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I bet the IP TechCrunch owns is simply the brand "CrunchPad." Good luck with that suit. Fusion Garage's story is infinitely more believable than Arrington's. A

I bet the IP TechCrunch owns is simply the brand "CrunchPad." Good luck with that suit. Fusion Garage's story is infinitely more believable than Arrington's. After both sides have spoken, I imagine it went down like this: They show him their OS in hopes of getting press and subsequent funding. Arrington loves the idea and wants in on the concept. Fusion Garage goes and actually builds the thing. Meetings take place with Fusion Garage probably passively hoping for funding through Arrington's connections and Arrington monopolizing the conversation with "product ideas" that are more pie-in-the-sky thinking than actual engineering. In the meantime, tablet fever grips the nation and a Fusion Garage with a working prototype has no trouble scoring VC meetings. They probably had to fight off the cash being thrown at them. Suddenly they don't need Arrington and those that actually came through with funding demand they end the charade of him being a participant. All they have to do is come up with a new name (Joojoo? Come on...) What remains to be seen is how TC's audience will react. The idea that Arrington apparently tried to glom onto the project with no engineering contributions perfectly fits the tropes discussed on HN: MBA-types make a buck off the back of those who actually built the thing. I wonder if this tale will actually hurt his rep? Who here will approach TC and Arrington differently after today?

