug-ins to do so. Plug-ins like libjpeg or giflib”. Right now, you can put a <video> or <audio> tag on a page and it will work in something like 95% of the browsers in use. That's already better than Flash and going up as IE8 users upgrade to newer versions of IE or install Chrome/Flash. Sure, you can't rely on users not recompiling their browser to disable it but you also can't rely on 100% support for anything on the web – users disable image loading, plugins, stylesheets or JavaScript, install incredibly overzealous ad-blockers, use ISPs which tamper with page contents, etc.
  - geofft 11y ago
    Yup. Remember back when you actually needed helper applications to display certain image types? https://www.as.cmu.edu/application/pref_1.gif https://www.as.cmu.edu/application/pref_1.gif
    - acdha 11y ago
      Or when GIF required a license to implement so people actually had to disable it until the Unisys patents expired. That was fun…
sethd 11y ago
* Streaming of live video using a single protocol across all browsers. (Some browsers don't even support a live streaming protocol) * Adaptive bit rate video streaming (recorded or live) Nice to have but not required: * Full H.264/AAC support across all browser. Unfortunately Flash is the only viable solution for the above right now.

fuzzix 11y ago

Copy to clipboard, apparently. (Github project pages have a flash application to handle this)

realityking 11y ago
Good news, we're getting there. In Chrome 43 and (probably) Firefox it's supported: http://caniuse.com/#search=clipb http://caniuse.com/#search=clipb (see note 3) However the API is god awful.
- jumpwah 11y ago
  Isn't this like a huge security risk?
  - mrec 11y ago
    Why? Copy FROM clipboard would be, sure. Copy TO clipboard... OK, I can come up with scenarios where it'd be a problem, but they're pretty far-fetched.
    - gsnedders 11y ago
      Run a timer overwriting your clipboard every 10ms. Prevent you from copying anything off a webpage and instead replacing it with a copyright notice. Etc., etc., etc.
      - realityking 11y ago
        There's a permission prompt for first use and I think Mozilla considers making it https only.
      - cpeterso 11y ago
        Flash has offered these same clipboard APIs for years and these clipboard "attacks" have never been a problem before. I don't see how replacing Flash clipboard APIs with HTML clipboard APIs will change web developers' behavior.
    - Crito 11y ago
      Well there are attacks in the vein of this: https://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste https://thejh.net/misc/website-terminal-copy-paste
- gsnedders 11y ago
  > However the API is god awful. To be fair, it's basically a proprietary IE5 API that's now been standardised (like quite a few others).
kedean 11y ago
Is that why I keep getting notifications that github wants to use flash player? Good to know.

HugoDaniel 11y ago

Sorry, i meant alternative to the closed source flash player, keeping the same spec and not breaking compatibility. As implied by the comment.

yazaddaruvala 11y ago
You might be interested in https://github.com/mozilla/shumway https://github.com/mozilla/shumway
- HugoDaniel 11y ago
  I knew of gnash, but this is another story. Amazing, thanks.

probably_wrong 11y ago

> What else do you need? I need all of those things to look exactly the same in each and every browser, instead of corrupted icons or broken navigation because the developer tested it in Chrome for Windows but neglected, say, Iceweasel for Debian. I have yet to find a non-flash game capable of doing that. And if the alternative is "we should discard this closed binary that works in every platform in favor of this free-but-browser-dependant stack", I find that odd.

IshKebab 11y ago
Well then you don't want an open source Flash, because that will undoubtedly be different to the official one in the same way that browsers are different to each other.
shinratdr 11y ago
> because the developer tested it in Chrome for Windows but neglected, say, Iceweasel for Debian. Bad example, because Flash for Linux has been discontinued in all flavours except PPAPI so it wouldn't work in Iceweasel.

michaelpinto 11y ago

The age old test of any platform is the ability to run games, and HTML5 just isn't there when put next to Flash or native apps. And I'm not talking the bleeding edge stuff, but simple things like getting sound to work between browsers (a task that Flash did very well). Although to be fair the gatekeepers of browsers are Apple and Google who want you to pay the app store tax.

dingaling 11y ago

> We quietly built the alternative to Flash over the last 10 years. It's called the web. The 'Web' can't play video or audio, the 'Web' needs plug-ins to do so. Plug-ins like H264 decoders and Flash.

acdha 11y ago
That's like saying “The ‘Web’ can't display images, the ‘Web’ needs plug-ins to do so. Plug-ins like libjpeg or giflib”. Right now, you can put a <video> or <audio> tag on a page and it will work in something like 95% of the browsers in use. That's already better than Flash and going up as IE8 users upgrade to newer versions of IE or install Chrome/Flash. Sure, you can't rely on users not recompiling their browser to disable it but you also can't rely on 100% support for anything on the web – users disable image loading, plugins, stylesheets or JavaScript, install incredibly overzealous ad-blockers, use ISPs which tamper with page contents, etc.
- geofft 11y ago
  Yup. Remember back when you actually needed helper applications to display certain image types? https://www.as.cmu.edu/application/pref_1.gif https://www.as.cmu.edu/application/pref_1.gif
  - acdha 11y ago
    Or when GIF required a license to implement so people actually had to disable it until the Unisys patents expired. That was fun…

sethd 11y ago

* Streaming of live video using a single protocol across all browsers. (Some browsers don't even support a live streaming protocol) * Adaptive bit rate video streaming (recorded or live) Nice to have but not required: * Full H.264/AAC support across all browser. Unfortunately Flash is the only viable solution for the above right now.