4 ms·

Here is a fairly detailed rundown of the situation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/05/7-key-things-to-know-about-greeces-debt-crisis/

by dmckeon 11y ago

Here is a fairly detailed rundown of the situation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/05/7-key-things-to-know-about-greeces-debt-crisis/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/05/7...

tosseraccount 11y ago
The uncollected tax receipts graphic is shocking: 89%. No wonder they can't afford their spending.
- nailer 11y ago
  Greece needs to get their house in order: the stats on tax avoidance are huge. There was a greek restauranteur on the BBC earlier complaining that due to the ATM shutdown he couldn't pay his suppliers, even though he had the money, since they preferred cash. In the UK you wouldn't dare say that about your business on TV. However that's a generational change: Greece can't and won't be fast enough to do this and will never be able to meet it's creditors. Greece shouldn't have been admitted into the Euro in the early 2000s, this is now the result of that unwise decision.
  - quonn 11y ago
    True, but let's keep in mind that they managed a primary surplus despite this huge tax avoidance. This actually should make everyone bullish on Greece: These are not insurmountable problems. I still think that ΣΥΡΙΖΑ is the first party ever that would be fully willing to implement the right reforms (e.g. collecting taxes, etc.) if - and only if - the EU gives Greece a future by restructuring debt. It makes me sad to observe that the so-called institutions let this opportunity pass for stupid reasons (As far as I can tell, the fear of the German/French parties of their electorate and the fear of the established parties in the 'periphery' of newcomers like Podemos). It was the best shot we had to make real progress in Greece, imho.
    - sigzero 11y ago
      I doubt very much anyone is going to be bullish on Greece. They lent Greece money on the condition they stop deficit spending and guess what, Greece didn't do it.
      - quonn 11y ago
        They did and it has destroyed their economy. That's the whole problem.
  - joezydeco 11y ago
    From reading on about how Greeks avoid taxes pretty publicly and blatently[1], this is more than a generational issue. It seems like it's buried deep in the culture now. "A 32-year-old chef in Athens says his income taxes are automatically deducted from his monthly paychecks. But every time he buys something and is given an option to pay less if he doesn’t ask for a receipt, he says yes." [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-struggles-to-get-citizens-to-pay-their-taxes-1424867495 http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-struggles-to-get-citizens...
    - nailer 11y ago
      In Italy they have Finance Police: when you buy something, you MUST hold onto the receipt until a few hundred meters away from the store. Some Italians may be able to shed more light, as I've only ever seen them operate in Rome and never in Florence or Venice.
- Vaskerville 11y ago
  I have a few friends in Greece who will do anything to avoid paying taxes. Sadly, they think Greece will be the next Iceland and it's just not the right comparison.
- dmckeon 11y ago
  It turns out that the 89% relates to the total of taxes uncollected over previous years, which most other countries would have written off as uncollectable debt. As of 2010, Greece collected annual taxes equal to about "34% of the country's total gross domestic product (GDP) - slightly below the EU average of 38.5%." from: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33479946 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33479946
sgt101 11y ago
Really interesting that this is presenting the vote as Greece taking control of its own future. In fact I think that the people voting no believe that they will be rescued as the result of the vote. I do not think that they are correct.

by dmckeon 11y ago

tosseraccount 11y ago

The uncollected tax receipts graphic is shocking: 89%. No wonder they can't afford their spending.

nailer 11y ago
Greece needs to get their house in order: the stats on tax avoidance are huge. There was a greek restauranteur on the BBC earlier complaining that due to the ATM shutdown he couldn't pay his suppliers, even though he had the money, since they preferred cash. In the UK you wouldn't dare say that about your business on TV. However that's a generational change: Greece can't and won't be fast enough to do this and will never be able to meet it's creditors. Greece shouldn't have been admitted into the Euro in the early 2000s, this is now the result of that unwise decision.
- quonn 11y ago
  True, but let's keep in mind that they managed a primary surplus despite this huge tax avoidance. This actually should make everyone bullish on Greece: These are not insurmountable problems. I still think that ΣΥΡΙΖΑ is the first party ever that would be fully willing to implement the right reforms (e.g. collecting taxes, etc.) if - and only if - the EU gives Greece a future by restructuring debt. It makes me sad to observe that the so-called institutions let this opportunity pass for stupid reasons (As far as I can tell, the fear of the German/French parties of their electorate and the fear of the established parties in the 'periphery' of newcomers like Podemos). It was the best shot we had to make real progress in Greece, imho.
  - sigzero 11y ago
    I doubt very much anyone is going to be bullish on Greece. They lent Greece money on the condition they stop deficit spending and guess what, Greece didn't do it.
    - quonn 11y ago
      They did and it has destroyed their economy. That's the whole problem.
- joezydeco 11y ago
  From reading on about how Greeks avoid taxes pretty publicly and blatently[1], this is more than a generational issue. It seems like it's buried deep in the culture now. "A 32-year-old chef in Athens says his income taxes are automatically deducted from his monthly paychecks. But every time he buys something and is given an option to pay less if he doesn’t ask for a receipt, he says yes." [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-struggles-to-get-citizens-to-pay-their-taxes-1424867495 http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-struggles-to-get-citizens...
  - nailer 11y ago
    In Italy they have Finance Police: when you buy something, you MUST hold onto the receipt until a few hundred meters away from the store. Some Italians may be able to shed more light, as I've only ever seen them operate in Rome and never in Florence or Venice.
Vaskerville 11y ago
I have a few friends in Greece who will do anything to avoid paying taxes. Sadly, they think Greece will be the next Iceland and it's just not the right comparison.
dmckeon 11y ago
It turns out that the 89% relates to the total of taxes uncollected over previous years, which most other countries would have written off as uncollectable debt. As of 2010, Greece collected annual taxes equal to about "34% of the country's total gross domestic product (GDP) - slightly below the EU average of 38.5%." from: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33479946 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33479946

sgt101 11y ago

Really interesting that this is presenting the vote as Greece taking control of its own future. In fact I think that the people voting no believe that they will be rescued as the result of the vote. I do not think that they are correct.