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The reason you're "astounded" by all these comments may have to do with the fact that you seem to rather limited awareness of the basic history regarding Greece

The reason you're "astounded" by all these comments may have to do with the fact that you seem to rather limited awareness of the basic history regarding Greece's current situation. For example, there's no mention at all in your remarks about the well-known shenanigans that led to Greece joining the Eurozone (and camouflaging its debts) in the first place (with the connivance of certain large foreign banks). Or of the naked arrogance and condescending, hoof-in-mouth verbiage we've been treated to by certain foreign leaders (like Angela Merkel) in recent months. Just simply: "look at those Greeks -- they're irresponsible, they're overspending, and now they're looking for another handout", basically.

tptacek 11y ago
As opposed to "look at those Germans, they're terrorists who are using control of the ECB to extort a regime change in Greece", which is an equally hyperbolic message --- and, in contrast the to the summary you've provided, actually a message overtly sent by Greece's leadership.
- liebknecht 11y ago
  Except that Varoufakis was referring the Troika (or rather, their actions: he used the word "terrorism", not the more loaded term "terrorist") when he said that, not to the Germans as a people (or even to German banks, or their politicians). At no point in the El Mundo article did he call the Germans "terrorists", and -- worse than hyperbolic -- it's irresponsible for you to suggest that he did.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    The troika includes Germany. My impression of Germany's role in the troika ("Germany is the backbone of obduracy in the troika") could be wrong. Is it? Here's what Varoufakis said: What they’re doing with Greece has a name — terrorism [...] Why did they force us to close the banks? To instill fear in people. And spreading fear is called terrorism. My point, of course, is that these were both hyperbolic arguments.
    - MaysonL 11y ago
      Try substituting the term "fear-monger" for "terrorist". Reads substantially less hyperbolic…
    - scrollaway 11y ago
      Varoufakis did not speak English when he said that. He said: "αυτό που κάνουν (οι πιστωτές) στην Ελλάδα έχει ένα όνομα: τρομοκρατία" In greek, τρομοκρατία is a much less loaded term than "terrorism", even though it translates the same way. It's more "terror campaign".
      - peterfirefly 11y ago
        That isn't really any better, is it?
        scrollaway 11y ago
        It has very different implications. In english speaking countries, "terrorism" / "terrorists" have become a placeholder for "really really bad guys who can't be reasoned with who want to steal our freedom and kill our children", thanks to US propaganda. The word "terrorism" in its more original form is ruling by fear and it can mean many things, such as being given power because the population is afraid of what you might do if you don't get what you want. "Terorrism", by contrast, is a massively politically loaded word for a completely black & white "good vs evil" world.
        peterfirefly 11y ago
        I can assure you that the word terrorism in English hasn't changed its meaning substantially in the last 20 years or due to US propaganda. It had the same meaning 30+ years ago when I started learning the language. I know bloody well what the original meaning of "terror" was (you translate lots of sentences about terror and tyrants when you start studying Latin). The shift in meaning in English from the Latin meaning to the current meaning happened a long time ago. I can also inform you that I just tried googling "tromokratia" (which google and/or chromium helpfully offered to transliterate into proper Greek). I got all the expected hits for the current English/German/etc meaning. The Wikipedia page lists all the usual greatest hits: Lockerbie, Timothy McVeigh, 9/11, London, Madrid. There is no hint what so ever that the usual or even just non-obscure meaning would be "fear-monger", as MaysonL suggested. I think Varoufakis /meant/ terrorism and some people are backpedaling for him...
kochthesecond 11y ago
This is what it looks like from the other side. What do you mean was responsible with how the country was run?
- atmosx 11y ago
  To enforce a justice estate, what the 'troika' is basically asking is to bring back the same corrupted government(s) to deal with. Greece needs the equivallent of Marshall plan. The troika wants to keep the Greek oligarchy in power and does everything in their power to keep the current status quo. So generally speaking, what the troika did was destroy a heavely indebted country instead of actually helping. The Siemens scandal (google it please I'm too bored to write another summary) and Christoforako's case (Varoufakis talked about this with Scheuble) shows the real problem: Greece has it's issues of course, but the troika was never about helping, it was more about exploiting all along.
tedunangst 11y ago
You make it sound like Greece's debt was camouflaged against its will.

