6 ms·

I'm amazed at how often the defence story in these cases, "He had a stellar, 15-year career with the DEA except for this one blip.", is accepted at face value.

I'm amazed at how often the defence story in these cases, "He had a stellar, 15-year career with the DEA except for this one blip.", is accepted at face value. I imagine a smart, experienced, undercover DEA agent would be very difficult to catch breaking the law.

Zigurd 11y ago
What are the odds that he decides his first and last heist is multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars of bitcoin? I'd bet anyone dinner this asshole has been stealing from drug busts routinely for years.
- ars 11y ago
  If he's smart the odds are pretty good. The "best" type of crime you do just once and never again, and if you do a crime once you might as well make it a lucrative one.
  - Zigurd 11y ago
    How many such "unicorn" crimes exist in the real world? Many more criminals started small time and got bigger.
    - ars 11y ago
      Very few. That's exactly why it's so hard to catch, which is why I called it the "best" type. The smarter the criminal the more likely he is to engage in this type. Most criminals are pretty stupid.
tedunangst 11y ago
There are only two kinds of criminals. The "long history of violence and trouble" type and the "honors student with a lapse in judgement" type. Same thing whenever somebody goes on a shooting rampage. All the neighbors either say "I always knew there was something strange with that boy" or they say "I can't believe it, he was such a sweet kid".
- drcode 11y ago
  Either it will rain today OR it will not rain today.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    Either it will monsoon, or it will be clear skies and low humidity. No chance of fog, drizzle, or showers.
  - wolfgke 11y ago
    The law of excluded middle does not hold in intuitionistic logic: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_logic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_logic
- clarkmoody 11y ago
  You forgot the third kind: the "victim of society, circumstances, and discrimination who had no choice but to break the law" /snark
eli 11y ago
I don't think that is a defense argument so much as a plea for leniency.
- fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
  Judges seem to eat it up.
stephengillie 11y ago
> "He had a stellar, 15-year career of taking bribes and withholding assets from the DEA, and had flawless execution except for this one blip." FTFTFA I expect that this agent has been a bad apple for some time, and has only recently got lazy, or maybe technology was better than he thought it was.
- amelius 11y ago
  bad apple, or simply corrupted?
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    He probably didn't start off corrupted, but found no real reason to be noble years ago and got disillusioned.
- fapjacks 11y ago
  He almost certainly was just too lazy or too stupid. I don't mean unintelligent here. I mean that he didn't give it enough thought, either because he is lazy, or because he didn't know he should have been more careful. The technology those people use isn't magic, and for someone on the inside, it is completely trivial to circumvent. It can't have just been a matter of misjudging the technological capabilities of his peers. And I completely agree that he has probably been dirty for years and years and only recently got caught. People are either dirty, or they're not. I have a very hard time believing that people can slowly become dirty cops over time. That kind of moral compass is hard to recalibrate outside of some kind of psychological trauma. I mean, based purely on anecdotal evidence, of course.
fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
Near where I live we have a police chief who was sentenced to ~five years in prison back in 2005. >> "U.S. District Judge Ewing Werlein told Sam Jimmie Mann, 64, that he imposed a sentence at the lower end of the sentencing guidelines because of Mann's long record of good conduct before his crimes." Which is a laughable farce because: The crimes he was found guilty of occurred continuously over three years. They were investigated a number of times and were infamous for being one of the worst speed-traps in the state going back two decades. >> "That town has been known as a speed trap for 20-plus years and this county doesn't need a speed trap. And the county doesn't need the liability associated with this type of contract," Wright says. Wright was a local sheriff, and a former Texas Ranger who had previously investigated Mann but was unable to make a good criminal case against him. >> "Mann and Davis ran what prosecutors called their "own private toll road," on a section of U.S. 59 in Kendleton, a town of about 500 about 40 miles southwest of Houston, between November 1997 and May 2000." To translate, they were stopping motorists, writing bogus tickets, using fake warrants, threatening arrest, demanding cash, taking any cash they found, and keeping some of it for themselves. They were IRL brigands. http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/archives/sheriff-sticks-to-his-guns-no-contract-with-kendleton/article_80a81b18-32a9-5658-b25d-f057bc59def9.html http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/archives/sheriff-sticks-to-hi... http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Kendleton-s-ex-police-commissioner-sentenced-1521158.php http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Kendleton-s-... > I imagine a smart, experienced, undercover DEA agent would be very difficult to catch breaking the law. I imagine so, especially if you don't look too hard.
angrybits 11y ago
Looking through the number of steps he took in this endeavor, this doesn't seem like a blip. More like..a sustained lack of integrity.
hsod 11y ago
What makes you think it's accepted at face value? This guy is facing 20 years
- Ensorceled 11y ago
  The fact that BBC quoted it without comment, or prosecution rebuttal, in a section subtitled "Stellar career". Also, since there was a plea agreement (see the section subtitled "Plea agreement") it's highly unlikely he'll get 20 years.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  He'll be let off. Hell, they'll probably figure out a way for him to keep the BTC and get promoted for his honourable service.

