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> Yor're assuming that all users are equal and the important thing is raw eyeballs. I really don't get how you are taking that from what I said. Of course I d

> Yor're assuming that all users are equal and the important thing is raw eyeballs. I really don't get how you are taking that from what I said. Of course I don't think all users are equal or that users and advertisers won't be driven away by bad behavior. It would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. My point is that, if management comes in swinging a white sword they will inevitably suffer a net loss. As I said, the community can be nudged in one direction or another—quite significantly given sufficient understanding and guile on the part of management—but you can't declare Reddit "broken" and then "fix" it. Even if you assume Reddit has "failed" (which I don't, but even granting that), the changes you need to make will drive away many more users than it ever attracts, because the "good" potential users are already turned off by Reddit, and the existing users will be alienated. If management comes in with the mentality of needing to "fix" Reddit then they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Fortunately such axiomatic pessimism in Reddit is unfounded—I get how it is not what a heavy-handed SV elite megalomaniacal MBA wants in his portfolio, but that doesn't mean it can't be a successful business on its own terms.

krschultz 11y ago
> the changes you need to make will drive away many more users than it ever attracts, because the "good" potential users are already turned off by Reddit, and the existing users will be alienated. That's an assumption. Based on no data. I know plenty of people, myself included, that have no interest in Reddit as it is today. I know a few interesting sub-Reddits but I don't want to deal with that community right now. If the community changes I would be more interested. I'm not going to spend my time contributing to a sub-Reddit if it's the kind of place that is shitty to people I'm friends with. No thanks.
- dasil003 11y ago
  > That's an assumption. Based on no data. Yes it is, in fact it is more than just an assumption, it is my thesis. Also you seem to be using "no data" as a pejorative, but I challenge you to produce any data on this topic period. Some things are intractable or at the very least incredibly expensive to conduct good science around, and if you refuse to consider a topic without data you will be paralyzed. Like the OA I have been participating in online communities for a very long time (ran my first BBS starting in 1988), so I have a pretty strong sense of how they live and die. One of the things I've learned is that what people say they will do in the face of some future changes correlates terribly with what they actually end up doing when said change is put into effect. Therefore, the last thing I would do is throw a grenade into my community in the hopes of attracting you and your friends who are put off by the current state of affairs.
- MBCook 11y ago
  I've really enjoyed a ton of my time on Reddit, and I'm not ready to jump ship yet. But if I were to find out about it recently? Knowing what's happened in the last year (or even few months) I would certainly stay away.
MBCook 11y ago
> I really don't get how you are taking that from what I said. It seemed to me that you were suggesting that shedding users is bad for Reddit. I think shedding a very small select percentage of the users could be a huge benefit for the site. Remove some of the worst who don't add anything positive to the site and make an example out of them. Draw the line in the sand clear and bold. That will get rid of some of the worst elements, and encourage others to behave better. I'm sure you'll lose people at first but in the long run I think it would benefit the site and its growth.
- snogglethorpe 11y ago
  One problem is that the current kerfuffle is likely to have the opposite effect: they'll shed "good" users, and keep the douchenozzles... ><
darreld 11y ago
Any 'nudging' that is like the recent banning FPH is the same as a white sword to a sizable, at least vocal, segment of the community. I agree with the article that management is in a pretty bad spot. I've been on Reddit for years but I now notice that a lot of it seems to have a 'bad neighborhood' feel. I'm not sure it has a long life as a desirable destination.
- mavhc 11y ago
  My proposed solution is: move any subreddit you (The owners of the site) deem to be full of assholes to a different set of servers, that aren't free to use. If you want to be in a group full of assholes, you have to pay. Now you've split reddit into the normal people and the assholes, and they'll either have to pay, or stop being assholes and beg you to take them back.

krschultz 11y ago

> the changes you need to make will drive away many more users than it ever attracts, because the "good" potential users are already turned off by Reddit, and the existing users will be alienated. That's an assumption. Based on no data. I know plenty of people, myself included, that have no interest in Reddit as it is today. I know a few interesting sub-Reddits but I don't want to deal with that community right now. If the community changes I would be more interested. I'm not going to spend my time contributing to a sub-Reddit if it's the kind of place that is shitty to people I'm friends with. No thanks.

dasil003 11y ago
> That's an assumption. Based on no data. Yes it is, in fact it is more than just an assumption, it is my thesis. Also you seem to be using "no data" as a pejorative, but I challenge you to produce any data on this topic period. Some things are intractable or at the very least incredibly expensive to conduct good science around, and if you refuse to consider a topic without data you will be paralyzed. Like the OA I have been participating in online communities for a very long time (ran my first BBS starting in 1988), so I have a pretty strong sense of how they live and die. One of the things I've learned is that what people say they will do in the face of some future changes correlates terribly with what they actually end up doing when said change is put into effect. Therefore, the last thing I would do is throw a grenade into my community in the hopes of attracting you and your friends who are put off by the current state of affairs.
MBCook 11y ago
I've really enjoyed a ton of my time on Reddit, and I'm not ready to jump ship yet. But if I were to find out about it recently? Knowing what's happened in the last year (or even few months) I would certainly stay away.

MBCook 11y ago

> I really don't get how you are taking that from what I said. It seemed to me that you were suggesting that shedding users is bad for Reddit. I think shedding a very small select percentage of the users could be a huge benefit for the site. Remove some of the worst who don't add anything positive to the site and make an example out of them. Draw the line in the sand clear and bold. That will get rid of some of the worst elements, and encourage others to behave better. I'm sure you'll lose people at first but in the long run I think it would benefit the site and its growth.

snogglethorpe 11y ago
One problem is that the current kerfuffle is likely to have the opposite effect: they'll shed "good" users, and keep the douchenozzles... ><

darreld 11y ago

Any 'nudging' that is like the recent banning FPH is the same as a white sword to a sizable, at least vocal, segment of the community. I agree with the article that management is in a pretty bad spot. I've been on Reddit for years but I now notice that a lot of it seems to have a 'bad neighborhood' feel. I'm not sure it has a long life as a desirable destination.

mavhc 11y ago
My proposed solution is: move any subreddit you (The owners of the site) deem to be full of assholes to a different set of servers, that aren't free to use. If you want to be in a group full of assholes, you have to pay. Now you've split reddit into the normal people and the assholes, and they'll either have to pay, or stop being assholes and beg you to take them back.