tptacek 11y ago

As opposed to "look at those Germans, they're terrorists who are using control of the ECB to extort a regime change in Greece", which is an equally hyperbolic message --- and, in contrast the to the summary you've provided, actually a message overtly sent by Greece's leadership.

liebknecht 11y ago
Except that Varoufakis was referring the Troika (or rather, their actions: he used the word "terrorism", not the more loaded term "terrorist") when he said that, not to the Germans as a people (or even to German banks, or their politicians). At no point in the El Mundo article did he call the Germans "terrorists", and -- worse than hyperbolic -- it's irresponsible for you to suggest that he did.
- tptacek 11y ago
  The troika includes Germany. My impression of Germany's role in the troika ("Germany is the backbone of obduracy in the troika") could be wrong. Is it? Here's what Varoufakis said: What they’re doing with Greece has a name — terrorism [...] Why did they force us to close the banks? To instill fear in people. And spreading fear is called terrorism. My point, of course, is that these were both hyperbolic arguments.
  - MaysonL 11y ago
    Try substituting the term "fear-monger" for "terrorist". Reads substantially less hyperbolic…
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    Varoufakis did not speak English when he said that. He said: "αυτό που κάνουν (οι πιστωτές) στην Ελλάδα έχει ένα όνομα: τρομοκρατία" In greek, τρομοκρατία is a much less loaded term than "terrorism", even though it translates the same way. It's more "terror campaign".
    - peterfirefly 11y ago
      That isn't really any better, is it?
      - scrollaway 11y ago
        It has very different implications. In english speaking countries, "terrorism" / "terrorists" have become a placeholder for "really really bad guys who can't be reasoned with who want to steal our freedom and kill our children", thanks to US propaganda. The word "terrorism" in its more original form is ruling by fear and it can mean many things, such as being given power because the population is afraid of what you might do if you don't get what you want. "Terorrism", by contrast, is a massively politically loaded word for a completely black & white "good vs evil" world.
        peterfirefly 11y ago
        I can assure you that the word terrorism in English hasn't changed its meaning substantially in the last 20 years or due to US propaganda. It had the same meaning 30+ years ago when I started learning the language. I know bloody well what the original meaning of "terror" was (you translate lots of sentences about terror and tyrants when you start studying Latin). The shift in meaning in English from the Latin meaning to the current meaning happened a long time ago. I can also inform you that I just tried googling "tromokratia" (which google and/or chromium helpfully offered to transliterate into proper Greek). I got all the expected hits for the current English/German/etc meaning. The Wikipedia page lists all the usual greatest hits: Lockerbie, Timothy McVeigh, 9/11, London, Madrid. There is no hint what so ever that the usual or even just non-obscure meaning would be "fear-monger", as MaysonL suggested. I think Varoufakis /meant/ terrorism and some people are backpedaling for him...

kochthesecond 11y ago

This is what it looks like from the other side. What do you mean was responsible with how the country was run?

atmosx 11y ago
To enforce a justice estate, what the 'troika' is basically asking is to bring back the same corrupted government(s) to deal with. Greece needs the equivallent of Marshall plan. The troika wants to keep the Greek oligarchy in power and does everything in their power to keep the current status quo. So generally speaking, what the troika did was destroy a heavely indebted country instead of actually helping. The Siemens scandal (google it please I'm too bored to write another summary) and Christoforako's case (Varoufakis talked about this with Scheuble) shows the real problem: Greece has it's issues of course, but the troika was never about helping, it was more about exploiting all along.

tedunangst 11y ago

You make it sound like Greece's debt was camouflaged against its will.