mpk 17y ago
I have only the foggiest idea of what's going on here (this is a tablet PC running a web OS, right?), but this whole thing smacks of desperation. ChromeOS just went public, Apple may or may not do some tablet thing, Arrington is somehow involved and seems to be acting like an ass again, etc. I think someone pushed the panic button and said something along the lines of 'we go live now or the whole thing is dead!' All-in-all not a good way to start. My magic eight-ball tells me this project is doomed.
ryanwaggoner 17y ago
The idea that Arrington apparently tried to glom onto the project with no engineering contributions perfectly fits the tropes discussed on HN: MBA-types make a buck off the back of those who actually built the thing. The fact that you already have so many upvotes just perfectly illustrates how so many people still don't get that sales and marketing are just as important to product success as engineering. Maybe more. Characterizing Arrington's involvement as an attempt to "glom onto the project with no engineering contributions" is both unwarranted idle speculation and irrelevant, as there are many other contributions to be made beyond just engineering.
- sjs382 17y ago
  TechCrunch has already given the project tons of visibility. Maybe they just needed an initial press push. I guess we'll see...
  - wvenable 17y ago
    TechCrunch is a technology blog, they give lots of products visibility. You're not going to claim they own everything they report on? They own the name Crunchpad, but this product isn't the Crunchpad. If they had a business relationship, they should have had a contract. One that locks this product into using the Crunchpad name. But they (apparently) did not.
    - sjs382 17y ago
      > You're not going to claim they own everything they report on? I made no such claim. What I meant was that TechCrunch's job is pretty much done from Fusion Garage's perspective. They're in the press.
      - wvenable 17y ago
        If they never had any prior involvement with TechCrunch, they'd still be in the press. On Engadget just as they are now. Hell, they'd probably be on TechCrunch too. The difference is, the press might be a little more positive that it is now with this big mess.
        sjs382 17y ago
        Engadget wouldnt have been doing a "Press Conference Live Blog" if it weren't for the TechCrunch scandal.
        cakesy 17y ago
        Maybe not, but they still would have been reporting on a new table, whether it was positive reporting or not remains to be seen.
wvenable 17y ago
The lack of contracts seems to indicate that Fusion Garage's story is more accurate. It's entirely possible that the original idea, however, was Arrington's and that Fusion Garage simply decided to build it. However, Arrington says that they contributed IP to the project -- I wonder what that is supposed to be.
- hristov 17y ago
  The original idea is something everyone had the moment they saw the first iPhone.
  - rbanffy 17y ago
    Actually, it's an idea I had when I first saw a Newton...
  - dhimes 17y ago
    Nah, a phone that you need two hands to use? When I can use the magic wheel of a blackberry and do everything with one hand? Preposterous. It'll never sell.
  - dunk010 17y ago
    It's not really "original" though is it, it's the natural conclusion that everyone's coming to.
  - scythe 17y ago
    What about the Nintendo DS?
mechanical_fish 17y ago
infinitely more believable than Arrington's Well, no doubt many people are happy to assume that the person holding the soldering iron is automatically the one who is right. I will make no such assumption; "infinitely" is more than a little strong. ;) All I will say is: What a lose-lose situation.
- tptacek 17y ago
  He has two really compelling pieces of (alleged) evidence: a new working piece of hardware and the fact that there were no written contracts. That doesn't get them out of the woods legally, but if all TC has is incriminating snippets of email, it does make them more credible than TC.
  - ryanwaggoner 17y ago
    The existence of the device is hardly evidence of who was responsible for creating it. The claim in question is that Arrington and crew contributed nothing to the piece of hardware in question. Michael Arrington could have built the entire thing by himself in his basement and the situation from our perspective would be the same as long as FG could get ahold of one of the devices.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      I got the impression from Arrington's own writing that Fusion Garage was primarily responsible for the nuts-and-bolts tech.
- jeromec 17y ago
  > Well, no doubt many people are happy to assume that the person holding the soldering iron is automatically the one who is right. I can't believe how many are making that assumption. I had been reading TechCrunch for years before the day I saw Arrington post the original hypothesis for the CrunchPad. In fact, I can probably look up my comments on Google encouraging his going forward, and suggesting features. I'm blown away at how off track this has turned out. Unfortunately, if he didn't handle the legal stuff he has to take the turmoil I guess.
hristov 17y ago
I agree. When reading those Arrington articles, it was obvious that he had no technical contribution to the thing. That being said, Fusion Garage really fell on their face. The only thing they needed to do is come up with a name better than crunch pad, which should not have been too hard. And they come up with joojoo??? Ouch.
maudineormsby 17y ago
If Arrington is spouting off and doesn't have contracts in hand, he's severely hurt the credibility of FusionGarage among their core market for the product. A countersuit might be in order.
dskhatri 17y ago
I'm honestly really surprised (and a little appalled) at the number of upvotes your comment has received. There's a mob-like response whenever a story comes up about MA or TechCrunch. As far as I can tell, Fusion Garage's response (from this Engadget article) is hearsay as well.
- tptacek 17y ago
  FG's claims are more easy to refute than TC's. FG says they did virtually all the technical work and they signed no contracts. Easily refuted claims are more credible than vague ones.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  > I'm honestly really surprised (and a little appalled) at the number of upvotes your comment has received. Me too, considering it's basically an attack on Mike Arrington based on an imaginary situation where Arrington/Techcrunch do things the author dislikes so he can paint him in a bad light. It's no more worthy of upvotes than: "I imagine Mike Arrington met the CEO of Fusion Garage and kicked his children in the face. Isn't he a horrible person?"
  - codexon 17y ago
    I'm not surprised. The last time this lawsuit came up on HN, people were saying how Arrington was arrogant and they said that parts of the story probably weren't being mentioned.
    - mpk 17y ago
      Given enough exposure, everyone looks like a dick.
uuilly 17y ago
Engineering is not the only story here. They got a lot of attention that they never would have gotten w/o the biggest name in tech news singing their praises from his bully pulpit. Imagine the uphill battle these guys would face trying to sell what is essentially a new computer on its merits alone. It seems to me the FusionGarage people have gotten what they need from Arrington; attention. Now that he is no longer useful he's been sidelined. Kind of a Machiavellian move, since no lawsuit can undo the press they got. Arrington was using them and they were using Arrington. Which, in the end, is the nature of all business relationships.
michaelneale 17y ago
I have no idea about the whole mess, but I think the statement "techcrunch is just a blog" would probably resonate with a lot of people and actually get them sympathy. I do think the TechCrunch PR and marketing probably could have made it better, but perhaps there is a bit much credit and attention given to the louder mouths then is deserved. In any case, interesting to watch, and a device like this for that price point would be awesome if anyone can pull it off.
prabodh 17y ago
http://twitter.com/arrington/status/6442811004 http://twitter.com/arrington/status/6442811004 "There aren't any more CrunchPad posts coming from us. It's all in the lawyers hands now." This is what Arrington/TC had to say....
bl4k 17y ago
this guy would be talking to a wall if it wasn't for Techcrunch. He would have never been able to raise any money either, since most of Asia won't talk to him and certainly nobody in Singapore does since he burnt his last startup in much the same way. This guy is a complete scammer and has a track record of doing exactly this. Watching HN people take his side after watching his video spin and not knowing anything else about him is just sick.
- codexon 17y ago
  Do you have any links for information about his last startup? I would like to see it.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - KWD 17y ago
    Here is a link to an article that provides the name of the company, Radixs Pte Ltd: http://www.e27.sg/2009/12/03/who-really-killed-the-crunchpad/ http://www.e27.sg/2009/12/03/who-really-killed-the-crunchpad... If you go to this article in the comments you can see one related to the folding of that company: http://blogs.todayonline.com/techtalk/2009/01/fusion-garage-and-the-techcrunch-tablet/ http://blogs.todayonline.com/techtalk/2009/01/fusion-garage-... The Radixs site is now a parked domain. I did not have time to do more searching for information about the company.
wheels 17y ago
Significant missing detail: there seems to have been disagreement on the pricing, with Arrington presumably wanting a lower margin product that was closer to his original vision. This seems to be the thing that Fusion Garage's investors balked at.
bl4k 17y ago
definitely. I mean both HP and Apple have engineers, but I could never figure out what makes Apple better - please explain? Since the argument is that it is all engineers and 'lines of code', that means that it comes down to who writes the code, right? Which explains why Apple is so great, or maybe not. The sooner you wake up to what marketing really is the better