Zigurd 11y ago

What are the odds that he decides his first and last heist is multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars of bitcoin? I'd bet anyone dinner this asshole has been stealing from drug busts routinely for years.

ars 11y ago
If he's smart the odds are pretty good. The "best" type of crime you do just once and never again, and if you do a crime once you might as well make it a lucrative one.
- Zigurd 11y ago
  How many such "unicorn" crimes exist in the real world? Many more criminals started small time and got bigger.
  - ars 11y ago
    Very few. That's exactly why it's so hard to catch, which is why I called it the "best" type. The smarter the criminal the more likely he is to engage in this type. Most criminals are pretty stupid.

tedunangst 11y ago

There are only two kinds of criminals. The "long history of violence and trouble" type and the "honors student with a lapse in judgement" type. Same thing whenever somebody goes on a shooting rampage. All the neighbors either say "I always knew there was something strange with that boy" or they say "I can't believe it, he was such a sweet kid".

drcode 11y ago
Either it will rain today OR it will not rain today.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- stephengillie 11y ago
  Either it will monsoon, or it will be clear skies and low humidity. No chance of fog, drizzle, or showers.
- wolfgke 11y ago
  The law of excluded middle does not hold in intuitionistic logic: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_logic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuitionistic_logic
clarkmoody 11y ago
You forgot the third kind: the "victim of society, circumstances, and discrimination who had no choice but to break the law" /snark

eli 11y ago

I don't think that is a defense argument so much as a plea for leniency.

fnordfnordfnord 11y ago
Judges seem to eat it up.

stephengillie 11y ago

> "He had a stellar, 15-year career of taking bribes and withholding assets from the DEA, and had flawless execution except for this one blip." FTFTFA I expect that this agent has been a bad apple for some time, and has only recently got lazy, or maybe technology was better than he thought it was.

amelius 11y ago
bad apple, or simply corrupted?
- stephengillie 11y ago
  He probably didn't start off corrupted, but found no real reason to be noble years ago and got disillusioned.
fapjacks 11y ago
He almost certainly was just too lazy or too stupid. I don't mean unintelligent here. I mean that he didn't give it enough thought, either because he is lazy, or because he didn't know he should have been more careful. The technology those people use isn't magic, and for someone on the inside, it is completely trivial to circumvent. It can't have just been a matter of misjudging the technological capabilities of his peers. And I completely agree that he has probably been dirty for years and years and only recently got caught. People are either dirty, or they're not. I have a very hard time believing that people can slowly become dirty cops over time. That kind of moral compass is hard to recalibrate outside of some kind of psychological trauma. I mean, based purely on anecdotal evidence, of course.

fnordfnordfnord 11y ago

Near where I live we have a police chief who was sentenced to ~five years in prison back in 2005. >> "U.S. District Judge Ewing Werlein told Sam Jimmie Mann, 64, that he imposed a sentence at the lower end of the sentencing guidelines because of Mann's long record of good conduct before his crimes." Which is a laughable farce because: The crimes he was found guilty of occurred continuously over three years. They were investigated a number of times and were infamous for being one of the worst speed-traps in the state going back two decades. >> "That town has been known as a speed trap for 20-plus years and this county doesn't need a speed trap. And the county doesn't need the liability associated with this type of contract," Wright says. Wright was a local sheriff, and a former Texas Ranger who had previously investigated Mann but was unable to make a good criminal case against him. >> "Mann and Davis ran what prosecutors called their "own private toll road," on a section of U.S. 59 in Kendleton, a town of about 500 about 40 miles southwest of Houston, between November 1997 and May 2000." To translate, they were stopping motorists, writing bogus tickets, using fake warrants, threatening arrest, demanding cash, taking any cash they found, and keeping some of it for themselves. They were IRL brigands. http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/archives/sheriff-sticks-to-his-guns-no-contract-with-kendleton/article_80a81b18-32a9-5658-b25d-f057bc59def9.html http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/archives/sheriff-sticks-to-hi... http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Kendleton-s-ex-police-commissioner-sentenced-1521158.php http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Kendleton-s-... > I imagine a smart, experienced, undercover DEA agent would be very difficult to catch breaking the law. I imagine so, especially if you don't look too hard.

angrybits 11y ago

Looking through the number of steps he took in this endeavor, this doesn't seem like a blip. More like..a sustained lack of integrity.

hsod 11y ago

What makes you think it's accepted at face value? This guy is facing 20 years

Ensorceled 11y ago
The fact that BBC quoted it without comment, or prosecution rebuttal, in a section subtitled "Stellar career". Also, since there was a plea agreement (see the section subtitled "Plea agreement") it's highly unlikely he'll get 20 years.
madaxe_again 11y ago
He'll be let off. Hell, they'll probably figure out a way for him to keep the BTC and get promoted for his honourable service.