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There is a parallel, but it is shallow. The author keeps pointing out the differences between the fantasy of Tolkien and the mythology within ISIS, and the more
by krig 11y ago
There is a parallel, but it is shallow. The author keeps pointing out the differences between the fantasy of Tolkien and the mythology within ISIS, and the more you think about it, the less the comparison holds. Religion, from the outside, is no different than any other romantic fiction. Does that mean that all romantic fiction and religion is essentially the same? I think that is a very shallow analysis.
You could draw similar parallels to any narrative which inspires actions that seem mad from the outside. The christian right of the US has the apocalyptic narrative of the Rapture, just waiting for the right circumstances to blow into the same kind of fanatic destruction as that of ISIS.
There is an allure in pointing to the mythology as the inspiration for some misdeed as if that may provide some insight, but I don't think so. The simple fact is that it doesn't take much to inspire us humans into doing things that seem unthinkable to others. Just about any fiction can inspire just about any deed. Mark Chapman shot Lennon after reading The Catcher in the Rye. Yes, perhaps it says something about the nature of humanity. But then what?
From the outside, any of these narratives seem like cosplay, like play acting. Just look at Manson or Waco, for example. The fiction is always ridiculous. The acts are real, though.
"A lot of people like cosplay." Everyone, apparently.
- api 11y agoI think the author is talking more 'meta' than this, about the dark side of the deep human desires and archetypes that these stories tap into. It goes far beyond the near-universal story template of the 'return of the king.' That's just one permutation. What it's really all about is the need for meaning and significance to one's life. There's a light side too. The human need for transcendent, powerful, meaningful motives can inspire amazing achievements. One of my favorite modern crusades-in-the-making is the colonize Mars crowd. I could see it drawing its appeal from much the same psychological basis as ISIS, but channeling that energy in a much more interesting and productive route. I can also imagine the soul searching articles of future Bourgeois critics: "why would upper middle class young people with promising futures give it all up to go try to settle a desolate, airless, radiation-bathed desert and likely die in the process?" Yet I predict they would, and in far greater numbers than we see joining ISIS. The need for meaning and significance can drive people to do the near-impossible and inspire us all, or it can drive them to take a gun and shoot up a school or go join a death cult. I personally suspect we'll see the latter in proportion to the absence of the former. One thing this author doesn't really address is how the appeal of ISIS (and other smaller-scale episodes of apocalyptic-nihilistic violence) is rooted in the banality of our culture, and what we might do about that. We spend an amazing amount of time and energy on worthless bullshit, and an equally amazing amount of energy convincing ourselves it's important.
- krig 11y agoWell, I think your thoughts on the dark side of human desire and how it relates to fiction are very close to my own. I don't think the article is even close to probing those questions. The article is just drawing a very lazy comparison but not digging any deeper than that, insinuating that there's something specifically about this kind of "return of the king"-narrative that can inspire something like ISIS. I think that's turning the cause and effect backwards, and it's shallow. It's the "dark side of the deep human desires" as you say that inspires these fictions, not vice versa.
- api 11y agoIt's a little shallow but not wrong. It definitely got me thinking in that direction, and it's a great deconstruction.
- worklogin 11y agoIf you are insinuating that the radical Christian right is waiting for a moment to commit the same actions as ISIS, then I believe your are completely incorrect. They're crazy, and they expect more violence and chaos to break out, but being familiar as I am with some people who have the Rapture belief you allude to, I guarantee you there isn't a desire to commit violence against masses of innocent people. They /THINK/ violence will be committed, by Satan, against non-believers, but they will not act on it. Which means it won't happen.
- krig 11y agoNo, that is not what I am insinuating. Your reading of my comment is as shallow as the article. I am insinuating that this ability to absorb a narrative and act on it, disregarding the well-being of other human beings, is innate in all humans. The Rapture narrative is only one example. I gave others. I can give another that may appeal more to someone who identifies as right-wing: Communism is a narrative, a romantic fiction, that led to horrible outcomes for innumerable people. To believe that "they will not act on it" is a factual statement is horribly naive. People "act on it" all the time!
- worklogin 11y ago> The christian right of the US has the apocalyptic narrative of the Rapture, just waiting for the right circumstances to blow into the same kind of fanatic destruction as that of ISIS. You literally say the Christian right is waiting for the right time to commit acts like ISIS.
- rrss1122 11y agoDo you truly believe that the "Christian right" is just a specific set of circumstances away from turning as destructive as ISIS? If you do, then you are more of a lunatic than you think Christians are.
- krig 11y agoI believe ANYONE of us is just a specific set of circumstances away from turning as destructive as ISIS. History proves it. I won't say more to avoid invoking Godwin's law.
- BerislavLopac 11y agoThere is no need for Godwin -- we saw that firsthand in the wars in former Yugoslavia, where many previously normal people turned (seemingly inexplicably) cruel and destructive.