mpk 17y ago

I have only the foggiest idea of what's going on here (this is a tablet PC running a web OS, right?), but this whole thing smacks of desperation. ChromeOS just went public, Apple may or may not do some tablet thing, Arrington is somehow involved and seems to be acting like an ass again, etc. I think someone pushed the panic button and said something along the lines of 'we go live now or the whole thing is dead!' All-in-all not a good way to start. My magic eight-ball tells me this project is doomed.

ryanwaggoner 17y ago

The idea that Arrington apparently tried to glom onto the project with no engineering contributions perfectly fits the tropes discussed on HN: MBA-types make a buck off the back of those who actually built the thing. The fact that you already have so many upvotes just perfectly illustrates how so many people still don't get that sales and marketing are just as important to product success as engineering. Maybe more. Characterizing Arrington's involvement as an attempt to "glom onto the project with no engineering contributions" is both unwarranted idle speculation and irrelevant, as there are many other contributions to be made beyond just engineering.

sjs382 17y ago
TechCrunch has already given the project tons of visibility. Maybe they just needed an initial press push. I guess we'll see...
- wvenable 17y ago
  TechCrunch is a technology blog, they give lots of products visibility. You're not going to claim they own everything they report on? They own the name Crunchpad, but this product isn't the Crunchpad. If they had a business relationship, they should have had a contract. One that locks this product into using the Crunchpad name. But they (apparently) did not.
  - sjs382 17y ago
    > You're not going to claim they own everything they report on? I made no such claim. What I meant was that TechCrunch's job is pretty much done from Fusion Garage's perspective. They're in the press.
    - wvenable 17y ago
      If they never had any prior involvement with TechCrunch, they'd still be in the press. On Engadget just as they are now. Hell, they'd probably be on TechCrunch too. The difference is, the press might be a little more positive that it is now with this big mess.
      - sjs382 17y ago
        Engadget wouldnt have been doing a "Press Conference Live Blog" if it weren't for the TechCrunch scandal.
        cakesy 17y ago
        Maybe not, but they still would have been reporting on a new table, whether it was positive reporting or not remains to be seen.

wvenable 17y ago

The lack of contracts seems to indicate that Fusion Garage's story is more accurate. It's entirely possible that the original idea, however, was Arrington's and that Fusion Garage simply decided to build it. However, Arrington says that they contributed IP to the project -- I wonder what that is supposed to be.

hristov 17y ago
The original idea is something everyone had the moment they saw the first iPhone.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  Actually, it's an idea I had when I first saw a Newton...
- dhimes 17y ago
  Nah, a phone that you need two hands to use? When I can use the magic wheel of a blackberry and do everything with one hand? Preposterous. It'll never sell.
- dunk010 17y ago
  It's not really "original" though is it, it's the natural conclusion that everyone's coming to.
- scythe 17y ago
  What about the Nintendo DS?

mechanical_fish 17y ago

infinitely more believable than Arrington's Well, no doubt many people are happy to assume that the person holding the soldering iron is automatically the one who is right. I will make no such assumption; "infinitely" is more than a little strong. ;) All I will say is: What a lose-lose situation.

tptacek 17y ago
He has two really compelling pieces of (alleged) evidence: a new working piece of hardware and the fact that there were no written contracts. That doesn't get them out of the woods legally, but if all TC has is incriminating snippets of email, it does make them more credible than TC.
- ryanwaggoner 17y ago
  The existence of the device is hardly evidence of who was responsible for creating it. The claim in question is that Arrington and crew contributed nothing to the piece of hardware in question. Michael Arrington could have built the entire thing by himself in his basement and the situation from our perspective would be the same as long as FG could get ahold of one of the devices.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    I got the impression from Arrington's own writing that Fusion Garage was primarily responsible for the nuts-and-bolts tech.
jeromec 17y ago
> Well, no doubt many people are happy to assume that the person holding the soldering iron is automatically the one who is right. I can't believe how many are making that assumption. I had been reading TechCrunch for years before the day I saw Arrington post the original hypothesis for the CrunchPad. In fact, I can probably look up my comments on Google encouraging his going forward, and suggesting features. I'm blown away at how off track this has turned out. Unfortunately, if he didn't handle the legal stuff he has to take the turmoil I guess.

hristov 17y ago

I agree. When reading those Arrington articles, it was obvious that he had no technical contribution to the thing. That being said, Fusion Garage really fell on their face. The only thing they needed to do is come up with a name better than crunch pad, which should not have been too hard. And they come up with joojoo??? Ouch.

maudineormsby 17y ago

If Arrington is spouting off and doesn't have contracts in hand, he's severely hurt the credibility of FusionGarage among their core market for the product. A countersuit might be in order.

dskhatri 17y ago

I'm honestly really surprised (and a little appalled) at the number of upvotes your comment has received. There's a mob-like response whenever a story comes up about MA or TechCrunch. As far as I can tell, Fusion Garage's response (from this Engadget article) is hearsay as well.

tptacek 17y ago
FG's claims are more easy to refute than TC's. FG says they did virtually all the technical work and they signed no contracts. Easily refuted claims are more credible than vague ones.
jodrellblank 17y ago
> I'm honestly really surprised (and a little appalled) at the number of upvotes your comment has received. Me too, considering it's basically an attack on Mike Arrington based on an imaginary situation where Arrington/Techcrunch do things the author dislikes so he can paint him in a bad light. It's no more worthy of upvotes than: "I imagine Mike Arrington met the CEO of Fusion Garage and kicked his children in the face. Isn't he a horrible person?"
- codexon 17y ago
  I'm not surprised. The last time this lawsuit came up on HN, people were saying how Arrington was arrogant and they said that parts of the story probably weren't being mentioned.
  - mpk 17y ago
    Given enough exposure, everyone looks like a dick.

uuilly 17y ago

Engineering is not the only story here. They got a lot of attention that they never would have gotten w/o the biggest name in tech news singing their praises from his bully pulpit. Imagine the uphill battle these guys would face trying to sell what is essentially a new computer on its merits alone. It seems to me the FusionGarage people have gotten what they need from Arrington; attention. Now that he is no longer useful he's been sidelined. Kind of a Machiavellian move, since no lawsuit can undo the press they got. Arrington was using them and they were using Arrington. Which, in the end, is the nature of all business relationships.

michaelneale 17y ago

I have no idea about the whole mess, but I think the statement "techcrunch is just a blog" would probably resonate with a lot of people and actually get them sympathy. I do think the TechCrunch PR and marketing probably could have made it better, but perhaps there is a bit much credit and attention given to the louder mouths then is deserved. In any case, interesting to watch, and a device like this for that price point would be awesome if anyone can pull it off.

prabodh 17y ago

http://twitter.com/arrington/status/6442811004 http://twitter.com/arrington/status/6442811004 "There aren't any more CrunchPad posts coming from us. It's all in the lawyers hands now." This is what Arrington/TC had to say....

bl4k 17y ago

this guy would be talking to a wall if it wasn't for Techcrunch. He would have never been able to raise any money either, since most of Asia won't talk to him and certainly nobody in Singapore does since he burnt his last startup in much the same way. This guy is a complete scammer and has a track record of doing exactly this. Watching HN people take his side after watching his video spin and not knowing anything else about him is just sick.

codexon 17y ago
Do you have any links for information about his last startup? I would like to see it.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- KWD 17y ago
  Here is a link to an article that provides the name of the company, Radixs Pte Ltd: http://www.e27.sg/2009/12/03/who-really-killed-the-crunchpad/ http://www.e27.sg/2009/12/03/who-really-killed-the-crunchpad... If you go to this article in the comments you can see one related to the folding of that company: http://blogs.todayonline.com/techtalk/2009/01/fusion-garage-and-the-techcrunch-tablet/ http://blogs.todayonline.com/techtalk/2009/01/fusion-garage-... The Radixs site is now a parked domain. I did not have time to do more searching for information about the company.

wheels 17y ago

Significant missing detail: there seems to have been disagreement on the pricing, with Arrington presumably wanting a lower margin product that was closer to his original vision. This seems to be the thing that Fusion Garage's investors balked at.

bl4k 17y ago

definitely. I mean both HP and Apple have engineers, but I could never figure out what makes Apple better - please explain? Since the argument is that it is all engineers and 'lines of code', that means that it comes down to who writes the code, right? Which explains why Apple is so great, or maybe not. The sooner you wake up to what marketing really is the better